Many Israelis support ineffective violence against Palestinians

[Bragi]

Hard to know how else to interpret this poll...

A poll released Sunday night in Israel showed that 81 per cent of Israelis favoured the action being taken against Hamas, but only 39 per cent thought it was likely to be effective.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081228.wgazaanalysis29/BNStory/Front

Also referenced here...

According to a Ma'agar Mohot poll broadcast Sunday night on Channel 10, 81 percent of Israelis support the war and only 17% oppose it. However, 63% do not believe that Israel will succeed in stopping rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip, while 17% think Israel will.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/62511/iaf-hits-islamic-university-targets.html

[bunnies]

1. Wow.

:wow: Thats a level of hate that Im unable to comprehend.

[oberliner]

2. What percent of Americans supported the US invasion of Afghanistan?

How many civilians were killed in that invasion?

[bunnies]

4. I'm speaking for myself.

Certainly not for blood-lusters in the entire US. And that Israel acts like the US - is not a good thing, imho.

[Bragi]

5. There's a big difference

I'm not one to defend American public opinion on the use of military force abroad.

However, at the time of the Afghanistan invasion, polls showed overwhelming support for that invasion but they also showed that those in support believed (honestly but incorrectly, it turned out) that it would result some useful outcome for the U.S.

In this case, it appears that many Israelis support the attack on Gaza but don'actually think it will be effective in producing a useful result.

I find that alarming and terribly sad, since it suggests they many are simply bloody minded.

[oberliner]

7. The poll doesn't say what you are claiming

I'd like to see the full poll, but from what you've posted, the poll does not say that Israelis don't think it will be effective in producing a useful result. Perhaps they believe it will result in lessening the rocket attacks, or making it more difficult for Hamas to attack in the future. That was not addressed in the excerpts from the poll that you've posted.

Also, what was the useful result that the Americans thought would come out of bombing Afghanistan? I don't know that I agree with your assertion about American public opinion at the time about the invasion. I think that a lot of Americans supported the attack because they wanted "revenge" for 9/11 not because they thought anything useful would come out of it.

[NOW tense]

3. The truth is

You could do the same poll here in the U.S. and it would be about the same. This reaction comes because know one can think outside of the kill box. War is easy when you think the other side is lower than human.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. When less than half the people supporting it think it's not going to work

that means they've given up all hope.

The power, believe it or not, actually resides on the Palestinian side of this. Because if they keep coming back with attacks after this offensive, what is Israel going to do that could possibly be a more hard-line strategy?

The element of surprise is what caused all the Hamas casualties. Once they regroup and reorganize, that element will be gone and then its back to square one again.

This is a hopeless strategy by Israel, and I'm glad at least most Israelis see it that way, even if they do like the overall idea of bombing Hamas. Sort of like punching one of those bop-it clowns that falls over then rights itself.

Unfortunately, innocent people have to die on both sides so the extremists in both camps can feel better about themselves.

[bemildred]

9. Yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=228696&mesg_id=231181

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. I disagree

that means they've given up all hope.

The vast majority support of Israelis support what is being done, but many are concerned it will not be the final answer. I share that concern.

The power, believe it or not, actually resides on the Palestinian side of this. Because if they keep coming back with attacks after this offensive, what is Israel going to do that could possibly be a more hard-line strategy?

They could reoccupy all or part of Gaza. They could maintain full time UAV coverage to spot any launches and retaliate with HE. They could forcibly move some Gazans to the West Bank and destroy their Gaza homes...I could go on. Suffice to say there is much more that could be done, and none of it very nice. Never underestimate the dark depths humans can stoop too.

The element of surprise is what caused all the Hamas casualties. Once they regroup and reorganize, that element will be gone and then its back to square one again.

That is a common misconception. Israel took out about ~250 Hamas members at all levels, including some senior ones. That won't cripple Hamas, but does provide a lot of upward mobility. The survivors are now going to be much more worried out themselves and organizational paranoia is going to run rampant through Hamas. Israel had a lot of information they should not have had. Putting personnel aside, there is the destruction of facilities. No offices, no records, no comms. Very disruptive. Finally there is the loss of material. The IAF went after every weapon manufacturing or storage location they could find, even targeting labs at the University. Militarily, there is not much left to work with. Regrouping can not solve the infrastructure and material issues. Note that the tunnels to Egypt are also gone now, so resupply is going to be very very slow.

Its clear that Israel wants to displace Hamas in favor of Fatah and the PA. How successful that will be is still TBD. Some here say it will never happen and like Hamas accuse the PA of being collaborators and colluding with Israel. I am not nearly as sure as they are. We will all have to see how that plays out over time.

[LeftishBrit]

8. Pretty typical of people in general

People often get locked into a situation of supporting a war or a specific military action, even when it is clearly ineffective. I suspect that one would also find that some Palestinians support the rocket attacks, while at the same time not thinking they will achieve much. Certainly one would find some Americans and British people supporting military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, even when not expecting them to work.

Several reasons for this. One is that people often get locked into repeating the same actions, because they can't think of anything else to do, and any action seems better than none. In a military context, doing nothing may seem to equal defeat. And in any context, getting a wrong answer sometimes seems better than getting no answer at all (e.g. children may persist with wildly incorrect strategies for solving mathematical problems, rather than give up, or try a new type of solution which causes anxiety just through its unfamiliarity). Also, people may feel a need to 'support the troops' and/or show solidarity with their fellow citizens, especially if they've been under any sort of attack, even if there is no obvious solution. And people may feel that if they don't respond to attacks, their enemies may see them as weak, and step up the attacks even further.

I agree with the 63% who think that the bombing of Gaza will not lead to an end to the rocket attacks; and with the 17% who oppose the war.

[lonestarnot]

10. how mny people were polled 3?

[Joe the Revelator]

12. Why is there shock that Isralie people would be supportive of attacking a governent

Who's goal is to wipe them and their families off the map?

[stranger81]

13. illuminating and highly disturbing. [n/t]