Israeli Troops Kill Two Palestinians at Nonviolent Anti-Wall Demonstration

[subsuelo]

Israeli troops fatally shot two Palestinian youths aged ten and 17 this week in a village known for its non-violent resistance. 17-year-old Yousif Amira has been pronounced clinically dead after Israeli troops shot him on Wednesday. Amira was among several youths who were fired upon after attending the funeral of a ten-year old Palestinian boy killed by Israeli soldiers a day earlier. The boy, Ahmad Moussa, died instantly after being shot in the forehead.

The shootings took place in the village of Ni’lin, where residents have staged daily non-violent actions against Israel’s wall through the West Bank. The village was recently the site of another controversial shooting. On July 7th, an Israeli soldier was captured on film shooting a rubber bullet at a handcuffed Palestinian man.

Democracy Now - read more (audio too)

[lynnertic]

1. .

make it stop
:cry:

[number6]

2. same crap, different day

:(

[oberliner]

3. Ynet version of the story

Palestinian shot by Border Guard in Naalin dies

Ahmed Amira, an 18-year-old Palestinian who was critically injured in the West Bank village of Naalin about a week ago, died of his wounds at a Ramallah hospital Monday morning.

Amira, who was shot by Border Guard forces during clashes in the village, had been in a state of brain death in the past few days. He was wounded a day after an 11-year-old boy was killed by an Israeli Border Guard policeman in Naalin.

Immediately after Ahmed Yusef Mussa's funeral, violent clashes erupted between the residents, IDF soldiers and Border Guard officers, inside the village an area where a separation fence is being constructed.

Several Palestinians were injured by rubber-coated metal bullets. Amira, who was shot in the head, was critically injured and rushed to a Ramallah hospital.

After learning of his death, the Border Guard said in a statement that when a proper complaint is filed, it will be looked into. An initial inquiry has revealed that Palestinian, left-wing activists and foreign peace activists began rioting in the area, some of them hurling stones.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3577472,00.html

[ProgressiveMuslim]

4. What's the dif in versions?

[oberliner]

5. Nature of the protest, age of victim

The Democracy Now Report says that the protest was non-violent, while the Ynet story says that there was stone-throwing and that three Border Guards were lightly injured.

Also the two reports disagree about whether he was 17 or 18.

[Sezu]

6. Stones always conjures up an image of pesky schoolkids

having a pebble fight. In reality these "stones," are most often large rocks which are capable of much damage. In fact, in some parts of the world, "stoning," is used for capital punishment.

Doublespeak.

[shira]

7. only when Palestinians throw stones is it non-violent.

Didn't you get the memo?

[breakaleg]

11. On the contrary, only in Israel do they respond to teenagers throwing stones with bullet to the head

[oberliner]

15. The "only in Israel" BS is getting old

Police shoot protesters in India

Police have opened fire on protesters in southern India, killing at least eight people, officials said.

The relatives of those shot dead protested against police violence by laying the bodies of victims in front of a government office.

The rally on Saturday in Mudigonda, a small village in Andhra Pradesh state, was organised by two Indian communist parties as part of a campaign to press the government to give land to the poor.

K. Jana Reddy, the state's minister for home affairs, said that when officers approached protesters in Mudigonda, they started throwing stones at the police, who responded by opening fire.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2007/07/2008525123414901284.html

[subsuelo]

17. The practice of murdering protestors

is unjustifiable no matter who does it.

(not saying you posted that to justify it - I understand your intent was to refute the 'only in Israel' claim)

[oberliner]

19. Do you think that throwing rocks at police is justifiable in certain circumstances?

And what do you think is a legitimate police response to such an action?

[subsuelo]

20. I question the legitimacy of all violence

The more severe the act, the stronger the demand for justification (if any is possible).

To answer the question regarding a more legitimate response - a non-lethal one would obviously be more legitimate than mowing down the crowd with gunfire.

[Vegasaurus]

8. Once again

Those who wish to do damage to Israelis and Jews will use whatever they have.

