Israel planning Old City renovations without consultations

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Report: Israel planning Old City renovations without consultations
Published yesterday (updated) 28/02/2010 12:48
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Jerusalem – Ma'an – The Israeli municipal officials in Jerusalem plan to affect a series of changes in the Old City streets and alleyways, from streetlights to gardens, lawyer Qays Nasser explained, without first consulting a single Palestinian official or Jerusalem property owners.

The unapproved changes on an area under Israeli occupation follow a Sunday announcement by the Israeli government claiming West Bank religious institutions as "national heritage sites," and adds to the fire already burning over continued excavations in Silwan and the Old City that seek to prioritize Jewish history in the holy land over its past and present Palestinian inhabitants.

According to Nasser, renovations are planned on 361 lanes and alleys of the Old City, totaling some 10% of the entire area of the ancient quarters.

Renovation projects targeting Damascus Gate, the central entrance to the Muslim Quarter of the Old City, could take as long as 24-36 months, Nasser said, closing the entrance to all pedestrian traffic. Nasser was also concerned of the fate of historic artifacts that would inevitably be found during the renovations, saying they would invariably be transferred to Israeli museums, rather than to Palestinians.

Though the plans Nasser found say the construction and renovations are meant to "protect the old city and maintain its character," the lawyer cast doubt on the intentions of the planners, saying it was likely the changes would disadvantage Palestinian quarters, and give greater access emphasis to elements of Jerusalem's Jewish heritage while bypassing the thousands of years of Palestinian and Islamic life in the city.

read on...
news.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=264599

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. Insanity... unless of course the goal of the Israeli's gov't is to incite violence. nt

[Taitertots]

12. As if violence was an appropriate response

Their violence is only going to hasten the suffering of increasingly more Palestinians and justify further Israeli expansion.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. I wonder what the response would be if Palestinians decided it was time to update the

Jewish quarter?

But you are so right tater. Palestinians haven't learned the art of silently taking it up the wazoo.

[Taitertots]

16. You are creating a false dilemma

There are many options between total silence and terrorist violence.


Didn't they already destroy the Jewish quarter in the 1940's?

[oberliner]

2. We should bomb Israel, huh ProgressiveMuslim

[ProgressiveMuslim]

6. Any comment on the substance? The policy?

What comment shall we make on the separation of males and females at an Islamic university in Gaza?

What shall we infer from that?
They are backward?
They are animals?
They are subhuman?

What's your point in posting that piece? Seriously, Oberliner? what was your goal? So that more DUers would feel disgust for the people of Gaza? I surely hope you achieve that noble goal. I'm sure you are quite proud of yourself for that.

I am posting this article to shed light on policy of a democratic gov't, not to make people feel like Jews are subhuman. Can you say the same?

[oberliner]

21. The article did the exact opposite of all of the things you are talking about

Backward, animals, subhuman? You obviously didn't read the comments from the associate dean included in the piece.

The separation of males and females? If that is all that you gleaned from that article then I wonder if you read past the first page. Probably not.

As for this piece, the claim is that Israel is doing renovations involving streetlights and gardens. Then there is some speculation from various people as to what they believe Israel is "likely" to do (but has not done).

[oberliner]

3. As always ProgressiveMuslim's goal is to incite further hatred for a significant portion of Israeli

society.

ProgressiveMulims's all for peace, remember?

[polly7]

4. Well of course, anything reporting on Israel is automatically

looking for more violence.

Good article, thanks for posting it.

[oberliner]

5. Sorry about that

Obviously reporting a story that reflects poorly on Israel is not automatically looking for violence.

What a ridiculous implication I was making there - I apologize.

[polly7]

9. Thanks, but you needn't apologize to me for that leap. n/t.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

7. Hardly. My goal is to shed light on the policies of a nation that is supposedly interested

in achieving peace.

My goal is to point to policy. Can you say the same?

[oberliner]

8. How about shedding the light on the policies of Hamas?

That would be inciting hatred, right?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

10. Oberliner, your piece slams the Islamic University. You crossed the line.

There are lots of examples of ultra-orthodox Jews looking like idiots. Do I post that crap?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. And... no comment on the actions of the Israeli gov't in their actions re: the Damascus gate?

