Gaza flotilla captain: Activists prepared attack against IDF raid

[shira]

The captain שמג כןרדא צשאק of the Mavi Marmara, the ship which led the Gaza flotilla raided by Israel Defense Forces special forces last week, had attempted to prevent premeditated violent clashes between activists and the Israeli military, evidence released Friday showed.

Late last month, Israeli commandos rappelled onto the deck of one of the ships trying to break Israel's three-year-old blockade of Gaza. The soldiers were intercepted by a crowd of activists, setting off a clash that killed nine men - eight Turks and a Turkish American.

Israel says its soldiers began shooting only after a mob of pro-Palestinian activists attacked them - a version backed up by video footage released by the army. But the activists and their supporters say Israeli commandos needlessly opened fire.

According to the clip, released by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, the ship's captain Mehmut Tuval had attempted to prevent a violent altercation by disposing of metal bars and chains IHH activists had cut ahead of the IDF takeover.

more...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-flotilla-captain-activists-prepared-attack-against-idf-raid-1.295591

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[B Whale]

12. you posted a link about this the

other day and i watched it twice and couldn;t see anyone chanting death to jews.

could you post it again please, because i sincerely couldn;t see it, and if it is true would like to see it!

[Barack_America]

2. IDF "takeover" = first move of aggression, first "attack".

Sorry, Shira, but you can't attack someone who isn't there. And those commandos had no business being on that ship in international waters.

That is the most important fact, and is one Israel will never be able to explain away. Unless, of course, the IDF wants to work on creating "proof" that their ships and soldiers were drawn to the Mavi Marmara against their will by giant magnets.

[shira]

3. Nothing illegal about boarding a belligerant blockade running ship in Int'l waters

1. The Marmara had no humanitarian aid on it.

http://www.israelpolitik.org/2010/06/10/no-aid-found-on-turkish-vessel-mavi-marmara/

2. The Marmara made its intentions known prior to the IDF raid that it intended to break a legal blockade. And according to the Marmara Captain, they were arming themselves WELL in advance and very likely would have attacked the IDF in Israel/Gaza waters.


If Iran or Turkey sent warships toward Gaza, Israel would have every right to intercept them in Int'l waters, and not have to wait.

[ConsAreLiars]

14. Holy Crap on a Disinfo Stick! How insane can you be?

Well, that has been answered often enough before, but this utterly delusional claim in addition to your usual bloodthirsty lying gibberish is a new high score on that scale:

"1. The Marmara had no humanitarian aid on it."

????

!!!!

And still you get allowed here.

???????

[shira]

16. Aid on other ships, not the Marmara. How many other sources do you need to confirm that?

[EFerrari]

23. The Mavi Marmara had 10k tons of humanitarian aid on board.

Better watch it, shira. You're putting yourself in the position of claiming that Hamas won't take delivery of aid that was never sent.

LOL

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Not true.

Would you care to prove it? The convoy had 10k Tons of aid, not that ship.

[EFerrari]

29. I think you're wrong.

Mavi Marmara Ship Sent Off To Palestine with Prayers
Mavi Marmara ship has been sent off with prayers from Sarayburnu Harbor in Istanbul which will sail on to Palestine together with its 750 passengers to break the embargo and will deliver 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid cargo to the people of Gaza.

http://www.mazlumder.org/ing/haber_detay.asp?haberID=118

Mavi Marmara Set Sail To Palestine

snip

Mavi Marmara carries 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid cargo including medicines, medical supplies, prefabricated homes, children’s playgrounds, cement, iron bar…etc.
http://www.ihh.org.tr/mavi-marmara-filistin-e-dogru-yola-cikti/en/

Do you have different information? I'd like to see it. Of course to claim that she didn't carry humanitarian aid at all is ridiculous, like most of what shira posts here.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Think what you like, but you are incorrect.

