Erekat to Haaretz: New proposal more generous than deal we offered Olmert

[Jefferson23]

Chief PA negotiator denies reports the U.S. administration threatened sanctions against the PA if Abbas did not agree to direct talks with Israel.

By Avi Issacharoff and Yanir Yagna

The Palestinian Authority has submitted a far-reaching peace proposal to the Obama administration that is more generous to Israel than the demands presented by Mahmoud Abbas to former prime minister Ehud Olmert, the chief PA negotiator told Haaretz on Saturday.

Saeb Erekat also said the PA's detailed offer would end the conflict with Israel and resolve all Palestinian claims.

"I presented Senator George Mitchell with a series of official documents," Erekat said, referring to the special U.S. envoy to the Middle East. "We gave him maps and papers that clearly state our positions on all the final-status issues: borders, Jerusalem, refugees, water and security. Thus far we have not received any answer from the Israeli side."

When asked if the Palestinian positions were similar to those presented during talks with Olmert, Erekat replied: "It's more than that. I cannot go into details on what exactly was proposed, but Abu Mazen offered more in these documents than what he proposed to Olmert in the past. Abu Mazen took bigger steps to reach peace."

remainder: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/erekat-to-haaretz-new-proposal-more-generous-than-deal-we-offered-olmert-1.305196

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. It will be interesting to see what was offerred when it leaks

Both sides always include poison pills in otherwise potentially fruitful proposals.

[Chulanowa]

2. Yes, it will

As for poison pills... well, you can't expect better when you only let one side of the negotiations have any power. There've never really been "negotiations" between these two, just terms of surrender tied up with a pretty ribbon.

Here's hoping the PA hasn't pulled an Arafat and fucked itself over with a smile on its face :shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. PA has in the past demanded a land bridge between Gaza and the West Bank

They have also asked for the equivalent of open borders for purposes of civilian health care and transportion. None of the above will happen in the next decade and the land bridge is a unprecedented non-starter.

[Chulanowa]

4. What?! They wanted the ability to travel to the other part of their country?!?!

THOSE FUCKING UNDERHANDED BASTARDS!!!!

:eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

LOLZ!

The even funnier thing is that there would actually be DUers who'd think that way...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Take a look at India and Pakistan before there was Bangladesh

Its not a case of want...both sides want a lot from the other...its what precedent and international law requires. No requirement for a sovereign nation to allow transit via its air/land, though there is the right of innocent passage on the high seas which is obviously not applicable here.

[Chulanowa]

9. You're comparing India and Israel?

You know that the distance between Pakistan and Bangladesh is literally a hundred times greater than the distance between Gaza and the west bank, and coveres a hugely more difficult terrain, right?

At any rate, you are aware that Israel actually agreed to this idea when it signed onto Oslo II, right?

of course, this would entail a "sovereign nation" actually holding a treaty it signed with "tribals" as being a valid agreement. Israel's no better at that than the United States has been. :shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Its quite analogous under international law and is the clear precedent.

As for safe passage it is in Annex 1 article X. However, also in Annex 1, but in Article IX Section d, there is this:
The provisions of this Agreement shall not prejudice Israel's right, for security and safety considerations, to close the crossing points to Israel and to prohibit or limit the entry into Israel of persons and of vehicles from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Which allowed Israel to close that link at any time at their sole discretion.

Safe passage is also not all that did not get implemented and Oslo II is basically OBE at this point. Also a different situation 15 years later with hardliners in power in Israel and Gaza that make the PA look reasonable. A

Not sure why you denigrate the PA by calling them tribals...its not like either side is going to fully abide by what is signed. Just look at Oslo II. :shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

11. According to which international law expert? Or is that merely yr personal opinion?

Not sure why you denigrate the PA by calling them tribals...

It seemed very clear that Chul was using that as the way the Israeli govt views the PA, not how Chul sees the PA. Hope that helps you with a clearer understanding of what yr reading...

[Chulanowa]

12. As VC pointed out...

I used the term "Tribals" to illustrate how Israel views them. Thus the quote marks. I happen to see remarkable parallels between the Palestinians and my own people.

And yes, I know that Oslo II is belly-up (along with the original Oslo). Just pointing out that Israel did agree to the notion.

At any rate. Hopefully the PA hasn't done its familiar belly-crawl. The Palestinians need leaders with spines.

[Igel]

14. Wouldn't that impose the same unreasonable restriction on Israel?

I mean, unless they each form two portions that come together at a single point and have two roads that overlap without meeting (think overpass), one country or the other is going to be cut in two.

It's just a question of how impassable the other's territory is.

The best--the only--answer to this is the same that Switzerland and Luxembourg have worked out. You stay on good relations with your neighbors so that you're allowed out of your territory.

This is also the solution to the nasty wandering borders and many, many other problems. Other nations manage to pull it off. In fact, Israel managed to pull off something very similar to it in the '90s.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Not really

Israel is geographically contiguous, under the various two state solutions the PA is not. Settlements in the west bank muddy that somewhat.

It safe passage might have worked in the mid 90s, but the changes in leadership on all sides make its going forward today very doubtful. Gaza by itself is not viable as a state, and its not clear the West Bank is either, which does not help matters.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Why are you trying to tell anyone what will or won't happen?

Yr not a negotiator and I'm not sure why me pointing that out led to my post being deleted.maybe I should have said 'maybe in yr bizarro world' as the mods don't delete posts where duers say that.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Now that I'm not so busy, I'll go into a bit more detail...

The problem with insisting that one side or the other won't do this or won't do that is that none of us, and that includes you, have any inside knowledge of what goes on in the Israeli govt or the PA. The problem with a 'supporter' of either 'side' insisting one side or the other won't do this or won't do that is that in order to reach a peaceful resolution to the conflict that's fair to both Palestinians and Israelis is that compromise is going to have to happen on BOTH sides. I've noticed that it's generally the people who insist that Israel won't do something (mainly because they themselves don't want Israel to do it) are the same people that insist that the Palestinians are the ones that have to compromise.

Of course nearly everyone at DU would acknowledge that the Israeli govt isn't interested in peace at all and that it won't compromise at all. That doesn't mean it shouln't, however, nor does it mean that any of us should find it acceptable. If the Israeli govt was interested in the peace and safety of Israelis and even Palestinians, it would compromise and compromise to resolve the conflict fairly...

[polly7]

15. +1000 nt.

[aranthus]

6. When and what?

When did the PA make the offer?

[Violet_Crumble]

7. It sounds like it's been made recently...

I'd be guessing that'd be in the past few months. As to the what, I guess it's going to be like other 'offers' where us lowly types that aren't in the inner circle can only guess based on what we read in the media...

[shira]

13. Can't wait to see what was offered. N/T