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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 07:54 AM
Original message
Israel is back
Edited on Sun Feb-21-10 07:56 AM by shira
Israel is back
Our enemies scared of ‘crazy’ Israel, which finally learned rules of region
Guy Bechor
Published: 02.19.10, 09:17 / Israel Opinion


We are currently facing an odd situation the likes of which we have not seen for many years: Israel’s enemies are in panic, or is it paranoia, for fear that Israel will be attacking them. Hezbollah is convinced that it will suffer a blow at any moment, Hamas is still licking its wounds, Syria is concerned, and Iran’s foreign minister already declared that Israel is a “nation of crazy people” with “mad leaders” who may launch a strike.

Meanwhile, the frightened Lebanese turned to the UN, to UNIFIL, and to French President Sarkozy and asked for France’s protection against the “terrible” Israel. However, the French announced that as long as Hezbollah is armed, they will only ask Israel to refrain from destroying Lebanon’s civilian infrastructures and no more than that. All this was published by the Arab media. On the other hand, our borders are quieter than they have been in many years.

So how do we explain this bizarre Middle Eastern paranoia? The IDF is training today as it has not done in dozens of years. Every day, from morning till night: Tanks, airplanes, helicopters, live-fire drills and soldiers running around. The Lebanese watch this from across the border, as do the Syrians, and they are becoming anxious: What are the Israelis plotting over there? Is there something we don’t know?

The Israeli restlessness prompts anxiety among our enemies, and this is good, of course. It’s called deterrence. Both Hezbollah and Syria know that the IDF made a leap since the last Lebanon War and it is now the first military in the world equipping its tanks with anti-missile systems, which are changing the rules of war. The IDF is also equipping itself with new APCs, advanced airplanes, and amazing technological systems, while Hezbollah and Syria are still stuck in the ‘80s and ‘90s. Moreover, a series of daring assassinations attributed to Israel is prompting personal fears among axis of evil leaders. They suspect everyone around them and the confusion is great. We should recall that Hezbollah leader Nasrallah has been hiding for three and a half years now, and this is quite embarrassing for someone who rushed to declare a “divine victory,” no less.

more...
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3851015,00.html
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. We’re all thrilled by Mossad the movie
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article7031188.ece


Steven Soderbergh, evidently, was only kidding when he said that there would be no Ocean’s 14. He’s plainly been hard at work filming in a hotel in Dubai, as we can see from the trailers running on News at Ten. With Mossad operatives filling in as movie extras.

Now I know we really, really shouldn’t joke about these things. I should be wearing black and have a long face and be uttering pieties about the disgraceful “extrajudicial” killing of the Hamas military chief Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, apparently by Israeli agents.

All nice people, quite rightly, are adopting the proper moral stance and expressing outrage and disgust at this affront to international law and justice. But the rest of us ... well, we simply can’t wait until the movie comes out. Largely thanks to the blurry CCTV pictures, there is an element to the assassination in Dubai that is appallingly irresistible. What the secret agents did — and, critically, what we saw them do — was compelling and breathtaking in its cleverness.

Box office, in other words.

BACKGROUND
Dubai assassination - police hunt six new suspects
Britons caught up in the Dubai assassination plot
Killers had lain in wait for the Hamas leader
It was also, in the darkest sense, comic — hence the feeling of Ocean’s 11, 12 and 13.

That the agents were using fake identities, one of them being that of Paul Keeley, 42, a bewildered Kent-born odd-job man who was living in Israel, just added to the sense that this was too good to be true. Where were George Clooney and Brad Pitt? To see the images of tubby tennis players bimbling across the hotel lobby and into the lift with the Danny Devito-like figure of Mr al-Mabhouh, and then following him so that they could note down his room number, was to know that this was an incomparable heist; a case of life imitating art imitating life. That it was a rare glimpse into the shadowy world of international espionage makes it all the more seductive.

Now everything I write, of course, is on the understanding that the Israelis refuse to comment on allegations that they are responsible for the killing. But their motive, it is said, is that Mr al-Mabhouh is rumoured to have played a key role in smuggling Iranian-funded arms to Islamist militants in Gaza, and may have been on his way to Iran. And just because the Israelis haven’t said that they did it doesn’t mean for a minute that they weren’t responsible.

It is an unfashionable thing to say, but I have a considerable admiration for the Israeli way of doing things. They want something, they get it. They perceive someone as their deadly enemy, they kill them. They get hit, they hit back. They don’t waste time explaining or justifying or agonising; nor do they allow their detractors to enter their country and then afford them generous welfare payments. They just act. No messing. No scruples. Not even a shrug and a denial, just a rather magnificent refusal to debate anything.

This absolutism, based on their history, carries its own moral weight; one that is rather electrifying in a Western world grown flabby with niceties. Clearly, the Israelis could defend their policies if they wanted to, but they quite simply can’t be bothered. It’s a waste of breath. One admires them for that, too.

