Gaza rocket barrage hits Negev; direct strike on 8-floor Ashdod residence

[oberliner]

A Grad rocket fired by Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip on Thursday scored a direct hit on an eight-floor residential building in the northern Negev city of Ashdod, nearly 40 kilometers from the Hamas-ruled coastal territory.

A total of 16 rockets were fired at the Negev on Thursday, after a relatively quiet night.

The strike on the Ashdod apartment house caused a fire to erupt in the building and seriously damaged the top floor. Rescue workers evacuated all residents, fearing that the building would collapse. The incident ended without physical injuries and the damaged structure still intact.

A number of people were treated for shock, however, many of them children and elderly people.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051858.html

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. 408 dead, 2000+ injured and the rockets still fly.

How many have to die so no Israeli has "shock?"

[shira]

4. you mean, how many Hamas militants have to die?

The militant to civilian killed ratio is well above 80:20 (some estimate better than 90:10), perhaps the most effective military campaign ever waged in the history of warfare due to such a ratio. Let's not pretend all 408 killed are innocent civilians and that Israel is acting barbaric.

If you care for Palestinians, you'd want as many dead Hamas militant terrorists killed as possible. Palestinian life will not improve under Hamas occupation and control.

[Vegasaurus]

6. No, these people think that the "Democratically elected Hamas"

is a great bunch of leaders!

Their citizens have prospered so well under their rule!

[The Magistrate]

16. So You Think, Ma'am, That The Hamas Rocketing Is A Good Thing?

No one has to die to stop it; the Hamas leadership could stop it with a word of command, and could have done so at any time over the previous months....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

18. Where Did I Say I Thought It Was A Good Thing?

I said Israel's bloodbath is not very effective in its stated goal of "stopping the rockets."

We all know the way to stop the rockets is to negotiate.

How many will have to die before Israel chooses to sit at the table?

[The Magistrate]

19. Your Comments Touching On It, Ma'am, Simply Sound So Happy And Cheerful

The only thing that will stop the rocketry is a decision by leaders of Hamas to refrain from actions designed to bring harm to the people of Arab Palestine in the interests of furthering their own careers as militant zealots. Negotiation with anyone but their inner demons is unnecessary for that decision to be made. Hamas has no interest in negotiating any practicable settlement, and would view any negotiation merely as a platform to issue various propaganda statements to a wider audience....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. Is It Not Outrageously Presumptuous For You To Ascribe "Cheer" To My Written Statement of Horror?

In what universe could you interpret "How many have to die so no Israeli has 'shock?'" as cheerful?

We are on the phone daily with familiy and friends, checking on their condition. I don't think there is a single person on this forum who has more to gain by the CESSATION of the MASSACRE than I do. There are people I love with my whole heart who are in daily danger that is difficult to comprehend.

Stick to what you know and leave my "feelings" out of it.

[The Magistrate]

21. The Affect Of Your Comments, Ma'am, Is Open To Any Who Reads Them

And what they convey is a sense of cheering on armed struggle by Arab Palestine, which is currently being pressed by small unguided rockets lofted into southern Israel. The only conceivable purpose behind the firing of these rockets is to provoke the Israeli government into the sort of major military action it has launched recently, an action which the persons controlling the firing teams calculate will work to their political and personal interests, whatever harm it might do to the people of Arab Palestine simultaneously. Professions of personal angst by people on either side of this question who cast themselves as energetic participants mean little to me; objectively they serve as nothing more than platforms from which to launch propagandist broadsides while reserving the counter-stroke of crying 'But I CARE!!!' when called on that.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

24. These events are not an abstraction. There are 417 dead, 2000+ wounded and STILL the

rockets fly.

This massacre is not going to crush Hamas or the resistance.

Time to adopt a new strategy.

How's that for clear?

[The Magistrate]

25. You Are Quite Right It Is Time To Adopt A New Strategy, Ma'am

Hamas needs one badly, since its campaign of religious militancy has brought only grave harm to the people of Arab Palestine, however well it may have served the careerist interests of its chiefs and gun-men. At least, it needs one if the well-being of the people of Arab Palestine, and satisfaction of their legitimate aspirations, is the goal of the organization's leadership. Evidence available raises considerable doubt over that....

