Zionist group urges donors to avoid UC Irvine

[shergald]

MSNBC reporting: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35430790/ns/us_news/

IRVINE, Calif. - After months of growing tension between Jewish and Muslim students at the University of California, Irvine, the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) is asking potential students to apply elsewhere and donors to stop sending contributions.

The New York-based organization lambasted Chancellor Michael Drake in a statement Tuesday for not condemning anti-Semitic speech on campus and enabling a years-long history of "bigotry, discrimination and the violation of civil rights" by the school's Muslim Student Union.

And what did the students do? They harassed Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador, with questions as he defended Israel's actions in Gaza, which have been called war crimes by the UN (Goldstone Report).

ZOA is the most right wing member of the Israel Lobby, an unabashed Likud supporter of Eretz Israel (Israeli colonialism), whose own Islamophobic history equates Arab and Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonialism with terrorism. Their pages reek with this kind of right wing Israeli propaganda.

Ecample: http://www.zoa.org//media/user/documents/Publ/NewTerroristStateAd.pdf

[BunkerHill24]

1. ZAO students should live in Gaza for few days! n/t

[unabelladonna]

2. the same protesters

would allow osama to bloviate. this is the US, they made it impossible for oren to speak.... the ZOA has a perfect right to blacklist UCirvine. if i had a college age child i certainly wouldn't allow her/him to apply. from what i've heard it has been taken over by a certain element.

[shergald]

3. The equation of Palestinian supporters with "osama" admirers....

is just another equation of Palestinians with terrorism. I
don't think such rhetoric is permitted on this site, even
though ZOA engages in it all the time. But as I stated, ZOA is
the most right wing group comprising the Israel Lobby.

[Scurrilous]

4. OMFG !!1!

I just check wikpedia and it's true....Asians/Asian Americans (at 55% of the student body) are taking over UC Irvine.

That is the 'certain element' you're referring to, right?

[LeftishBrit]

8. They 'would allow Osama to bloviate'?

Care to provide evidence for this?

[Violet_Crumble]

12. What 'certain element'? That's the way racists talk...

Don't bring any racist shit here to DU. Also, I think you might be onto something with yr attempt to link pro-Palestinian protesters with Osama. After I wandered into a protest against OCL, I got back to work and there was an email from Osama thanking me for attending and telling me that each thank you email he sends allows him to continue existing! ;)

[aranthus]

5. First, be honest.

The MSA students did not simply ask questions. They systematically shouted during the Ambassador's presentation so that he could not be heard. Their attitude and acts were directly contradictory to the mission of the University: the free exchange of ideas in the search for truth. They weren't interested in the truth, but in denying people the opportunity to hear Oren's speech.

Second, UC Irvine has a disturbing history of permitting the MSA and others of their ilk to bully those with whom they disagree. This incident was far from the first. the arrest of the eleven perpetrators is a welcome change, which the UC should follow with sufficiently swift and severe discipline to make an example.

Whether the ZOA is correct in its statements is another matter. I would be in favor of giving UC Irvine the chance to redeem itself. Let its response to the MSA in this case speak for it.

[shergald]

6. Reasonable reply.

But you said, "They weren't interested in the truth, but in denying people the opportunity to hear Oren's speech." Does this statement presume that Oren, who has been somewhat devious in explaining Gaza, was telling the truth. Oren is a mouthpiece for Israeli propaganda since he took the ambassador job, even though that was inevitable.

What "truth" by the way were you talking about?

Then you said, "favor of giving UC Irvine the chance to redeem itself." I don't think that UC needs anyone telling it that if it behaves well, it will be given another chance. It did afterall invite Oren to speak. I would ask in the same voice, has UC invited speakers to give the other side of the "truth?"

We have had proIsrael groups interfering in American college education for some time now, and it should be stopped. Daniel Pipes, of Campus Watch, for example, has actually had the temerity of asking college history professors, who did not teach a proIsrael line, to submit their course curriculum to him personally for approval, if they want another chance. That's unbelievable.

[aranthus]

10. Good question.

Was everything Oren said the truth? I have no idea, as I wasn't there. But I doubt that he is a pathological liar, and there are truths to the Israeli position. My point is that the people who disrupted his speech didn't care whether he was going to be truthful or not. All they cared about was that they disagreed with him, and therefore, were going to prevent him from speaking. That is contrary to the principles of free speech and the mission of the University.