For over four years, Israel has subjected the civilian population of Gaza to an increasingly severe blockade, resulting in a man-made humanitarian catastrophe of epic proportions. Earlier this month, John Ging, the Director of Operations of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) in Gaza, called upon the international community to break the siege on the Gaza Strip by sending ships loaded with humanitarian aid. This weekend, 9 civilian boats carrying 700 human rights workers from 40 countries and 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid will attempt to do just that: break through the Israel's illegal military blockade on the Gaza Strip in non-violent direct action. In response, the Israeli government has threatened to send out 'half' of its Naval forces to violently stop our flotilla, and they have engaged in a deceitful campaign of misinformation regarding our mission.

http://www.freegaza.org/en/home/56-news/1174-israels-disinformation-campaign-against-the-gaza-freedom-flotilla

On board
• 700 to 800 peace activists and MPs from more than 40 countries

• 10,000 tonnes of supplies, including:

• Cement

• Generators

• Water purification equipment

• 20 tonnes of paper for schools

• Prefabricated homes

• $1m (£700,000) of medical equipment, including: CAT scanners' wheelchairs, crutches

• A complete dental surgery, including drills and a chair

• Sports equipment, including footballs and basketballs

• Crayons and pens

• Chocolate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/25/gaza-flotilla-aid-attempt

I assume both of these sources will meet your criteria for "truth."

[EFerrari]

32. Neither gives the disposition of the cargo. I'm willing to be wrong

but I'd like to see clearly that I am. Thanks.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. Your claim: The Mavi Marmara had 10k tons of humanitarian aid on board.

EFerrari (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-13-10 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. The Mavi Marmara had 10k tons of humanitarian aid on board.
Better watch it, shira. You're putting yourself in the position of claiming that Hamas won't take delivery of aid that was never sent.

LOL

The above PROVES you are wrong! Even if the Mavi Marmara had humanitarian aid, it wasn't what YOU claimed. The aid was distributed between 9 ships, probably less as only three were cargo ships, the others were passengers ships with limited cargo space. So, clearly, you are wrong. You're welcome.

[EFerrari]

34. Nope. The sources I quote say specifically that the Marmara

held that cargo.

Your sources did not specify any vessel at all. That isn't the same as showing what the MM held or didn't hold.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. I figured you wouldn't accept you were wrong.

Facts be damned. You calimed that ship held the ENTIRE contents of the ENTIRE flotilla as described ON THEIR SITE! If you stick to your claim, then not another single ship carried aid! "FreeGaza" declared the amount of aid being taken. You are now claiming it was all on one ship!

[EFerrari]

38. I posted links to the information I had. Do you have links

to a distribution of that cargo?

It's not a matter of "accepting" anything. It's a matter of verifying. Can you do that? You haven't so far.

Regardless, shira's hateful claim that the Mavi Marmara didn't carry humanitarian aid is flat wrong. I don't see your stake in defending such a patently absurd, not to mention malicious, claim.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. You need a basic course in logic.

You claimed: The Mavi Marmara had 10k tons of humanitarian aid on board.

I PROVED, using the creators of the flotilla, the TOTAL amount of aid was 10K tons. It doesn't show how it was distributed, your claim was wrong! The Mavi Marmara isn't even a cargo ship, there were three of them, it was not of them.

"shira's hateful claim that the Mavi Marmara didn't carry humanitarian aid is flat wrong."

Interesting...yet you can't prove the distribution either and yet still claim shira's "hateful claim" is wrong.

Basic logic: the creators of the flotilla claim they are sending 10K tons of aid, they have three cargo ships of which the Mavi Marmara is not. It is easy to deduce that the Mavi Marmara DID NOT carry the ENTIRE aid cargo as you claimed.

Edit to add missing word.

[EFerrari]

60. Nope. You haven't "proved" anything. You put up two links

that don't say what you say they say. See above.

lol

[Behind the Aegis]

62. Nervous?

Is it because you can't admit you are wrong, you get the giggles? How sad for you. You were wrong and misapplied logic...actually, you didn't even use it.

[ConsAreLiars]

27. CNN once (only, so far as I know) ran some footage of the of the ripped open cartons

and wheelchairs tossed into piles as if they were just junk and all the rest. No weapons. Nothing that any sane person would regard as anything but humanitarian aid.

The massacre was intended to send a warning and an assertion of the invincible might of those who rule them, just as in in the case of the murders of those who protest the land grabs on the West Bank, or the slaughter of thousands in Gaza and Lebanon. That mindset is suicidal, and those who encourage it do far more damage to the long term interests, down to the life and death level, of the Jews in Israel than any number of thousands of random rockets fired from Gaza.

