Jewish lawmaker likens Israel to Nazis

[bemildred]

LONDON: A veteran British Jewish lawmaker compared the Israeli offensive in Gaza yesterday to the Nazis who forced his family to flee from Poland.

Gerald Kaufman, a member of the Jewish Labour movement linked to Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s ruling party, also called for an arms embargo against Israel. “My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town .. a German soldier shot her dead in her bed,” Kaufman said during a parliamentary debate on the 20-day-old war which has left over 1,000 dead.

“My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza.

“The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians.” Israel’s claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants “was the reply of the Nazi,” he said, adding: “I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.”

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=United+Kingdom+%26+Europe&month=January2009&file=World_News2009011612457.xml

[babylonsister]

1. Whoa. Harsh. His argument makes sense. nt

[bemildred]

30. The problem is that in the present circumstances, if one is not well-acquainted

with the historical facts, the comparison comes all too readily to hand. One can only regret that the Israeli government has not chosen, like Caesar's wife, to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

[LakeSamish706]

2. Kudos to Gerald Kaufman for this.... This has to be stopped and those responsible....

from both sides need to be brought to justice for this.

[Andy823]

3. There seems to be a lot

Of prominent Jews coming out against what Israel is doing, and yet they keep on doing it. Those in charge of this need to be taken before a court and prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

[GoesTo11]

4. Well, now that a Jew has said it, it's ok for everyone!

Have fun!

[EFerrari]

5. What utter cr@p. Do you want a hanky with that fake pre-emptive outrage?

People all over the world have been protesting this mindless aggression including many, many Jews.

People of conscience, no matter who they are, are speaking up.

[GoesTo11]

8. The self-hater knew he gives cover for some people

[EFerrari]

9. Tired, limp, non-responsive smear. n/t

[GoesTo11]

10. Non-responsive?

There was nothing to respond to. No, I don't want a hanky.

[EFerrari]

11. I don't wish you harm, GoesTo11. This just needs to stop. n/t

[Howardx]

12. you seem to be an expert 11

what makes all these jews that oppose israels actions "self haters"? are there jewish self haters who support israel? or is NOT supporting israel the main criteria for your diagnosis of "self hatred"?

[GoesTo11]

In my expert opinion

it's bringing out the Nazi terminology. Thanks for noticing!

[Howardx]

14. so

the nazi terminology is perfectly ok as long as its used IN SUPPORT of israel, ie recent statements about iran by israeli leaders? but its a sign of a jew who hates themselves if its used in opposition to israels actions?

[GoesTo11]

19. to clarify

It would not be a sign of a Jew who hates themselves if they talk about Iran in nazi terms. I'm not a big fan of using the nazi terminology in support of Israel either - although when Iran's president talks about wiping Israel off the map, he's kind of raised the rhetorical stakes.

[Howardx]

20. this has nothing to do with the iranian president

who raised the "rhetorical stakes" first is up for debate. you cleverly avoided answering my question, kudos.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. Are the settlers also self-hating when they apply that sort of terminology

to the IDF, on the rare occasion when they actually stand up to them?

[JuniperLea]

26. They only put words to what many were too fearful to say...

But the fact remains, it's in the same league no matter how outraged you are.

[grassfed]

25. the trick is to steer the conversation away from the atrocities and toward childish tit for tat

But we all read the OP.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. Anyone with an opinion that differs from yours is a "self-hater"?

That's an awefully convenient way of cutting off any form of debate and dismissing any dissent. Frankly, he sounds to me like he likes himself just fine. :shrug:

[GoesTo11]

27. Just this one specific opinion

If someone likes jalapeno peppers on their pizza, it doesn't tell anything about them. But when a Jew goes out of his way to compare Israel to Nazi Germany, it's hatred of his own people. He could criticize Israel perfectly well without bringing up the murderers of Jews. The man wants so badly to show the world that he's not like the Jews that he goes out and uses big scary words about them. Hope he's happy with the attention and the love he's getting from the likes of

[JuniperLea]

28. Wouldn't it just mean he's hating the current actions...

Of which he speaks? You think he hates all Jews because he's speaking out against one war?

Puhleeeeeze.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. So, many of the radical settlers are self-hating Jews as well

since they tend to compare their government and military to Nazis when they carry out policies unfriendly to their endeavors.

Am I a self-hating American if I compare Chimpy to Hitler?

[GoesTo11]

31. The radical settlers should shut up

When they go throwing around nazis, they are cheapening their own history. I think there you've got a little bit of self-hatred mixed with a little too much self-love.

I think you would be a self-hating American if you compared Bush with Ghandi.

[razors edge]

33. I have never understood the

self hate argument against a Jewish person who speaks out against Israel's actions.

It asserts the actions of Israel as the actual being or soul of all Jews and as such they must certainly hate themselves if they disagree with those actions.

It makes about as much sense as calling an African slave a self hater because they tried to avoid capture by one of their fellow Africans trying to force them into slavery, as many did.