As for your question about the UC inviting other speakers, yes they have. Most have been from the Left and pro-Palestinian side. Someone like Oren is in the minority. But the issue is not who the UC invites. It's the environment that the UC creates. Whether it is open and free, or whether it allows bullies to shut down debate and intimidate those with whom they disagree. I live in Southern California, so I have heard of many of the incidents in the local press. So UC Irvine has some explaining to do to prospective students, faculty and donors. It cuts both ways by the way. Look up what happened to Erwin Chemerinsky (a Leftist) when he was chosen to be the first dean of the UC Irvine law school. Also, look up his commentary on the treatment of the UC Irvine 11 in today's LA Times.

Pipes is Pipes. Does he try to interfere? If so, he's not very good at it. I know of no one who has been fired or reprimanded because of anything that he has said. As far as I know, Campus watch merely reports what professors say and do in their classes, which is information I think should be available. You can argue whether he's truthful or not, of course, but simply offering the information doesn't seem sinister to me.

[shergald]

11. Back to front.

Pipes allegedly keeps a blacklist of professors who are wayward as far as his right wing philosophy is concerned. What its impact is I don't know.

As for Oren, sorry but I have read his public responses to issues relevant to IP and the Goldstone Report on Gaza, in particular, and at best he is a liar, even claiming if I am not mistaken that it was Hamas that broke the ceasefire. The truth of the matter is that it was Barak that did so, killing six Hamas militants or freedom fighters, whatever your preference, four months into it, curiously, two months before the Israeli election when Netanyahu was claiming that Kadima was "soft" on the Palestinians. I guess the 1,400 Gazans killed showed him up.

But Oren is the Israeli ambassador and is expected to tow the official Israeli line, whatever it is, and given Israel's past re. its propaganda (hasbara) effort being used to cover and/or justify its occupation and colonialism in the Palestinian territories, it is more often lies and distortion of facts.

So we will just have to disagree on these points.

[LeftishBrit]

7. ZOA is a very RW group; they should not be described or describe themselves simply as 'Zionist'

It's like calling UKIP 'pro-British' or the teabaggers 'pro-American'.

For the rest, I don't approve of academic boycotts, whether of Israel or of the University of California at Irvine.

[shergald]

9. Any group that supports the Likud party or supports its policies, I think right wing Zionist.

Without getting into all the meanings of Zionism, extending from "soft" Zionism (homeland) to Likud (the Eretz Israel dream), ZOA is, just on the basis of its positions, a right wing Zionist group, an extreme one at that. It does not support a Palestinian state, which it claims (see the link in the diary) will become a terrorist state.

And I would not be fooled by Netanyahu's acquiescence to Obama's call for two states, since all of his policy pronouncements concerning it to date, makes clear that only an Apartheid conclusion is possible from them.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. ADL: U.S. Jews mustn't boycott university for heckling of Israel envoy

The United States Jewish community should not boycott a California university over the heckling of Israel's U.S. envoy, Abraham H. Foxman, the national director of the Anti Defamation League said on Thursday.

Last week California police reportedly arrested 12 people Monday after a speech by Israel's ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, descended into chaos.

Hecklers interrupted Oren's lecture at University of California, Irvine more than 10 times, shouting "killers" and "how many Palestinians did you kill?"

Local press reported that Oren took a 20-minute break after the fourth protest, only to be interrupted again by young men yelling at him every few minutes.

"We are deeply disturbed by some in the Jewish community who have responded to the University of California Irvine's handling of anti-Israel activity on campus by encouraging Jewish students and donors to boycott the university," Foxman said.

The ADL chief also said that his organization was "surprised that those who call for a boycott fail to recognize that it is a double-edged sword that legitimizes a tactic so often used against Jews and Israel, particularly in academic settings."

"We believe academic boycotts are inappropriate, harmful and counterproductive, and will not work to resolve the situation on campus," Foxman added.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150832.html

[LeftishBrit]

16. Thanks. A most sensible statement

'The ADL chief also said that his organization was "surprised that those who call for a boycott fail to recognize that it is a double-edged sword that legitimizes a tactic so often used against Jews and Israel, particularly in academic settings."'

Indeed!

[shergald]

14. An interesting followup after Oren's Irvine campus speech.

From of all places, fuckFrance.com, dated Feb 16:

Ambassador Oren Thanks Christians for Supporting Israel

"(IsraelNN.com) Michael Oren, Israeli Ambassador to the United States, thanked 300 pastors and Christian leaders for supporting Israel but noted Israeli "sensitivity" to Messianics. His audience gave him a warm welcome, in contrast to the raucous anti-Zionist reception at the University of California's Irvine campus. University police last week arrested a dozen protesters who at one point prevented Oren from speaking for 20 minutes.