[oberliner]

18. Streetlights and gardens?! Oh the horror!!

[ProgressiveMuslim]

23. You are so right. Israel's concern for the beautification of Arab property is heartwarming.

Your sarcasm, in the light of historical events, is rather obscene.

[oberliner]

24. There is nothing obscene about being sarcastic with respect to this article

What is obscene is making the wild accusations that you did with respect to the article posted about Hamas and the Islamic University in Gaza.

The article you posted in the OP makes mention of streetlights and gardens. This does not really seem like something to get particularly worked up about considering everything else that is going on.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

25. So when I am sarcastic I'm making wild accusations?

What conclusion can one draw from what you posted about "Hamas U?"

Aren't you going for "the hate" in posting that crap? What savages... what subhumans... no wonder Israel has to destroy them.

[oberliner]

17. What in the world are you talking about?

How does the piece "slam" the University?

[azurnoir]

14. Link

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=264599

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Thanks!

[Igel]

19. Are these the same thing?

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=264599 (your post)

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=168833

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/26/world/middleeast/26mideast.html?scp=1&sq=jerusalem%20silwan%20&st=cse

[sabbat hunter]

20. Considering that

the old city was never supposed to be part of a Palestine under the partition plan in 1948, why should Israel consult with Palestinian officials. Perhaps with the Muslim guardians of the Temple Mount, if it does affect access to that for all Muslims. But I see no reason why Palestinian officials should have any say over the changes.


Additionally do you condemn the diggings that the Muslim authorities undertook under the Temple Mount, which probably was wrecking a ton of history, including evidence of past Jewish temples on the Temple Mount?

Plus the fact that Nasser even admits that hte construction and renovations are meant to protect the old city and maintain its character.

[azurnoir]

22. yet more half truths and an omission

East Jerusalem was not supposed to part of Israel either as your post implies, it was supposed to be under UN mandate but the UN negotiator was murdered by Israeli or Jewish Palestinian terrorists one of the leaders of that operation became the PM of Israel later on

[sabbat hunter]

26. the old city

was indeed supposed to be an international city. However, the UN did nothing to protect the city from invading Jordanian forces in 1949, nor in the years afterwards.

I see no reason why status quo of the old city should not reign (political control by Israel, holy sites controlled by each religion).
I also see no reason why Palestine could not have a capital in the east sections of Jerusalem (but not the old city as I feel neither side should have their capital within the old city)

and can you please link us to the proof that a UN negotiator was murdered by Jewish terrorists, as that is news to me.

[azurnoir]

27. Yes and the link says

mediator not negotiator were you hoping to score some semantics points or were you actually ignorant?

UN mediator

On 20 May 1948, Folke Bernadotte was appointed the United Nations' mediator in Palestine, the first official mediator in the UN's history. This was necessitated by the immediate violence that followed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine and the subsequent unilateral Israeli Declaration of Independence. In this capacity, he succeeded in achieving an initial truce during the subsequent 1948 Arab-Israeli War and laid the groundwork for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. The specific proposals showed the influence of the previously responsible British government, and to a lesser extent the U.S. government.<25>
First proposal

On 28 June 1948, Bernadotte submitted his first formal proposal in secret to the various parties. It suggested that Palestine and Transjordan be reformed as "a Union, comprising two Members, one Arab and one Jewish." He wrote that: "in putting forward any proposal for the solution of the Palestine problem, one must bear in mind the aspirations of the Jews, the political difficulties and differences of opinion of the Arab leaders, the strategic interests of Great Britain, the financial commitment of the United States and the Soviet Union, the outcome of the war, and finally the authority and prestige of the United Nations.<26>

As far as the boundaries of the two Members were concerned, Bernadotte thought that the following "might be worthy of consideration."<27>

1. Inclusion of the whole or part of the Negev in Arab territory.
2. Inclusion of the whole or part of Western Galilee in the Jewish territory.
3. Inclusion of the City of Jerusalem in Arab territory, with municipal autonomy for the Jewish community and special arrangements for the protection of the Holy Places.
4. Consideration of the status of Jaffa.
5. Establishment of a free port at Haifa, the area of the free port to include the refineries and terminals.
6. Establishment of a free airport at Lydda.

