WaPo: 100 Survivors Rescued in Gaza From Ruins Blocked by Israelis

[Barack_America]

Warning: Prepare to be outraged and possibly sickened.

100 Survivors Rescued in Gaza From Ruins Blocked by Israelis
Relief Agencies Fear More Are Trapped, Days After Neighborhood Was Shelled

By Craig Whitlock and Reyham Abdel Kareem
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, January 9, 2009; Page A01

JERUSALEM, Jan. 8 -- Emergency workers said they rescued 100 more trapped survivors Thursday and found between 40 and 50 corpses in a devastated residential block south of Gaza City that the Israeli military had kept off-limits to the International Committee of the Red Cross for four days.

Relief agencies said they feared more people remained in the rubble of several shattered houses in the Zaytoun neighborhood. Red Cross officials said that they began receiving distress calls from people in the houses late Saturday but that they were blocked by the Israeli military from reaching the area until Wednesday.

In an interview at al-Quds Hospital, a Red Cross medical center in Gaza, Abuzaid said rescue workers found 16 bodies Wednesday in a large room of a house in Zaytoun: seven women, six children and three men, all members of the al-Samuni family.

Most had sustained trauma injuries from shelling, but many had gunshot wounds as well, he said. Four children, weak but alive, were found lying under blankets, nestled next to their dead mothers, Abuzaid said. Red Cross officials had said earlier that 12 adult bodies had been found in the house but otherwise corroborated Abuzaid's account.

<snip>

The Red Cross has accused the Israeli military of repeatedly refusing to grant permission for ambulances to go to Zaytoun, even though soldiers were stationed outside the damaged houses and were aware people were wounded inside. In a statement issued early Thursday, the agency called the episode "unacceptable" and said the Israeli military had "failed to meet its obligation under international humanitarian law to care for and evacuate the wounded."...

More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/08/AR2009010804118.html?sid=ST2009010900270&s_pos=

This is by far the worst account I've heard of this incident. This is unbelievable. I don't know what else to say other than, this is self-defense?

[Lithos]

1. Make no mistake.

This is war and once again civilians are paying for the hard line tactics on both sides. Once the dogs of war are let lose, suffering and misery are just a matter of time. This is why I hate war and those whose reaction is towards a gun.

[Barack_America]

2. But isn't that why certain acts have been designated as "war crimes"?

To prevent the dismissal of such civilian suffering?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. The UN is now talking about investigations for war crimes by the Israelis

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=243123

[Lithos]

9. Not quite

The international prosecution of war crimes comes down to a case where there was an explicit policy or plan to perform any of those actions listed as such including directly targeting civilians, targeting medical personnel, using civilians as shields, etc. Collateral damage is not considered a war crime. Also, there is no requirement for placing any member of an army at risk to save civilians in a war zone.

When placed between two opposing forces, civilians are almost always going to come out poorly especially when the fight is close in and in an urban area. This is the ghastly spectre which overshadows those who talk war instead of peace.

[Barack_America]

11. Yes, that is very true.

Despite efforts to protect civilians, they are inevitably going to be affected. But in this instance, IMO, it doesn't seem like Israel is doing very much at all to even attempt to protect them.

[Lithos]

12. I think the indifference is on both sides

Frankly, there are so many things wrong at the moment with the attitudes of all players and any civilians caught in the middle are going to suffer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. The accusation here is that they deliberately blocked access to the wounded

and with the accusations coming from the Red Cross/Red Crescent, and B'Tselem, they should be taken seriously. It may not be a war crime by the Israeli leadership - just a local commander.

[The Magistrate]

4. This Particular Event, Sir, Is Beginning To Take On A Distinctly Ugly Aspect

While cascading errors remain the most likely root of the thing, negligence of sufficient scale becomes criminal in own right.

[bemildred]

5. I think this leads back to the point here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x242759

Fundamentally, the absence of military discipline, and failure at the political level. This is a subject we have discussed before, and that Mr van Creveld brought up.

[The Magistrate]

7. Indeed, Sir

That is an interesting article, and points to real problems in the military culture.

[Lithos]

10. Negligence or Indifference?

I understand that the only moral difference is which level of hell you burn or freeze in, but there is a difference in terms of explaining what is going on. I personally do not think it is negligence, but rather an indifference which permeates this entire conflict. Civilians are more a tool to be used, or a problem to be avoided.

L-

[The Magistrate]

13. It Is a Nice Distinction, Sir

The two things feed into one another. People who are indifferent are seldom painstaking and punctilious, as it behooves people directing masses of explosives to be.

I do think over the course of literally generations of war people on both sides have come to regard the other a something not quite human, certainly not quite 'people like us', and this has a pernicious effect on conduct.

But as you know, one of my guiding principles in attempting to understand military events is the essentially chaotic nature of military operations in conflict, and the routine occurrance of cock-ups and worse. Nothing surprises me so much as something seemingly coming off without a hitch according to plan.

[Lithos]

14. They are close

To me negligence is knowing you should be doing something, but don't care. Indifference is just not caring.

You can easily see it in the behaviors of both sides. The IDF has suffered greatly from the years of occupation duty and I'm sure are feeling the effects well noted in the 1971 Stamford prison experiment. The NY Times article under discussion http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x242819"]here does a good job of discussing another type of contempt and indifference.

Given the closeness and fluidity of urban assault, the para-military background of Hamas, and the willingness of Hamas to integrate themselves in with the civilian population, there will be mistakes. However, the lack of desire to take that extra step to help and protect the innocent is indicative of gross indifference. However, for those cases where soldiers know better for a given situation and still do nothing, then I do think it is negligence or worse.

L-

[The Magistrate]

15. That Is a Very Striking Article, Sir

But instructive, for people who care to see.

One of the difficulties that seems to stand out to me in discussion of this topic is that many involved in it have no capacity to 'bellyfeel' what fanatic dedication is, and so they miss a lot of what goes on where fanaticism takes violent form. It is one of the reasons I still miss our old friend Mr. Absynthe: that was something he understood....

[Lithos]

16. I miss him too

There is a long story there somewhere.

L-

[MasonJar]

3. Why did the Senate vote unanimous support for Israel? Even the

Israeli citizens are not even close to 100% in their support and Jewish citizens around this country are actually rallying against the invasiona and its tactics. It does not seem to matter how hard we work; our reps in DC are always losers or followers of the losers.

[Barack_America]

6. And why is the U.S. isolating itself from the international community for Israel?

Apparently even France and the UK were floored when the U.S. abstained from voting on the UN cease-fire demand last night.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/10/un-gaza-resolution-us-abstention