Oren said he came to address a meeting of southern California Christian evangelists "because the Evangelical community in the United States is a very prominent and crucial component of the United States-Israel relationship. It is a component that has proven vital to Israel’s security and well-being in the course of Israel’s existence over the last six decades.”

(snip)

Oren diplomatically ducked taking a firm position on several political positions. Asked if he thinks Christian Evangelists should support building for Jews in Judea and Samaria, Oren replied, “Evangelical Christians have every right to express their political beliefs as do American Jews."

So there we have it: Evangelical Christians do not necessarily support the ethnic cleansing and colonization of the West Bank. Perhaps that is a view only held firmly by James Hagee's loonie group that wants to convert Jews.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

17. There is actually a site...

called fuckfrance.com?

[Violet_Crumble]

18. That site's an eye-opener...

I just clicked on the link and backed out real quick after one of the first comments was about how Arabs rape their herd animals. Really sickening stuff...

[shergald]

19. Some of the comments are really crude.

Reminds me of Little Green Footballs, the Islamophobic hate site, that was also proIsrael to the extreme, Likudish. Palestinians are terrorists and Arabs are dirty scum, that kind of thing, also follows.

[grassfed]

20. good coverage here

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/zoa-calls-for-a-much-different-kind-of-academic-boycott.html

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/israeli-ambassador-michael-orens-speech-disrupted-at-university-of-california-irvine.html

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/student-disruptions-of-israeli-officials-continue-to-make-waves.html

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/in-california-speech-oren-says-barack-hussein-obama.html

[oberliner]

21. Jewish campus groups oppose UC Irvine boycott

Five campus Jewish groups and fraternities say they don't agree with a call to boycott the University of California, Irvine because of tensions involving Muslim students.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/22/state/n083327S58.DTL&type=business#ixzz0gZ27sYbB

[LeftishBrit]

22. Good for them!

Bridge-building, not boycotts!

Incidentally, students at my university have a joint Muslim-Jewish dialogue group called 'MuJews'.

[shergald]

23. Bravo!

[shira]

24. David Horowitz at UCSD 5/10/2010 (YOUTUBE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSvyv0urTE

[IndianaGreen]

25. I am not surprised that you would support a fascist like David Horowitz

as do all the Likudniks in the USA.

[shira]

26. Horowitz isn't the show - what's surprising is how this student was so open and honest

....about her genocidal views.

So much for being "pro-Palestinian".

:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

27. The only genocidal views are those of Israel's government

Sleeping with Horowitz takes the cake!

[shira]

28. Can't say I'm shocked that you don't seem to have a problem with this student's vile hatred...

....masquerading as concern for Palestinians.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Kick a puppy often enough and he will turn and bite you

The Occupation spawned the hatred--Israel's policies alone are responsible for the rise of anti-Semitism in the world.

"Why do they hate us?" Because of what you are doing to them!

[shira]

30. Israel can't do anything to please Hamas, Hezbollah, and their worldwide supporters

...short of committing national suicide.

To believe otherwise is delusional.

[IndianaGreen]

31. Israel played a key role in the rise of Hamas

in order to counter PLO's influence.

[oberliner]

32. Both groups have changed dramatically since then

The PLO was an avowed terror organization and Hamas had not yet embraced terrorism as a tactic.

Israel's support of Hamas was in the 1970's before they formally became Hamas and while the PLO was killing civilians.

[shira]

33. No amount of obfuscation will take away from the fact that many people who claim

...to be pro-peace and human rights WRT the Arab/Israel conflict are in fact hateful, warmongering supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Only an idiot would equate opposition to Occupation to support for Hamas and Hizbollah

And only a rightwinger would find anything positive about David Horowitz, or the Dershman.

[shira]

35. Do you believe that student in the video is only opposed to occupation...

...and does not support Hamas and Hezbollah's warmongering, fascist ideology to kill Jews?

Really now, this obfuscation about Israel being responsible for antisemitism is getting old.

And it wouldn't matter whether it was David Horowitz in the video or David Axelrod.

[IndianaGreen]

36. It does matter that it is David Horowitz on the video, just as it would if it was Ann Coulter

or Michele Malkin.

[shira]

37. More obfuscation. The student was asked a question and she agreed that it would be great

...if all Jews of the world were to gather into Israel to make the job easier for Hezbollah/Iran.

That's some pretty sick shit.

Check out her expression and the way she said it.

That's not someone who is just against occupation.

[proteus_lives]

39. Blame the victim?

:puke:

You would probably be saying the same thing in 1942.

[cali]

38. david horowitz is one of the most disgusting haters in this country

he's frightening- far scarier than the student and far, far, far viler. it's fucking disgusting that you think he's someone to trust or be used in this forum.