[azurnoir]

30. So sir by implication are you saying that

only Hamas need change, Israels tactics are fine or right, or is it more the simple reality that Israel can keep up the bombardment as long as it pleases or various politicians find it "profitable" to do so?

[The Magistrate]

31. My Comments, Ma'am, Are Generally Tailored To the Person Addressed

Who strikes me as, shall we say, over-enthusiastic about the merits and benefits of 'struggle' on the part of Arab Palestinian militants.

It would be nice if the stronger party in a conflict showed magnanimity, and from the security of its strength made concessions to a weaker party that would obviate many of the weaker's grievances, and so secure the stronger's own leading objectives with a minimum of disturbance: that is the stuff of statesmanship and sainthood. But these qualities would not be so hailed when they appeared if they did not do so rarely, and expecting good, even decent, behavior from human beings is to condemn oneself to a life of disappointment. The general and expected case is that the stronger party in a conflict makes demands, and the weaker party accepts them or pays the cost of its defiance till either it cannot be borne any longer, or there is nothing left to pay with, and then in either case the stronger obtains in the end what it has pressed for all along. The futility of the violence employed by Hamas is obvious to any dispassionate onlooker, as is the suffering it calls down on the people of Arab Palestine, and the fact that the only sensible motivation for that violence is precisely to provoke that harm to the people of Arab Palestine, as it serves political and careerist interests of the Hamas leadership and militants.

[Vegasaurus]

32. This "over-enthusiasm" for struggle and resistance

is seen on this forum all the time.

As if the Palestinians will ever get their state by violence and resistance.

While there are posters who point out the "asymmetrical" aspects of this conflict all the time, they fail to see the assymetry also gives the weaker party less bargaining party than the stronger.

Hamas's futility is that they don't understand this, and continue to make demands as if they were the stronger party.

And they continue to use violence, despite the harm it causes its citizens.

THe supporters of this struggle should look at the people who are being harmed.

Violence has brought poverty and misery, at increasing rates.

It is definitely time for a new approach.

Hopefully that will happen for the Palestninans in 2009.

[The Magistrate]

33. It Is Not A Fault On Only One Side, Ma'am

You may forgive me for posting a copy of some earlier comments, to save myself the trouble of duplication over the same points....

The actions of both sides here fail the fundamental test for violence.

The first question anyone contemplating a violent course must ask and answer, with ruthless honesty and calculation, is whether or not the goal desired can actually be obtained by the course of violence contemplated.

Neither side's stated goals can be obtained by the violence being pressed. Hamas cannot, by use of the capacity for violence at its disposal, force any alteration of Israeli policy it might desire, let alone destroy the Israeli state and restore Jerusalem and the rest to Moslem rule. Israel cannot, by use of the capacity for violence at its disposal, compel an end to violence against Israeli citizens emanating from militant bodies of Arab Palestinians, let alone secure a widespread peaceable acceptance of Israel among that people.

The actual, measurable results of each side's employment of violence, in fact, run counter to the stated goals of each. The employment of violence by Hamas only serves to bring cataclysmic harm to the people of Arab Palestine, and weaken it even further in contest with Israel. The employment of violence by Israel only serves to increase bitterness and hostility towards Israel among the people of Arab Palestine, and root these things ever deeper into their society.

In such a situation, it becomes necessary to consider whether stated goals are different from actual goals, and what would fit into that gap on both sides, with a precision that a qualified machinist would be proud to display, is a toxic mixture of careerism and frustration in various proportions afflicting the leadership of both Hamas and Israel....

"Say something once, why say it again?"

[shira]

2. whew....no one killed.......so let's ignore. Next!

:sarcasm:

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. Wow! Israel sure knows how to teach a lesson and achieve an objective, don't they?

Great job!

[shira]

5. right, they should do nothing

and wait until the kassams, grads, and katyushas have more devastating effects.....and then do nothing when that happens too.