My only thought when I hear the self hater spiel is that here is another one of those "us or them" people, someone who would sacrifice anyone not of their little club, right or wrong, to further whatever agenda is at issue. It makes the user of such a phrase sound more racist than anyone they could ever accuse of antisemitism.

I find the whole idea of using this approach cheap and dishonorable.

[Sezu]

32. It always seems to be a plus around here when the

Nazi card can get played so innocently by finding a Jew to do it for you. You can almost hear the purring.

[cali]

6. Jewish or not

that doesn't make the comparison accurate. What I wonder about this guy was did he use the same language and comparison regarding his country's participation in the attack on Iraq.

[EFerrari]

7. He compared sick people to sick people and trapped people to trapped people.

He was very careful, in fact. I wouldn't make the comparison but then, my grandmother died peacefully in her bed unlike his.

[bemildred]

15. Gerald Kaufman

---

Israel

Kaufman, who is himself Jewish, is a member of the Jewish Labour Movement<5> formerly Poale Zion, a pro-Zionist group affiliated with the Labour party in Britain. He has become one of the leading Jewish critics of Israel. Kaufman has called for economic sanctions and an arms ban against Israel, citing the success of such measures against apartheid South Africa.<6> He has called Israel a "pariah"<7> and its senior politicians "war criminals."<8><9> In 2002 he created a BBC television documentary,<10> The End of the Affair, in which he recounted his youthful infatuation with Israel and his eventual disillusionment.<11>

In April 2002 during Israel's controversial military operation codenamed Defensive Wall, Kaufman gave a speech to the House of Commons, saying in part:

It is time to remind Sharon that the star of David belongs to all Jews, not to his repulsive Government. His actions are staining the star of David with blood. The Jewish people, whose gifts to civilised discourse include Einstein and Epstein, Mendelssohn and Mahler, Sergei Eisenstein and Billy Wilder, are now symbolised throughout the world by the blustering bully Ariel Sharon, a war criminal implicated in the murder of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila camps and now involved in killing Palestinians once again.<12>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Kaufman

[bemildred]

16. Gerald Kaufman

The Right Honourable Sir Gerald Bernard Kaufman (born June 21, 1930) is a British Labour Member of Parliament who was a government minister during the 1970s. He is now Chairman of the House of Commons Culture, Media and Sports Select Committee. He is known as a moderate, and a supporter of Tony Blair's reforms. He infamously called the Labour Party's left-wing 1983 election manifesto <1> "the longest suicide note in history".

---

He was a minister throughout Labour's time in power in the 1970s, first in the Department of the Environment, then in the Department of Industry. In opposition he became Shadow Home Secretary and Shadow Foreign Secretary. In 1992 he went to the back benches and became Chair of what was then the National Heritage committee.

---

Kaufman is an outspoken opponent of hunting with hounds. He is also a leading member of Poale Zion an international Zionist-socialist Jewish group affiliated to the Labour party in Britain. Nonetheless, he has become one of the leading Jewish critics of Israel. He has often accused Sharon's government of having a poor human rights record, and of failing to solve the security problems faced by both Israelis and Palestinians. Kaufman has called for economic sanctions and an arms ban against Israel, citing the success of such measures against apartheid South Africa<2>. A fox hunt Fox hunting is a form of hunting for foxes using a pack of scent hounds. ... Labour Friends of Israel is a Westminister based pro-Israel lobby group working within the UK Labour Party. ... For other meanings, please see Zionism (disambiguation) Poster promoting a film about Jewish settlement in Palestine, 1930s: Toward a New Life (in Romanian),The Promised Land (in Hungarian) 1844 Discourse on the Restoration of the Jews by Mordecai Noah, page one. ... // The word Jew (Hebrew: יהודי transliterated: Yehudi) is used in many ways, but generally refers to a follower of Judaism, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture or ethnicity; and often a combination of these attributes. ... ▶(?) Hebrew: �רי�ל שרון (born February 27, 1928) is the eleventh and current Prime Minister of Israel, serving from March 2001. ... A segregated beach in South Africa, 1982. ...

Kaufman voted in favour of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In 2004 he was assaulted by a group of pro-fox hunting campaigners and subjected to anti-Semitic taunts, which he found ironic as he had recently been accused of being a self-hating Jew by member of the Board of Deputies of British Jews.<3> Gerald Kaufman was awarded a knighthood for services to Parliament in the Queen's Birthday Honours in 2004.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Gerald-Kaufman

[azurnoir]

13. well I will give a plus on that last sentance

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools,” he added.

I suppose in the strictest of legalities the Israeli government are not guilty of war crimes as such but what is legal is not necessarily what is moral

[bemildred]

18. Well, I do look forward to his incarceration for hate speech.

:sarcasm:

[DogPoundPup]

17. The Dennis Kucinich of Israeli lawmakers ~

[Howardx]

21. he is a british jew

in parliament not an israeli in the knesset.

[DogPoundPup]

22. oh, ...............

:)

[okiru109]

34. hmmm... wonder what ever gave him that idea?

hopefully he won't be tomb-stoned for it though.