If you cared about the Jews in Israel as much as you hate the Palestinians for having resisted being forced from their homes, you could see this.

[EFerrari]

30. What I found looking for hard numbers is a bunch of stories

at right wing nut sites that claimed, much as shira does, that the Mavi Marmara didn't carry humanitarian aid but weapons.

Of course, that's wrong. lol

[ConsAreLiars]

35. Tea Baggers and Nutters can (and will) scream insanely on whatever topic that pushes their button.

Facts don't matter to them. Such facts are produced by some diabolical, commie, nazi, liberal, progressive, secular, humanist, anti-corporatist plot.

(edit near misses on the keyboard)

[EFerrari]

36. Yep. I need to go make dinner. You have a good night, my friend.

[shira]

44. Are we debating what the aid was, or whether any was on the Marmara?

Reports are that the aid included expired medicine up to a year old, as well as old worn and tattered shoes and clothes with holes in them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x323685#323703

Regardless, Hamas isn't allowing any of this in to Gaza. You need to consider from their twisted POV that the tunnel industry is big money to them so "free aid" does Hamas no good when they can't "tax" that aid.

[elias7]

17. Actually, those claims are verifiable

Let's have a discussion, not a fight

[EFerrari]

24. No, they are not beause they are not true. Try it for yourself.

I did.

[shira]

43. It's verifiable. Here's one link...

http://missingpeace.eu/_download/MP-00008-EN-20100609_humanitarian-aid-on-the-flotilla.html

[elias7]

46. Here's more

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Special_Analysis_Fauxtography_-_Reuters_Caught_Again.asp

http://www.haaretz.com:80/print-edition/news/report-40-ihh-activists-on-mavi-marmara-planned-violent-resistance-1.295233

http://jnarvey.com/2010/06/10/no-humanitarian-aid-on-mavi-marmara/

http://middle-east-analysis.blogspot.com/2010/06/report-no-humanitarian-aid-on.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137997

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azurnoir]

50. We do not accept anty ProIsrael sources with a history

of bias and distortion Jewish sources as you claim have nothing to do with it

[shira]

51. Bias is one thing, but unless you have evidence of distortion you can't just assert it by fiat.

Besides, it doesn't appear to stop you that articles from your favorite sources, blogs, etc... are typically biased and extremely distorted.

[azurnoir]

54. Lol nice try doesn't wash well though

I do not use sources that have reputation of PalWatch, IDFnaDesk, MEMRI and your absolute favoritest CAMERA I do use Maan, Haaretz and JPost normally

[shira]

56. How does PMW or MEMRI distort when all they do is translate media articles/video?

As for CAMERA, can you point to even one article in CAMERA's history that was distorted or deliberately false?

I'll wait...

[azurnoir]

55. oops I have used EI in one comment recently n/t

[EFerrari]

59. Those all resolve to the Ministry of Propaganda.

Do you have an independent source or is that all you read?

[Noshlag71]

11. Boarding in international waters is legal

Boarding a ship headed for a belligerent territory is perfectly legal under United Nations laws of Maritime actions. <http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1862#peace> read under the Blockade and the Interception of the Flotilla.

[Wizard777]

4. Footage smuggled out of Israel shows that passengers were shot BEFORE the IDF boarded.

[shira]

5. And the IDF just rappelled down into mobs with only paintball guns after shooting passengers?

Where's this conclusive footage, BTW?

[Wizard777]

6. They had more than paint ball guns. I'm sorry but their real guns didn't suddenly materialize on dec...

It was a preplanned violent assault by the IDF.

[JoDog]

8. The guns

The larger, rifle-style weapons the IDF had were paintball guns. However, they were carrying their sidearms (handguns) with lethal ammunition. This is standard operating procedure for both the IDF's Unit 13 and police/military units around the world when in a crowd-control scenario. Use the nonlethal weapons first, switch to the sidearms if the situation goes hot.

[Wizard777]

9. Yes but when you have the Commando's killing people before they board the ship.

Wouldn't it be both rational and reasonable to assume the boarding party is a continuation of that slaughter?

[shira]

10. there's no credible evidence for that claim

[Wizard777]

13. Sure there is. The new video's show people on board wounded by bullets before the IDF boarded.

Hell they hadn't even pulled up next to the ship yet. The helicopters came after that.

