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It is time for Israel's friends to condemn its acts of terrorism

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:38 PM
Original message
It is time for Israel's friends to condemn its acts of terrorism
By and large a one-dimensional approach has characterised our approach to understanding the phenomenon of terrorism. However, the recent gruesome killing of a Hamas figure, Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, in Dubai should make us cast our net wider to focus also on state terrorism.

The Dubai police have claimed with almost undisputed evidence that the Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad, was behind the killing. Israel has as usual maintained a policy of ambiguity by neither confirming nor denying Mossad's actions, although some of its political leaders, specifically the Opposition Leader, Tzipi Livni, have applauded the killing on the grounds that Mabhouh was a terrorist and deserved to be eliminated.

If it is proved beyond doubt that Mossad agents, using forged passports in the names of British, French, Irish, German and Australian citizens, perpetrated the act, the killing clearly underlines a very disturbing aspect of Israeli behaviour.

It constitutes a blatant act of state terrorism, which places Israel in a position parallel to the very forces that it has unfailingly condemned as terrorist groups or networks.

This is not the first time, and may not be the last time, that a state has engaged in such operations. In the case of Israel specifically, it has historically never shied away from targeting those it has regarded as either acting violently against it or violently threatening it. In this, it has never made a distinction between those perpetrating violence for the sake of violence and those who have sought to defend themselves against Israel or to free themselves from Israel's territorial-strategic expansion and physical subjugation.

Amin Saikal is professor of political science and director of the Centre for Arab and Islamic Studies (the Middle East and Central Asia) at the Australian National University.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/it-is-time-for-israels-friends-to-condemn-its-acts-of-terrorism-20100228-pb2n.html

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let me see the links condemning Arab acts of terrorism from this professor.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I am still waiting for Dubai to quit with the proclamations and show some real evidence
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 03:09 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
The numbers of people purportedly involve continue to increase, but all that has been released are some (possibly not all) passport photos and limited surveillance video. Not denying Israeli involvement, its quite probable at some level, but Dubai needs to lay more things out in public.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. It looks more like a casino robbery, doesn't it?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. Indeed, Oceans 23 and climbing
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. My tv news said they had 2 dozen in custody.
Not merely identified, in custody. So who are they?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. First I have heard about custody...have a link or more data?
THe entire affair is sufficiently salacious that I would have thought it would have been covered broadly if that had happened
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Terrorism, loosely described today as the killing of civilians, has been committed by both sides.
By its usual definition, terrorism is a political act, such as the Munich killing of Israeli athletes intended to get recognition of the Palestinian cause. These days it subsumes the killing of civilians for any reason, even when only retaliation is involved. In fact, I believe it was the US that took to redefine terrorism in a way that involves a wider definition of motivations. Here are some earlier definitions.

Wikipedia

Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by nations or groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals. As a type of unconventional warfare, terrorism means to weaken or supplant existing political landscapes through capitulation, acquiescence, or radicalization, as opposed to subversion or direct military action. Wikipedia

Free Dictionary

terrorism - the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

Proposed Definitions of Terrorism

1. League of Nations Convention (1937):

"All criminal acts directed against a State and intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons or a group of persons or the general public".

2. UN Resolution language (1999):

criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other nature that may be invoked to justify them". (GA Res. 51/210 Measures to eliminate international terrorism)
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Since Al-Mabhouh was a senior Hamas military commander
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 04:13 PM by hack89
and a founder of the Al-Qassam Brigades he is not a civilian, is he?

Killing him might be questionable but it was not terrorism - if you asked him, I bet he would say he was soldier engaged in war against Israel.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. As the intentional killing of civilians, Gaza was a prime example of state terrorism.
There seems to be an illusion about that if the killing of a civilian is committed by someone dressed in a military uniform, it cannot be terrorism. That is false. Israel intentionally bombed and shelled the homes of civilians in Gaza in 2006 as well as in 2008, and Israeli soldiers have purposely shot their rifles into Palestinian neighborhoods in both the West Bank and Gaza at other times (Soldiers of Conscience reports).
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. x 1000!
chirping crickets...

besides - who's CONTINUING these acts of terrorism - it isn't the Israelis...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. really I guess that depends on ones defination of terror n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
43. and who is continuing a cruel, brutal military occupation over millions of people?
Edited on Mon Mar-01-10 12:54 AM by Douglas Carpenter
it sure isn't the Palestinians. Who is continuing to steal land and carving up the occupied territories, and expand, expand and expand and are making absolutely certain that a two-state solution is a physical impossibility? It sure isn't the Palestinians. Who has promised that they weill, never-ever withdraw any settlers - ever - and that they will never again halt their settler-colonial expansion? It sure isn't the Palestinians.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1