Second proposal

After the unsuccessful first proposal, Bernadotte continued with a more complex proposal that abandoned the idea of a Union and proposed two independent states. This proposal was completed on September 16, 1948, and had as its basis seven "basic premises" (verbatim):<28>

1. Peace must return to Palestine and every feasible measure should be taken to ensure that hostilities will not be resumed and that harmonious relations between Arab and Jew will ultimately be restored.
2. A Jewish State called Israel exists in Palestine and there are no sound reasons for assuming that it will not continue to do so.
3. The boundaries of this new State must finally be fixed either by formal agreement between the parties concerned or failing that, by the United Nations.
4. Adherence to the principle of geographical homogeneity and integration, which should be the major objective of the boundary arrangements, should apply equally to Arab and Jewish territories, whose frontiers should not therefore, be rigidly controlled by the territorial arrangements envisaged in the resolution of 29 November.
5. The right of innocent people, uprooted from their homes by the present terror and ravages of war, to return to their homes, should be affirmed and made effective, with assurance of adequate compensation for the property of those who may choose not to return.
6. The City of Jerusalem, because of its religious and international significance and the complexity of interests involved, should be accorded special and separate treatment.
7. International responsibility should be expressed where desirable and necessary in the form of international guarantees, as a means of allaying existing fears, and particularly with regard to boundaries and human rights.

The proposal then made specific suggestions that included (extracts):<29>

1. The existing indefinite truce should be superseded by a formal peace, or at the minimum, an armistice.
2. The frontiers between the Arab and Jewish territories, in the absence of agreement between Arabs and Jews, should be established by the United Nations.
3. The Negev should be defined as Arab territory.
4. The frontier should run from Faluja north northeast to Ramleh and Lydda (both of which places would be in Arab territory).
5. Galilee should be defined as Jewish territory.
6. Haifa should be declared a free port, and Lydda airport should be declared a free airport.
7. The City of Jerusalem, which should be understood as covering the area defined in the resolution of the General Assembly of 29 November, should be treated separately and should be placed under effective United Nations control with maximum feasible local autonomy for its Arab and Jewish communities with full safeguards for the protection of the Holy Places and sites and free access to them and for religious freedom.
8. The United Nations should establish a Palestine conciliation commission.
9. The right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish-controlled territory at the earliest possible date should be affirmed by the United Nations, and their repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation, and payment of adequate compensation for the property of those choosing not to return, should be supervised and assisted by the United Nations conciliation commission.

Bernadotte's second proposal was prepared in consultation with British and American emissaries. The degree to which they influenced the proposal is poorly known, since the meetings were kept strictly secret and all documents were destroyed,<30> but Bernadotte apparently "found that the U.S.-U.K., proposals were very much in accord with his own views" and the two emissaries expressed the same opinion.<31> The secret was publicly exposed in October, only nine days before the U.S. presidential elections, causing President Truman great embarrassment. Truman reacted by making a strongly pro-Zionist declaration, which contributed to the defeat of the Bernadotte plan in the UN during the next two months. Also contributing was the failure of the cease-fire and continuation of the fighting.<32>

After Bernadotte's death, his assistant American mediator Ralph Bunche was appointed to replace him. Bunche eventually negotiated a ceasefire, signed on the Greek island of Rhodes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

[sabbat hunter]

29. This is the first link you posted

in reply to me about Bernadotte


as far as the old city, in the quote from wikipedia you posted

"7. The City of Jerusalem, which should be understood as covering the area defined in the resolution of the General Assembly of 29 November, should be treated separately and should be placed under effective United Nations control with maximum feasible local autonomy for its Arab and Jewish communities with full safeguards for the protection of the Holy Places and sites and free access to them and for religious freedom?

So even back in 1948, the UN via its mediator said that Jerusalem (in particular the old city)should be internationalized, and under its control, with the protection for its holy places, etc.