[Dick Dastardly]

15. The video shows nothing of the sort.

[Wizard777]

18. Oh okay. Then Isreal's video doesn't show passengers attacking the IDF.

It's really doesn't. It show passengers DEFENDING themselves from an IDF onslaught. Also once that ship was "captured." The Third Geneva Convention comes into force. They are POW's. They also violated the living hell out of that too.

[EFerrari]

25. Yes, it does. Additionally, we have multiple independent accounts

that the IDF shot and killed at least two people before boots were on deck.

[shira]

42. Where's this video footage? Link please?

[jayfish]

21. If That's The Video I'm Thinking Of...

you can also hear automatic weapons fire. A far cry from paintball guns. There are wounded being tended to before the IDF has control of the ship. You can see wounded being moved just as the helicopter shows up and the first IDF boarders repel on to the deck.

FSH

[shira]

7. 'Israel freed top terrorists caught on flotilla'

'Israel freed top terrorists caught on flotilla'

Intelligence community enraged by decision to release chief Hamas fundraiser and Syrian official serving as liaison officer for Iranian intelligence, who were captured onboard Turkish-owned ship. 'Why did they let this asset go while Gilad Shalit is still in captivity?' defense official asks

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3903640,00.html

[B Whale]

19. probablu because he wasn;t a terrorist

i knew israeli forces were useless but i didn;t think they were completely fucking useless!!!

Not even the article says he's a terrorist.

by the way shira, i've asked you numerous times, can you re-post the video where aid activists were singing death to jews please, cos on the one you posted last time thbey weren't (asw far as i could see) Thanks

[shira]

20. starts 20 seconds in...

http://www.memri.org/flotilla/

[hayu_lol]

22. Interesting clip of different viewpoints...

After the 'sing along with Mitch' start,

Woman calls for Gaza or Martyrdom. Repeats herself over and over.

Yemeni Dr of Islamic Law(on board ship)calls repeatedly for martyrdom and resistance. Even if you resist only so long as you can milk a she-camel you will go to paradise...and on and on from there. Even if all you have is fingernails...resist. Become Martyrs. Fight etc etc.

Palestinian Sheik in Lebanon calls for resistance and martyrdom. Storm the Israeli Embassy in Cairo. Take the 'spy Ambassador' and his workers hostage(sounds like Iran a few years ago). Surround and attack other embassies in other countries and use the captured people as bargaining chips.

The goal of this 'flotilla' was to break the legal blockade at Gaza. That of course echoes the words of the organizer of Free Gaza...the California organization.

Resist. Fight. Die. Become a Martyr. Go to Paradise.

Interesting bunch of peaceful humanitarians.

[EFerrari]

26. Nine people are dead and six are still missing.

None of them are IDF.

People can do the math if you can't.

[shira]

40. so if 5-10 IDF died, then there wouldn't be all this condemnation of Israel?

[elias7]

48. All were IHH activists, kept separate from the others

http://www.haaretz.com:80/print-edition/news/report-40-ihh-activists-on-mavi-marmara-planned-violent-resistance-1.295233

"...most of the 500 passengers who boarded ship in Anatolia were humanitarian activists and volunteers who underwent a security check before boarding. However another group of some 40 IHH activists had boarded the ship earlier in Istanbul and had kept themselves separate from the other passengers throughout the journey."

Can you say Trojan Horse?

[EFerrari]

58. Can you say "utter bs"? If these people wanted to kill Israelis

they had at least 3 easy opportunities. Instead, they protected injured troops and gave them medical care.

The IDF, however, let wounded activists bleed to death.

Compare and contrast.

[B Whale]

45. That's the same as last one. Nowhere does anyone sing 'death to jews!'

They sing "Khaybar khaybar, oh jews the armies of muhammed will return"

The battle of khaybar was a famous battle that muhammed himself took part in and i believe was a rallying song from the palestinian intifada.

Ok, so i think probably inappropriate and maybe even distasteful, although some might disagree, but this seems more like a rallying cry than anything else. As an englishmen we often sing (not me personally) "onward christian soldiers...Marching as to war" This is direct reference to slaughtering jews and muslims in the crusades. Again, i think deeply distasteful but we are not talking about killing people...