“ there is no Palestinian state, even though the Israelis speak of one.” Instead, he said, “there will be a settler state and a Palestinian built-up area, divided into three sectors, cut by fingers of Israeli settlement and connected only by narrow roads."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/world/middleeast/11road.html?_r=14&pagewanted=2&ei=5070&en=22948d4799a34065&ex=1187496000&emc=eta1&oref


.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. The "Mossad agents" fled into Iran and are unavailable for comment.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. vanished as though
they never really existed, except as a diversion
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Iran? Dubai says they are sure they are in Israel.
They offer no documentation of any kind but they are sure.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:57 PM
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8. Deleted message
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Shooting kids in school for practice?
You really believe these things?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. that's what rabid hate does to a brain.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. they don't see it that way when it comes to Israel...only when aimed at Hamas, Arab leadership
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:07 PM
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Pretty occupations don't include missile attacks.
The Americans had a very pretty postwar occupation of Japan.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I completely agree
It's unbelievable that we continue to support them unflinchingly. Maybe if we were a little more discerning, they would not be so provocative to their neighbors, and not be so cruel to the Palestinians.

And for those who would whine about rocket firing into Israel: How many people have been killed by that? Place that side by side with how many have been killed by Israel's retaliations.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:58 PM
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Don't take it personally sweetie
I just hate violence and oppression, no matter who the perpetrators are. I don't make exceptions for certain favored nations.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. lol. you clearly do, honeypie.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 05:48 PM
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Where do you think the occupation ranks in terms of innocents killed
since WWII? Compared to all the other wars, genocides and conflicts? Number 10, 20, 100? How close to a real holocaust is it really?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 06:31 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Deleted message
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. I see - holocaust with a little "h"
by your definition holocaust has no real meaning, does it? Numbers are irrelevant - people simply need to be on the losing side of what ever conflict to be the victim of a holocaust.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Oh, grow up.
It's worthless to try to explain anything to the blind and deaf supporters of the totality.

The numbers continue to grow in the Palestinian occupation, that is the difference....and will continue to grow. The holocaust did not continue for sixty years, either, you know. A few million this generation, a few million that generation.....but what does that matter? Is that the answer?


Give it a rest.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. The number that keeps growing is the Palestinian population
I guess holocaust and genocide don't mean what they use to.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Everyone in America has to account for the blood on our soil first.
What an amazing load of claptrap you swallowed with your mother's milk.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. America needs to account for the assistance
given to almost every right wing regime on the planet in the name of 'freedom'. America has done it for more than a century, and continues to do so, the latest victim being Honduras. And don't forget the Bush regime, who removed Jean-Paul Aristide, the democratically elected representative of Haiti. That was, as usual, because he wanted something for his people to live on, and that would have threatened very lucrative contracts in the region.

Get this, one more time. I do not hate Israelis or Jews. I do hate the things that religion is doing to the area, and I despise the actions of the Israeli government.

America does NOT get adequate news of the area, and most Americans don't seem to understand that 1/3 of the foreign aid budget goes to Israel. You support that vicious occupation to the tune of 3 billion dollars plus every year. Part of that is because America wants the foothold in the middle east that being able to use the air bases gives.

Don't blame me for pointing out what you don't want to see; if you read news somewhere else than the US propaganda, you'd find this out on your own.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:17 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:36 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:51 PM
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Just have to keep hammering, don't you.
I agree that we have treated everyone badly, and continue to do so. I also don't agree with the theft of native land anywhere, including here.

I am not obsessed by judaism, but I also don't agree that they should be allowed to continue what they do.


You just have to label me with hate. It's tiresome, and it's stupid. My 'hatred' isn't what's under discussion....except in your tiny mind. I am not about to discuss it further, because of your hate.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. People who suffered so much at the hands of Germany doing essentially the same thing to others?
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 09:21 PM by oberliner
You renounced organized religion of all kinds partly because of the mess Israel is creating?

What Israel is doing gives a great deal of fodder to anti-semitism?

Israel is doing essentially the same thing that Nazi Germany did and for the same essential reason?

Are you for real?
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Yeah, I read the news......
The real news. The stuff that details precisely what Israel is doing.....the stuff that doesn't usually get here.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. What is your source for the real news?
What information about Israel do you read that most people don't?

