Report: Israeli envoy to UK accuses church service of being anti-Semitic

[subsuelo]

"It was appalling to see a church allow one of its most endearing seasonal traditions to be hijacked by hatred," Prosor told the Times, accusing the Church of having failed to condemn such a carol which provokes anti-Semitism and disregards years of efforts to bridge gaps between the two religions.

"Unfortunately, the criticism from within the Church of England, that should have echoed with bold moral clarity, has instead sounded like a silent night, but far from holy," he said.

The Carol being labeled 'anti-Semitic' (Haaretz removed the text of the actual Christmas carol deemed offensive after originally posting it with the article):

"Twelve assassinations, Eleven homes demolished, Ten wells obstructed, Nine sniper towers, Eight gunships firing, Seven checkpoints blocking, Six tanks a-rolling, Five settlement rings, Four falling bombs, Three trench guns, Two trampled doves, And an uprooted olive tree."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1045447.html">Haaretz - read more

[subsuelo]

1. So now it's anti-semitic to oppose crimes against the native Palestinians

Same as it ever was, I guess

[oberliner]

6. He actually specifically says that it is NOT anti-semitic to criticize Israeli policy

Bad headline on the part of Ha'aretz.

He never says the carol is antisemitic.

[nomorenomore08]

2. Calling that anti-Semitic, IMO, is equivalent to the far-right screaming "YOU HATE AMERICA!!!"

when one speaks against the Iraq War. Needless death and destruction, whether it be the Israeli army demolishing a neighborhood, or a Palestinian suicide bomber blowing up a school bus, should never be romanticized or rationalized.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. Anti-Israeli policies =/= anti-semitic.

It's an extremely unsavory tactic that those who favor abusive Zionist espoused by many in the Israeli government use to silence dissent. It needs to stop, and we need to stop allowing it to happen.

[nomorenomore08]

4. Exactly, just like how anti-Bush =/= anti-American.

In fact, I think the opposite, that be to anti-Bush is to be very much PRO-American, in the sense of sticking up for our real ideals and values. And likewise, I would say, from my admittedly less-than-expert perspective, that to oppose the Israeli government's current policies is to advocate what is ultimately best for the Jewish people.

[Crunchy Frog]

5. Sounds more like the critique of a state's policies

or of the general violence in the region, rather than a racist screed. I don't see any attacks on anything to do with either religion or racial identity there.

If we criticize American policy in similar terms, does that make us anti-American to the point of racism?

[oberliner]

7. He says that there is nothing wrong with criticizing Israeli policy

His actual quote is much more nuanced then what the headline suggests.

I'd love to get your thoughts on it.

"Such actions strengthen an anti-Israeli agenda, trivialize the political issues and nourish an anti-Semitic culture. This is not because it is wrong to criticize Israeli policy but because such campaigns single out Israel alone for particular opprobrium and censure it above regimes elsewhere in the world which are genocidal in intent and oppressive to the extreme."

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Yeah, I read what he said, and I disagree with it.

Frankly I think that Israel and its supporters need to grow a thicker skin when it comes to criticism of state policy. And anything you criticize any state, any time, for anything, you are at that time ignoring other states that may be doing similar things or worse. I personally find it somewhat disingenuous to deflect criticism with that argument. I also think this sort of thing cheapens the word "anti-semitism" which I think is dangerous in a world where REAL anti-semitism is still alive and well.

Anyway, I don't expect you to agree with me, but it's my opinion, no matter how pig-headedly wrong it may be.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Sounds like you liberal zionists here: don't criticize Israel until the rest of the world is

perfect.

Personally, I think it's a diversionary tactic.

[Vegasaurus]

17. Rest of the world is perfect?

I'd be satisfied with reduction of honor killing, beheadings, suicide bombings, hangings of gays, and other miserable human rights violations the world over.

That's not expecting perfection, it's just human decency.

It isn't diversionary at all to point out that every one of these countries is ten times more racist and bigoted than Israel, and has exponentially more hideous human rights practices.

Israel has its problems, but they pale in comparison to the countries that are given a pass.

[oberliner]

18. That is neither what he is saying, nor what I believe

He has the right to express his feelings about the Christmas carol.

If the folks had changed the lyrics of the Christmas carol to be about Palestinian terrorist attacks, I am certain that others would find that to be offensive.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. It may offend you, but do you think it's anti-semitic?

[oberliner]

20. He does not say it is anti-semitic

He identifies three results that he believes come from actions such as performing the Christmas carol with those altered lyrics: strengthen an anti-Israel agenda, trivialize the political issues, and nourish an anti-semitic culture.

He goes out of his way to add that he does not believe it is wrong to criticize Israeli policy.

I do believe that his points have merit.

A carol like this could nourish or feed anti-semitism in the same way that a carol about Palestinian terrorist attacks could nourish or feed Islamophobia.

I would think that either would be inappropriate.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

21. So, what is an appropriate way for those who oppose Israel's ongoing military occupation

to express themselves in a way that educates and shines the light?

What is appropriate?

[oberliner]

22. Well everyone is going to have their own idea as to what is appropriate

All I can tell you is that I find this particular act to be inappropriate.

[Vegasaurus]

8. But most anti-Zionists

couch their anti-semitism in the "Israel is so bad", "Israel has bad policy".

Underneath that rhetoric is a lot of ugly anti-semitism.

[azurnoir]

11. Nice statement

and about as true as most Islamaphobes couch their bigotry in support of Israel

[IndianaGreen]

12. What passes for Zionism today is not the old homeland for Jews

but a theocracy at the expense of the Palestinians and Jews deemed not observant enough.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Oh boy! I got yet another response from an "ignored" that I can't read.

:rofl:

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. LOL! I feel your pain!

[IndianaGreen]

23. Then you can't read it when you are called an asshole!

Join the millions of people that have chosen to be ignorant.

[Alamuti Lotus]

10. Not a bad piece..

lyrics seem a little stilted, but that can be overcome with a decent stage presentation (stock footage on oversized projector in the background?). Is it on YouTube yet?

[azurnoir]

13. but can ya' dance to it? n/t