I think if you'd been more accurate, you could have made your point more forcefully, but no-one in that video chants "Death to Jews"

(but thanks for reposting for me...)

[shira]

52. Would it be just inappropriate and distasteful for Poles and Germans to sing songs taunting Jews

....while recalling pogroms, death camps, the army of Hitler returning,.....?

"Death to Jews" isn't really implied there either, right?

[B Whale]

57. sorry, you just wrote people are singing 'Death to Jews" and they aren't.

as i said you could have made your point more forcefully if you'd reported what was said accurately.

Being disingenuous doesn;t help your case.

...and i think you've really let yourself down by comparing the unique horror of the holocaust with mohammed and what aid activists were singing, who, after the battle of khaybur, i believe encouraged jews to remain in the city. It is simply nowhere near similar!!!!

...anyway, regardless of getting bogged down in history i think its an insult to the memory of those killed for you to invoke their memory to trying and force a point that you know is weak!

i think you've let yourself down a bit there...

[EFerrari]

61. I'm glad you posted this because no one that I asked to translate for me

has gotten back to me.

I suspected as much because of shira's posting habits.

[B Whale]

63. yeah. Nowhere in that clip do the sing "death to jews', they simply don;t

the battle they refer to was from the 7th century and was sung during the first palestinian intifada, whatever people's opinion of singing such a song, i even if people find it distasteful, it is song of vistory and struggle, not prescribing killing of anyone.

i remember singing onwards christian soldiers, as a child. this refers to the mass killing of muslims during the crusades, however is such an historic song, it simply has no potency related to that at all, otherwise why get sunday school children to sing it...

...and on this judgement, some of the songs the young IDF soldiers sing before battle are equal to this.....ditto british troops.

[Raksha]

65. That is NOT an analogy you want to use, Shira!

Re >>Would it be just inappropriate and distasteful for Poles and Germans to sing songs taunting Jews ...while recalling pogroms, death camps, the army of Hitler returning,.....?<<

Yes, that would be inappropriate and distasteful. Almost as inappropriate and distasteful as that infamous "We Con the World" video mocking the deaths of the Turkish activists. You know, the one the Israeli propaganda machine had to claim was released "by accident" when the rest of the world including most American Jews were outraged by it.

I understand that most Israelis still think that "satire" is funny and can't understand why it backfired with everyone else.

Bad, bad analogy. I guess you just weren't thinking it through this time.

[shira]

41. German News Video on Flotilla and IHH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCGeKuyc_c&feature=player_embedded

[elias7]

49. A Trojan Horse...

A trap is the only narrative that makes sense here.

[shira]

53. If the IHH is somewhat responsible, that's a PR win for Israel

Israel must be 100% responsible for the deliberate execution/murder of bonafide peace activists.

Anything that puts Israel in a better light is best ignored and is nothing but zionist propaganda.

No one is interested in the IHH or the government of Turkey's role in this. The delegitimization of Israel is top priority.

[hayu_lol]

64. Actually, that the deaths were limited to only 9 activists...

indicates that the IDF was a highly-trained and disciplined force and did their job well under very trying conditions.

Before you all erupt in protest, please consider for a moment what mayhem those 'activists' would have accomplished had they been armed with the same weapons:

I suggest that instead of 9 dead, the carnage would be over 200. That ship was crowded with mostly humanitarian workers trying to accomplish their goals of getting aid to Gaza. Among them were people actually seeking a quick passage to Paradise. Their purpose was to break a legal blockade and nothing more.

Note that on the other ships of the 'fleet,' the humanitarians calmly became visible, sat in place and were quiet. They did not mob the bridge area, the actual target of the IDF to insure control of each ship.

The woman in the film record kept repeating: "GAZA or Martyrdom." The Palestinian-based Doctor of Islamic Law, in his long repetitive speech to the cameras, kept calling for the people to be martyrs...to resist, even with fingernails. To fight.
He didn't sound like a Humanitarian.

That ship was crowded. All passengers should have remained in their rooms, or in public areas, seated and quiet. Last thing any of them should have done was lay hands on the IDF. That is just plain common sense.

Lastly, why were there so many activists on the bridge? They should have not been there.