Do you think that most folks here are ill-informed on the realities of what Israel is doing?
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. And not a word about Palestinian terror. What a surprise.
The Mossad didn't kill this fella for shits and giggles. They killed a man who had dedicated himself to the destruction of Israel.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Assuming it was Mossad which has not been proven.
Face it, Fatah loved him just as much.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You're right, it hasn't been proven..
Hamas has many enemies.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. I keep thinking Agatha Christie.
Murder on the Orient Express.

But mostly I wonder where his security was. This guy KNEW he was wanted dead not alive. He KNEW. His organization isn't unfamiliar with Mossad or Fatah. He wasn't born yesterday.

WHERE WAS HIS SECURITY?

So my very first question is: Who did he piss off in Hamas?

Philip II of Macedon was assassinated because he was persuaded to leave his security behind by people he trusted.

We know why the Israelis wanted him dead. Did anyone else have a reason?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. That 'Look Over There!' tactic isn't going to work...
In this case you don't know the first thing about what the OP has said in the past, while I'm very familiar with it. I've been to quite a few of Aimin Saikal's lectures back when I was a student, and Palestinian terrorism got quite a heavy mention. Interestingly enough, when he was talking about Palestinian terrorism, there was no mirror image of you jumping up and yelling out 'And not a word about Israeli terror. What a surprise.' I wonder if it's because DU's one of the few places in the world where there's some weird ritual where demands for equal time fly thick and fast the minute Israel gets criticised...

Let's not try to make what was done into some sort of romantic thing. It was a death squad which had no respect for the sovereignty of other countries, including the country the murder was carried out in, and the countries who's passports were forged and who's citizens became victims of a really nasty identity theft.

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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. Murder yes, terrorism, no.
Was it a terror attack when John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln? How about the shooting of John Kennedy? Or the shoot down of Yamamoto's plane?

Was al-Mabhouh a civilian target? Nope, he was a terrorist leader.

Now we could have a reasoned argument about whether the Israelis should be hunting down Hamas leaders, whether they should gun them down in violation of other county's laws, and whether they should steal other people's passports to do it (and I'd come down on the side of what the hell were they thinking), but the terrorism hypoerbole doesn't help.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
49. Al Mabhouh's murder is an act of terrorism
Political assassinations should always be condemned, regardless of who commits them
* By Duraid Al Baik, Associate Editor
* Published: 00:00 March 1, 2010

Once again, western governments have failed to consolidate their war against terrorism by taking decisive action against terrorist acts like the one committed in Dubai in January. Terrorist acts, wherever they are committed and by whoever, should be totally rejected, whether they were planned in Tora Bora or in Tel Aviv. This has not yet happened in the case of the assassination of Hamas commander Mahmoud Al Mabhouh.

Let's first be clear that the crime committed in Dubai is a terrorist act, whichever way you look at it. It is an unprovoked international crime committed by a 26-member squad of murderers against a sovereign and peaceful country. The perpetrators used the passports of five western nations. Undoubtedly, targeting a man whose name is not on the international list of terrorists regardless of his background and affiliation and murdering him in another country is not acceptable under international law. The international community should not accept such a murder under any circumstances. It must be considered an act of war that is meant to tarnish the image of the country as a peaceful oasis, and an attack against its stability and prosperity.

More: http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists/al-mabhouh-s-murder-is-an-act-of-terrorism-1.590019
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Why is it terrorism?
Did you notice that the article doesn't say why? It just makes the unsupported assertion. It's not even a proper opinion. Nor is this an international crime. It's a crime in Dubai and the misuse of passports is a crime in the countries that issued them, but that's it.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. UAE has right to prosecute Israel over state terrorism: Surour (Egyptian PA Speaker)
2010-03-02 23:26:51

WAM Cairo, 2nd March 2010 (WAM) -- The UAE has the right to prosecute Israel over the state terrorism it committed on its land by assassinating the HAMAS commander Mahmoud Al Mabhouh, Speaker of People's Assembly in Egypt Fathi Surour said today.

He said the UAE can do that in pursuance of the international law if it has proven that an Israeli agent has murdered Al Mabhouh.

Surour, who was speaking to reporters on the sideline of the Arab Inter-parliamentary Union (AIPU) here, added that the role of Arab parliaments here is to throw their political weight behind the UAE in its drive to fight international terrorism perpetrated by Israel on its land.
WAM/TF

Emirates News Agency: http://www.wam.ae/servlet/Satellite?c=WamLocEnews&cid=1267000643572&pagename=WAM%2FWAM_E_Layout&parent=Query&parentid=1135099399852
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