Israeli chief rabbi visits mosque that was torched

[oberliner]

YASUF, West Bank — Israel's chief rabbi made a rare visit to a Palestinian village on Monday to condemn the torching of a mosque allegedly by Jewish extremists, saying the attack brought back memories of the Holocaust.

The visit by an Israeli dignitary to a Palestinian village, along with the reference to the emotionally charged issue of the Holocaust, reflected the depth of concern caused by last week's mosque attack. Israeli leaders have been scrambling to reduce tensions.

There have been no arrests from last Friday's blaze. But authorities believe Jewish extremists carried out the attack in retaliation for a government-ordered slowdown in settlement construction. The attackers burned prayer carpets and a book stand with Muslim holy texts, leaving Hebrew graffiti on the floor.

During his trip to Yasuf, Rabbi Yona Metzger said that religious sites should be left outside any political dispute. He said the arson was especially troubling to Jews because their holy places were targeted in attacks by the Nazis.

"There were hundreds of synagogues. They took all of the holy books out onto the street and burned them," Metzger said. "We are still living this trauma. And in the state of Israel we will not allow a Jew to do something like this to Muslims."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqJlTDRyU9klt2hwZ7i76R2JIl3QD9CJ62Q01

[no_hypocrisy]

1. The circle is complete when you become what you hate.

This act is not recognized as anything remotely resembling the practice and beliefs of Judaism.

[Violet_Crumble]

2. Do you agree with him evoking the Holocaust? n/t

[aranthus]

3. Yes.

Apparently what he said was along the lines of "This is how the Holocaust began." The Ha'aretz article says he was likening the attack to Kristallnacht. Now, I don't think he meant that it was physically the same as either the Kristallnacht or the Holocaust (nobody was injured, and it was obviously only one attack, not a nationwide rampage). But I think he meant to equate the hatefulness of this act and the Kristallnacht. Even though no one was physically injured, this was reprehensible.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Thanks, but I want Oberliner's response on this...

See, any time anyone makes even an indirect reference to Germans, WWII or the Holocaust, there he is going on about how he wishes people would quit bringing up the Holocaust, WWII Nazis, etc into the discussion. What I've noticed though, is that he only ever appears and says that when it's pro-Palestinians, not when it's anyone he thinks is 'pro-Israeli'. So I really want to know why it's okay for Israel's chief Rabbi to evoke what was the beginning of the Holocaust, but it's not okay for anyone who supports Palestinian self-determination to do so..

fwiw, I do agree with what you said, and do think he's equating the hatefullness and sense of superiority to what happened back then. I also think that if anyone had been present at the time, and if the extremists had been able to coordinate things better, there could have been bloodshed this time round as well...

[azurnoir]

6. Me too because apparently it's ok in this case for a Jew

to compare other Jews to Nazi's

[oberliner]

13. No

Holocaust comparisons are not appropriate as far as I am concerned.

Good that he went to visit the mosque though.

Of course the most important thing would be for the criminals to be identified and arrested.

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Why aren't you consistant about it, then?

It's very clear that you speak out against it without being promoted ONLY when it comes to supporters of Palestinians doing the comparing, but I've seen many Nazi comparisons made by supporters of Israel where you don't say a word against it...

[ProgressiveMuslim]

5. I wondered the same thing. nt

[shira]

7. there's a difference b/w accusing the Israeli govt (and people) of being Nazis vs these thugs

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. Were the IDF soldiers who vandalized people's homes in Gaza like Nazis?

Are those who wear the T-shirts mocking the IDF killing of pregnant Palestinians women like Nazis?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. Here's a link to the shirts, and the vandalism, to refresh your memory.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israeli-Army-T-Shirts-Mock-Killing-Palestinian-Women-And-Children-During-Gaza-Offensive/Article/200903315245946?f=rss

"1 shot, 2 kills" (commemorates shooting pregnant women)


Here's a link to the home vandalism:

"Pots of urine, feces on the walls - how IDF troops vandalized Gaza homes"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1068989.html

[shira]

10. no - they're stupid punks. Do you think they're like nazis?

do you think Hamasniks who fire rockets at Sderot are like nazis?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. So the thing that makes Israeli behavior Nazi-like is what?

When it's directed to a House of worship?

I'm seriously trying to clarify.

[shira]

12. first, answer me - I answered you

[oberliner]

14. I'd love to get a better understanding of why the Israel/Nazi Germany analogy is so appealing to you

I believe it is fair to say that you have embraced various components of it on more than one occasion.

When one starts using the word "Untermenschen" one has applied the analogy to Israel in a truly pervasive way.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. I've been to Yad Vashem.

When I walk through the section on the early Nazi years, I found myself wondering if I was the only person seeing the obvious: that the Israeli dehumanization of Palestinians resembles what went on in Nazi Germany. For me the "never again" lesson to humanity is: looks what can happen when we delude ourselves into thinking that some people aren't fully human.

I'm not saying Israel is involved in mass extermination of Palestinians. I'm not even saying that the Holocaust wasn't among the worst events in modern history. I'm not saying the Holocaust is not, or should not be, a shared experience that in part defines modern Jewishness.

But (and please don't think I'm alone in wondering this) how can a people who suffered that turn around and utterly dehumanize another group of people?

It's fascinating to me... cycles of violence and all.... And clearly, although it's banned here, it's a widely accepted enough point of comparison that rabbis in Israel make it. I think it's ridiculous that it's banned here, and quite hypocritical that your OP wasn't locked.

I posted something recently about activists questioning Elie Weisel about Gaza, questions which he ignored. I think it's pretty significant that a (if not THE) seminal moral figure in modern Jewish thought couldn't bother to answer that question. The OP disappeared. Why? Can I not question Elie Weisel? Is he God? Is he Jesus Christ himself?

What bugs me in the DU is the rank hypocrisy of it. Israelis can act like Nazis, but in DU-land, the greater crime is to label it such.

It's nuts.

[oberliner]

16. Thank you for sharing your thoughts

I realize you are not alone in your musings, and I appreciate your taking the time to present your perspective.

Personally I think that the term "Nazi" is thrown around all too frequently and not just in relation to this conflict. It is a particular pet peeve of mine, for instance, when someone casually calls someone a "nazi" if they are particularly strict or stubborn or just plain mean. I feel like it demeans and devalues the truth.

More pertinently, I feel that it is in very poor taste to your this terminology with respect to this conflict (and apparently the moderators of this site agree with that to some extent). I know you and I (and others) have exchanged posts on this topics before, so I won't derail this thread covering familiar ground.

If you (or anyone else) want(s) to discuss this more fully, please feel free to send me a PM.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

17. I have no wish to discuss further, just think it's wrong that your OP wasn't locked.

If a Sheik had called the settlers Nazis, the OP would be locked.

[oberliner]

18. It definitely would not be locked

Ahmadinejad says Zionist crimes same as Nazi crimes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x109663

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. January of '06? What do you do, bookmark your fave threads?

[oberliner]

20. Just did a quick search

I figured Ahmedinejdad was a safe bet for someone who would have compared Israel to Nazis.