I contend that the UN by not defending the old city from Jordanian forces, not taking action against Jordan, abrogated their rights to hold the old city as an international city.

[azurnoir]

30. The UN mediator that was murdered which was my point n/t

[azurnoir]

28. on Folke Bernadotte's murder

Bernadotte was assassinated on Friday 17 September 1948 by members of the Jewish militant Zionist group Lehi, whom the British called "the Stern gang." A three man 'center' of this extreme Jewish group had approved the killing: Yitzhak Yezernitsky (the future Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak Shamir), Nathan Friedmann (also called Natan Yellin-Mor) and Yisrael Eldad (also known as Scheib). A fourth leader, Emmanuel Strassberg (Hanegbi) was also suspected by the Israeli prime minister David Ben-Gurion of being part of the group that had decided on the assassination.<34><35><36><37> The assassination was planned by the Lehi operations chief in Jerusalem, Yehoshua Zettler. By most accounts, it was carried out by six young members of the Lehi group: Yehoshua Cohen, Shmuel Rosenblum, David Ephrati, Yitzhak Markovitz, Yehoshua Zettler, and Meshulam Makover. By other accounts, a three-man team ambushed Bernadotte's motorcade in Jerusalem's Katamon neighborhood. Two of them, Yitzhak Ben Moshe (Markovitz) and Avraham Steinberg, shot at the tires of the UN vehicles. The third, Yehoshua Cohen, opened the door of Bernadotte's car and shot him at close range. The bullets also hit a French officer who was sitting beside him, U.N. Observer Colonel André Serot. Both were killed. In the immediate confusion, Col. Serot was mistaken for Dr. Ralph Bunche, the American aide to Bernadotte. Meshulam Makover, the fourth accomplice, was the driver of the getaway car.<38><39> General Åge Lundström, who was in the UN vehicle, described the incident as follows:

“In the Katamon quarter, we were held up by a Jewish Army type jeep placed in a road block and filled with men in Jewish Army uniforms. At the same moment, I saw an armed man coming from this jeep. I took little notice of this because I merely thought it was another checkpoint. However, he put a Tommy gun through the open window on my side of the car, and fired point blank at Count Bernadotte and Colonel Serot. I also heard shots fired from other points, and there was considerable confusion… Colonel Serot fell in the seat in back of me, and I saw at once that he was dead. Count Bernadotte bent forward, and I thought at the time he was trying to get cover. I asked him: 'Are you wounded?' He nodded, and fell back… When we arrived , … I carried the Count inside and laid him on the bed…I took off the Count's jacket and tore away his shirt and undervest. I saw that he was wounded around the heart and that there was also a considerable quantity of blood on his clothes about it. When the doctor arrived, I asked if anything could be done, but he replied that it was too late."<40>

The murders took place at Ben Zion Guini Square, off Hapalmah Street.<41>

<snip>

Lehi took responsibility for the killings in the name of Hazit Hamoledet (The National Front), a name they copied from a war-time Bulgarian resistance group.<44> The group regarded Bernadotte as a stooge of the British and their Arab allies, and therefore as a serious threat to the emerging state of Israel.<45> Most immediately, a truce was currently in force and Lehi feared that the Israeli leadership would agree to Bernadotte's peace proposals, which they considered disastrous.<46><47> They did not know that the Israeli leaders had already decided to reject Bernadotte's plans and take the military option.<48><49>

Lehi was forcibly disarmed and many members were arrested, but nobody was charged with the killings. Yellin-Mor and another Lehi member, Schmuelevich, were charged with belonging to a terrorist organization. They were found guilty but immediately released and pardoned. Yellin-Mor had meanwhile been elected to the first Knesset.<50> Years later, Cohen's role was uncovered by David Ben-Gurion's biographer Michael Bar Zohar, while Cohen was working as Ben-Gurion's personal bodyguard. The first public admission of Lehi's role in the killing was made on the anniversary of the assassination in 1977.<51> The statute of limitations for murder had expired in 1971.<36><52>]/i]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte