UN: IDF officers admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school which was shelled

[Barack_America]

UN: IDF officers admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school which was shelled

By Barak Ravid and Akiva Eldar, Haaretz Correspondent

UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness told Haaretz yesterday that the army had conceded wrongdoing.

"In briefings senior officers conducted for foreign diplomats, they admitted the shelling to which IDF forces in Jabalya were responding did not originate from the school," Gunness said. "The IDF admitted in that briefing that the attack on the UN site was unintentional."

He noted that all the footage released by the IDF of militants firing from inside the school was from 2007 and not from the incident itself.

"There are no up-to-date photos," Gunness said. "In 2007, we abandoned the site and only then did the militants take it over."

The UNRWA is now demanding an objective investigation into whether the school shelling constituted a violation of international humanitarian law, and if so, that those responsible stand trial....

Link: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html

[JuniperLea]

1. How are we to believe liars once they have so completely lied?

I can't. There is no way to cherry pick only the truth, and it's dangerous to assume there is any truth after such blatant and horrific lies are told.

And I don't believe embedded journalists either.

[ShadesOfGrey]

3. I can't either...

when a source gets caught lying more than a couple of times, I can't help but lose my trust in them.

[Barack_America]

4. They're also claiming that today's bombing of the Press TV offices was a "mistake"...

http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/20090109_israel_gaza_tv_satellite_office_hit_rocket_strikes_2_iran_tv

My, my that's an awful lot of "mistakes" piling up there. FWIW, Al Jazeera reported earlier today that the building's antenna was the only target.

So which is it, was it a target or not?

[IndianaGreen]

7. Israel is a fraking "mistake"

that's the message the world is getting now!

Time for the UN to repartition the land.

[JuniperLea]

8. All the while boasting of their flawless intelligence...

And the accuracy of their weaponry.

It doesn't fit. There's something very wrong.

[The Magistrate]

11. This Is A Tricky Business To Un-Ravel, Ma'am

It has been interesting to follow the news accounts of it over the last couple of days.

There was a report in the New York Times quoting a young Palestinian to the effect that he had with his older brother answered an appeal to assist in piling sandbags to protect resistance fighters near the school, and the young man named at least one such fighter he knew by sight. The account does not disclose, however, who interviewed this person.

A number of reports have referred to both firing at Israeli forces, and Israeli shelling, occurring 'outside' the school, with many of the casualties described as being persons hit outside the school. Unfortunately 'outside' can take in a lot of ground, and gives no solid information regarding proximity.

There is no agreement about what the Israelis fired in news accounts; some say mortar shells, some say missiles. Similarly there is no agreement about what Hamas people fired in the accounts; some say mortars, some say rockets.

There is little doubt in my mind by now that the initial Israeli claim fire was coming from within the school grounds was a reflexive lie, once confronted with the fact of Israeli ordnance striking the school. There is at least agreement in the accounts that militants were operating near the school, and the accounts suggest Israeli ordnance struck around the school, as well as within its grounds.

The question becomes the familiar one of whether there was deliberate targeting of the school, or errant fire landing there. Accident is not necessarily a sufficient defense, for it opens the question of whether sufficient care was taken to avoid harm to non-combatants. If the fire came from Israeli mortars, on the authority of a front-line junior commander, that possibility looms large: mortars are not very accurate weapons, when all is said and done, even in well-trained hands, and targeting information at that level may well have been very sketchy.

[JuniperLea]

14. All that said...

It would do them well to stop boasting of their fire power and accuracy... in weaponry and intelligence.

[The Magistrate]

15. People Should Never Boast, Ma'am

As the saying goes, "It ain't bragging if you can do it!" but usually, people cannot do it.

The proportion of Israeli soldiers killed in this operation by friendly fire is sufficient indication that nothing has changed about SNAFU being the general condition of warfare.

[Barack_America]

16. I think that's an excellent account of the incident.

I'm reasonably sure that something was going on near the school.

I've also no doubt that the school itself was hit (there are, after all, images of destroyed classrooms). But most of the images of casualties from the incident do appear to be outside the school.

The most likely explanation for the event (and perhaps the entire war) is negligence on both parts, with absolutely no one giving the citizens of Gaza proper consideration. But Israel's problem here is that, while few nations expect much from Hamas in this regard (largely due to Israel's own PR war against them), this sort of incident is a terrible blow to Israel's image.

[Arrowhead2k1]

2. They know they're in deep shit over this and they have no evidence to back up their initial LIE.

So they are now going to with the "it was an accident" approach. Any competent lawyer would advise them to take this route at this point to try to save their own skin.

Let the investigation continue. We'll get the real truth eventually.

[Idealism]

5. How 'unintentional' could it be when Israel is touting their weapon accuracy?

[JuniperLea]

6. Exactly... they can't have it both ways...

This is beginning to sound far too much like Bush's lying us into war.

[Arrowhead2k1]

9. And as long as they keep getting away with it, it's never going to stop!

[JuniperLea]

13. I feel the same way...

It's like prosecuting BushCo... either he's prosecuted and jailed for his crimes, or the next evil bastard will be far worse.

It's human nature... the more you get away with, the more you get away with.

[Idealism]

10. Which is what I have been saying since this started

False pretense.

Rocket fire from Gaza since the June 19th cease-fire was almost non-existent up until November 5th. On November 4th, the ticking tunnel raids killed 6 Hamas policemen and within hours Qassam's were seen heading into Israel. They claim this attack is to take out rocket fire that wasn't there until they killed Palestinians by forcing their way into Gaza. Not to mention the cease-fire was contingent upon Israel easing the blockade, opening the boarders, and allowing the industrial diesel into the Strip (at levels their supreme court demanded, yet Israel refused to do, and still refuses). None of the Israeli concessions were met, but you still didn't see rocket fire from Hamas until after the tunnel raids. They claim these raids did not violate the truce, yet Palestinians were the only ones killed from June 19th till November 4th.

[JuniperLea]

12. That about sums it up

That is what I remember as well.