[madrchsod]

8. they have blow up the tunnels,masques,and a greenhouse

they have targeted every building that could manufacture these rockets. soon there will be nothing left to blow up

mission accomplished ! now both sides have their wish....they will be relected in the next election

[madrchsod]

7. what the hell are they using for a warhead? an m80?

direct hit and it damaged the top floor?

they`ll run out of rockets soon and start throwing stones

[bemildred]

9. Yeah, I wondered about that.

Maybe a lighter warhead for better range.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Politics as usual in the Middle East

to win political points, Hamas sends rockets to destroy homes in Isreal. To win political points Isreali politicans respond in kind. Meanwhile, towns are destroyed, people injured and killed. When will someone go beyond politics and seriously talk peace?

[LeftishBrit]

11. Sadly true. And not restricted to the Middle East.

'When will someone go beyond politics and seriously talk peace?'

Long overdue.

[Meshuga]

23. When people with the same goal...

...Instead of same ethnicity get together to work on a peaceful solution there is going to be peace. There are people and groups in both sides who are for peaceful solution where both Arab and Jewish states can thrive. Anyone who focus on the blame game and is anti-the-other-side is part of the problem and enabling the violence to continue.

[bemildred]

12. Rocket Lands between Ashkelon and Ashdod

(IsraelNN.com) A rocket launched by terrorists in Hamas-controlled Gaza landed between Ashkelon and Ashdod early Thursday evening. Earlier, a Kassam landed in an open area in the Ashkelon Beach (Hof Ashkelon) region.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/158507

[bemildred]

13. Firebomb Attack near Ariel

(IsraelNN.com) Arabs threw firebombs at an Israeli vehicle on the Trans-Samaria Highway next to Ariel, early on Thursday evening, according to nana/10. The Arabs also burned tires.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/158508

[bemildred]

14. 3 Kassams land in open areas of w. Negev; no casualties or damage

Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip launched three Kassam rockets at the western Negev on Thursday evening.

Two rockets landed in open areas in the Ashkelon region, and the other in an open area in the Sdot Negev region.

No casualties or damage were reported in the attacks.

At least 40 rockets have been fired from the Strip throughout the day.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733135854&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[bemildred]

15. Rocket falls in open spaces in Ashdod, residents suffer shock

A Qassam rocket fired from Gaza fell in open spaces in Ashdod. A number of residents suffered from shock and were treated by paramedics on the scene. (Shmulik Hadad)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3648968,00.html

[bemildred]

17. Cities in Central Region Prepare for Rocket Attacks

(IsraelNN.com) Mayors of cities in the central region are gearing up to prepare their residents for the possibility that they may also have to head for bomb shelters in the near future as terrorists in Hamas-controlled Gaza use missiles with increasingly greater ranges.

Tel Aviv municipal inspectors began Thursday to attach emergency instructions on how to prepare shelters to hundreds of skyscrapers. The websites of Rishon LeTzion and Rehovot have carried similar information.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/158510

[IndianaGreen]

22. Israel, and Israel alone, bears the full blame for all the violence

It was Israel that has cruelly occupied Palestinian lands for 41 years. Israel is reaping what she has sown and, unless Israel withdraws to the pre-1967 borders, Israel may find herself in the ash heap of history as a bankrupt and exhausted America withdraws from global affairs.

[hack89]

26. So Israel provoked the 48 and 67 wars?

that the Arab's were perfectly innocent in their intentions and had no other choice when they waged war?

[IndianaGreen]

27. Israel kept the lands taken in 1967

and won't return them. Add to that Israel's refusal to Palestinians' right of return, coupled with the immigration of Russians to Israel having the most tenuous Jewish linkage, and no historical ties whatsoever to Israel, and you got yourself Permanent Occupation.

[The Magistrate]

28. Neither Side Fulfilled the Requirements Of Resolution 242, Ma'am

Which in any case envisioned both that some of the ground would be retained by Israel, and that the remained would be returned to Egypt and Jordan....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Some not all

Don't you also suporrt keeping them all and then having a single state?