[oberliner]

42. In spite of that, this Muslim student attended his speech and asked him a question

I'm not sure why she would respond "For it" to his statement: "The head of Hezbollah has said that he hopes that we will gather in Israel so he doesn’t have to hunt us down globally. For or Against it?"

I understand that this video is making the rounds on the RW media circuit and is being used to provide ammunition for some hateful people on the right. That being said, I don't think the entirety of the incident ought to be ignored simply because Horowitz was the speaker.

It seems that she could have answered that question much more effectively. Presumably, since she attended the Horowtiz talk despite his views, she was interested in challenging some of his claims and arguments.

She could have expressed disgust at the question and state emphatically that of course she does not support violence against Jews and that the implication of the question, that the MSA supports that kind of thing, is insulting and absurd.

She could have turned the tables on Horowitz and asked him if he supported some of the more outlandish statements by the RW leadership in Israel or among the American Jewish community that express a hatred of Muslims or Arabs.

I realize that she is just a student, and Horowitz had the podium and the power; however, I do not believe "for it" was a particular helpful response. Did she really mean she was "for" the quoted Hezbollah statement or was she just flummoxed by the questioning? The way she makes the statement, she seems pretty clear and confident, but it's not always clear on these videos what is really going on.

[IndianaGreen]

47. The point is that you guys are propagating a David Horowitz video

and you probably do so because you all share Horowitz's fascist views.

What's next, Ann Coulter? Michele Malkin?

[oberliner]

48. Thank you for your thoughtful response

Here are the student's comments on her statement:

http://fortruthforjustice.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/ucsd-muslim-student-responds-to-david-horowitz-event/

[proteus_lives]

40. The OP has received a pizza delivery.

Good riddance.

[ConsAreLiars]

41. Being on the wrong side,

in this forum, carries that risk.

[oberliner]

43. No it doesn't

Not following the rules of the site carries that risk.

[proteus_lives]

44. Yep. it does.

Being Pro-Israel is considered a serious thought-crime by most on DU.

[Tripmann]

45. Are you accusing 'most on DU' of being anti-Israel??

[proteus_lives]

46. Yep.

[Tripmann]

50. Anti-israel or anti-israels actions?

[proteus_lives]

51. Anti-Israel.

[Tripmann]

52. Ah, I see

Just like having a problem with the bush admin made people anti-american.

Any particular users or are you just branding DU in general as anti-israel?

[proteus_lives]

53. Twisting it isn't going to work.

People have hated Israel since the beginning.

The same complaints, accusations and lies that float around on this website are heirs of the same that were printed on pamphlets back in the day.

There is real difference in between being anti-Israel and opposing actions they take. If you read-up on the subject, you can tell the two apart.

[Tripmann]

55. So now its hating israel?

Strange how things work around here. You can't accuse an individual of being anti-israel but you can call DU anti-israel.

And now you're tainting the board by saying the same anti-semitic filth that were on pamphlets 'back in the day' floats around it.

Strange that you associate yourself with and clock up 1000+ posts on an anti-israel website, isn't it?

[proteus_lives]

57. There is plenty of evidence.

Use the search feature. Leg-work is your friend. Or just pay attention to the I/P forum and you'll see all the evidence you'll need.

"Strange that you associate yourself with and clock up 1000+ posts on an anti-israel website, isn't it?"

Not really, I'm not a one-issue guy. I can agree with someone on one issue and disagree with them on another. It's a big site and a big party.

[Tripmann]

58. Well I really don't know what to look for using the search function

After all you haven't been very specific, just generalisations about your fellow members here at DU.

Any pamphlets 'from a certain era' I'm aware of were anti-semitic rather than anti-israel. Are those the ones you're talking about?

[proteus_lives]

59. I'm talking about the ones....

That are anti-semitic under the guise of being anti-Israel. It's a very common meme.

Generalizations? Observations actually. I've been a member for awhile now and I've been a reader for several years more. I wouldn't be making the statement if I just dropped in yesterday.

[Tripmann]

60. So you're accusing DU of anti-semitism under the guise of anti-israel?

[proteus_lives]

61. There are many who have many posts like that, yes.

[shaayecanaan]

49. You can sing Hatikvah stark naked in Times Square for all I bloody care...

the same goes for most people here, I would imagine. Personally, I could never imagine myself contacting the Polish embassy and warning them against featuring a particular speaker that I happened to dislike. But then again, not everyone is as much committed to free speech as I am.

[aranthus]

54. What does this mean? n/t

[bemildred]

56. Tombstone pizza

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=195744