I’ve felt this way ever since the Entebbe raid in 1976, an occasion when the Israelis showed Hollywood a thing or two. After two Palestinians and two Germans had hijacked an aircraft on a flight that had originated in Israel, the Israeli army simply swooped in, killed the hijackers and freed all but three of the hostages. It was decisive, bloody and clever. Lieutenant-Colonel “Yoni” Netanyahu, the older brother of the present Prime Minister, Binyamin, was the only commando killed in the fighting.

They also outdid fiction after the massacre at the Munich Olympics in 1972, when they hunted down 11 Palestinians who were responsible and eliminated them wherever they were in the world. Aided by fake passports and disguises, Mossad agents employed methods including a booby-trapped telephone, a bomb planted in a bed and a raid in Beirut in which the present Defence Minister, Ehud Barak, dressed as a woman. Nobody caught it on CCTV, but on the ground that human nature can never resist this kind of stuff, Steven Spielberg made it into the Oscar-nominated 2005 movie Munich.

Maybe, as the West becomes increasingly gentle and polite, and pays those monthly direct debits to Amnesty International, we need the Israelis to remind us that the world is not made according to our template. Maybe that is why we are drawn towards tales of uncompromising, ruthless derring-do. How else to explain the veneration of the SAS, the worldwide glut of books and movies on covert operations?

One last point. Usually, in comedy heist movies, no one gets killed. Somewhere a family is weeping at the death of Mr al-Mabhouh and no one takes any pleasure from that. But the people who die in Mossad operations tend to be, like the Hamas leader, morally compromised. There’s a side to us that acknowledges that some assassins’ victims may have had it coming to them. So we’re appalled, but not so appalled that we don’t look forward with relish to the sequel. Ultimately, this is less about siding with the Israelis than loving winners.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. The term "Crazy" is not normally a compliment
Yes, the Netanyahu-Lieberman regime most certainly is that. Suicidal? That's an open question.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 10:52 AM
Original message
The issue facing Israel is not a threat of attack from anybody.
It is all about saving face in Lebanon, ca 2006, when a guerilla band essentially fought the Israeli army and airforce to a standstill. That fight put a question mark on Israel's military invincibility, even as George Bush was egging them on. I forgot George's exact words, but it was something to the effect that, sometimes you have to kick some ass to show who's boss. 1,200 mostly southern Shiite civilians including many children died as a result of Israel's indiscriminate bombing and artillary fire. And then there was also Summer Rains, the simultaneous invasion of Gaza, where 600 mostly civilian Palestinians were killed.

Both of these invasions were paid for by the US taxpayer as will any future invasion by Israel. And that's what rubs.

These alleged threats toward Israel, of course, could be put to a stop easily by a fair and just Israeli-Palestinian peace, two sovereign states. But Israel is not seeing it that way, and continuing to pursue the Eretz Israel dream, and the inevitable Apartheid configuration.

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. What's with this aversion of yours to the facts? What are you hoping to pull off here?
Edited on Sun Feb-21-10 11:12 AM by shira
1. Nasrallah has been in hiding for over 3 years now and Israel's north is quieter now than it's been in many years.

2. WRT the number of civilians vs. Hezbollah killed in Lebanon 2006...

The Daily Telegraph has been candid about Hezbollah’s efforts to hide its casualties. An Aug. 4 piece by Con Coughlin in the Telegraph noted that

Although Hizbollah has refused to make public the extent of the casualties it has suffered, Lebanese officials estimate that up to 500 fighters have been killed in the past three weeks of hostilities with Israel, and another 1,500 injured.

Lebanese officials have also disclosed that many of Hizbollah's wounded are being treated in hospitals in Syria to conceal the true extent of the casualties. They are said to have been taken through al-Arissa border crossing with the help of Syrian security forces. ...

Hizbollah's operational council has drawn up casualty lists that have been passed to the Shaheed Foundation. Copies have been seen by The Daily Telegraph, and have also been obtained by Lebanese newspapers, which have been pressured by Hizbollah not to publish them."Hizbollah is desperate to conceal its casualties because it wants to give the impression that it is winning its war,'' said a senior security official. "People might reach a very different conclusion if they knew the true extent of Hizbollah's casualties." (emphasis added)

A few weeks later, Patrick Bishop of the Daily Telegraph reported:

UN officials believe that Hizbollah will not want to reignite the conflict, at least for a while. The organisation's culture of secrecy has disguised the true number of its casualties – funerals of "martyrs'' are being staggered to soften the impact of the losses. Some were interred without ceremony for re-burial later. A UN official estimated the deaths at 500, 10 per cent of the force Hizbollah is thought to muster ... (August 22, 2006)

Additionally, the Kuwait Times on August 30 reprinted a Stratfor article which reported that "Hezbollah has buried more than 700 fighters" from the recent fighting. This is in accord with a statement by Maj. Gen. Yaakov Amidror, a former senior officer in Israeli military intelligence, who said in a public briefing reported by UPI, that:

... Hezbollah lost more than 500 men, even though it confirmed only some 60-odd killed. Israel identified 440 dead guerillas by name and address, and experience shows that Israeli figures are half to two-thirds of the enemy's real casualties. Therefore, Amidror estimated, Hezbollah's real death toll might be as high as 700. (Sept. 7, 2006)


3. As for the 2-state solution, Olmert offered Abbas in 2008 a 100% deal that included a Palestinian capital in E.Jerusalem and limited Right-of-Return.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/ehud-olmert-still-dreams-of-peace/story-e6frg76f-1225804745744

Abbas rejected it.

Do you have answers for any of this?
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johnroshan Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. *sigh* Get off your high horse, will ya?
WRT the number of civilians vs. Hezbollah killed in Lebanon 2006

Show that to the mother of a child killed by the Israeli army; or for that matter, a relative of a victim of a Hezbollah attack. Do you really think it makes any difference to them?

Israel is back

You're right, back to business. Who are we killing today?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. conclusion - and please correct me if I'm wrong in any way
Israelis or Zionists are some strange form of life for whom the usual rules don’t apply.

When it comes to this particular group of people, the same level of evidence, balance, or level of right vs. wrong is not required. In fact, Israelis or Zionists do not even have to be dealt with as they really are but as they exist in the imaginations of those who obsess and busy themselves making up such descriptions or portrayals.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. The issue facing Israel is not a threat of attack from anybody.
It is all about saving face in Lebanon, ca 2006, when a guerilla band essentially fought the Israeli army and airforce to a standstill. That fight put a question mark on Israel's military invincibility, even as George Bush was egging them on. I forgot George's exact words, but it was something to the effect that, sometimes you have to kick some ass to show who's boss. 1,200 mostly southern Shiite civilians including many children died as a result of Israel's indiscriminate bombing and artillary fire. And then there was also Summer Rains, the simultaneous invasion of Gaza, where 600 mostly civilian Palestinians were killed.

Both of these invasions were paid for by the US taxpayer as will any future invasion by Israel. And that's what rubs.

These alleged threats toward Israel, of course, could be put to a stop easily by a fair and just Israeli-Palestinian peace, two sovereign states. But Israel is not seeing it that way, and continuing to pursue the Eretz Israel dream, and the inevitable Apartheid configuration.

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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. I suspect that the men who write these articles are unable to satisfy their wives...
probably the same could be said for those that read them, too.

They exist on both sides of the border. The Arab media is full of Hezbollah blather about new AA missiles which will knock IDF planes out of the sky like flies.

The fact is Israel is behaving much better in Lebanon since Hezbollah gave them a blood nose in 2006. The sonic booms that IDF pilots used to perform over the skies of Beirut are no more. Same with the mock bombing runs that they would usually do over UNIFIL installations.

Its amazing what a bit of mutual deterrence can achieve.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I agree, detterence works
Let's hope that deterrence leads Hamas and Hezbollah to believe that starting something again isn't worth their while since Israel is so 'crazy'.

Thousands of lives will be preserved.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Israel is back? I didn't think it had gone anywhere.
Edited on Sun Feb-21-10 06:46 PM by LeftishBrit
I think everyone knows they've got a strong army. Except for nutters, like someone who used to post here stating with lots of swear words that Israel is a pathetic country that can't win wars, no one exactly thinks of Israel as weak from that point of view.

For the rest, I am not going to take entirely seriously any article that refers to 'axis of evil leaders' - how Bushian! And Guy Bechor is a strange person. He seems to regard it as necessary to protect Israel from the dreadful influence of the 'leftist' media (meaning *its own* leftist media, not that of other countries):

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127711

And his attitude to the Palestinians seems to be one of wanting them to behave badly and elect bad people just to *prove* to Israel and the world that they are the bad guys and one has to be tough with them. (I have not uncommonly seen similar opinions expressed on the other side toward Israel: at best an attitude that it is better to have an absolutely honest enemy than an unreliable compromiser who could prove false; at worst an attitude that you want your enemy to *be* an enemy to justify your own group's continued aggression.)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3498270,00.html

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3612155,00.html

Not a person whose views I share or like.






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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. "Hamas is still licking its wounds,.."?????
Edited on Thu Feb-25-10 11:50 AM by shergald
Or do you mean the Palestinian people who were wounded by Israel's massacre a year ago, which Soldiers of Conscience called a "turkey shoot." Of course the dead, the 1,400 Palestinians, mostly civilians, over 300 children, will no longer suffer.

By the latest poll done a few years ago, only 25% of Gaza residents are supporters of Hamas. Nonetheless, does a Hamas supporting family and their children deserve to die? Most of the dead were likely not Hamas supporters, in any case, as there is no evidence that Israel bombed and shelled and shot just Hamas supporters.

No question that Israel's best military efforts, going back to 1982, are against civilian populations.

Did the article fail to mention that it was the Kadima government that broke the Egyptian negotiated ceasefire with Hamas just four months into it, killing six Hamas militants, just two months before the Israeli election, when Netanyahu was on the stump claiming that Kadima is "soft" on Palestinians. Did Netanyahu mean that they were not starving Gaza's children enough (see UN data on this point)? Nonetheless, the timing is highly suspect, as there was no reason for the ceasefire to break down. Israeli Embassys confirmed that no rockets were fired during that period. They did of course resume right after the killings, an apparently expected consequence.
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