Boulders, rockets, or even killing themselves, just to harm as many innocent people as possible.

Had they access to more damaging weapons, those "stone throwers" would be shooting Uzis instead.

[azurnoir]

12. You actually justify tha bullet in the head of a child

because he may have thrown a rock that you just "know" would have been an Uzi if only.........

[subsuelo]

9. Looks like the Israelis mowed them down anyway

Just to show 'em who's boss right.

Pretty brave of those soldiers to exchange stone throwing with gunfire. Especially against a scary group of kids with pebbles. I'm impressed with the courage it must have taken to spray those kids with gun fire.

[Sezu]

10. Well since this has BEFORE, I must ask what kind

of STUPID parent would put their kids in that kind of jeopardy? A freaking sadist?

[subsuelo]

13. ah, now it's the parents fault

Anyone but the killer

[Sezu]

14. Damn right. I keep MY kids safe by keeping them from danger.

Any parent who doesn't is a useless fool and those who do it deliberately are accomplices to the outcome. I can't believe you could care to exonorate parents who take kids to places bullets often get fired. Would YOU do that? DO you do that?

[subsuelo]

16. Is it that difficult to blame the killer?

The denial is so extreme

[Sezu]

18. Of course the killer shares the blame. Why is YOUR denial

intractable?

[Violet_Crumble]

22. The killer is to blame, not the parents...

And it's pretty easy to see that YOUR desire to duckshove blame onto Palestinian parents who have lost a child in tragic circumstances is an intractable denial of sheer commonsense. Tell me, do you react the same way when you hear of a child where you live being hit by a car when they're crossing the road? Do you embark on a spree of insisting that the parents are idiots and not like you who keeps yr children from danger? Or like much else that you post, is there a different set of standards at play when it comes to Palestinians?

Where do you live? Canada or the US I'm guessing. Why is it that folk who live in conditions far removed from those who they rush to judge harsly think they carry any weight when they start opining on being a *good parent*? Where you and I live, we don't have to live with the constant threat of violence erupting around us. We can send our kids off to school and be pretty certain they won't be shot by a soldier on the way. You and I don't live under an aggressive occupation. And only a complete twit would think that it's possible for a parent to stop their child from doing something that they're intent on doing....

I wrote this in another thread about this issue. It's worth repeating here:

I read a book written back before Barghouti was arrested, and he was totally against his teenage son throwing stones at demonstrations, but short of locking the kid up, couldn't stop him from doing it as the kid wasn't listening to him or anyone else who was telling him to stay away. So I don't think it's a case of parents sending their kids out to throw rocks the same way parents would send their kids out to play after dinner. I think it's more a case of children who are living in a very violent environment reacting to the violence they see around them...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=212911&mesg_id=212994

[Sezu]

26. DUH! BIG freaking difference between THAT and allowing

kids near GUNS!!!!!! As for stopping kids from doing what they are intent on doing, GOOD parents do it ALL THE TIME. But , in Palestine it's good for PR against Israel if a kid is encouraged to go into danger and get shot.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. It'd be pretty damn hard to avoid going near someone who's armed...

And there isn't any BIG freaking difference. The only difference is that you don't hold parents whos children get into dangerous situations responsible if they're not Palestinian. If they're Palestinian, then it's a whole different story. Any parent who claims that they can stop their child ALL THE TIME from doing something they've been told not to do is a fucking liar and living in fantasy land. Or they indulge in a bit of child abuse by keeping their kids under lock and key 24/7....

I notice that yr contradicting yrself now. Both pelsar and I have said the same thing about parents not being able to control their kids, yet you agree with pelsar and disagree with me. I'm not sure what makes you think you've got some great insight into the relationship between Palestinian parents and children. Didn't you bother reading what I posted for you about Barghouti and his son?

[Sezu]

34. ANY asshole parent anywhere that allows their kids to

be put in harms way whether they or Palestinian or not is a bad parent. Get over yourself

[Violet_Crumble]

36. But you haven't shown any evidence at all that they ALLOW their kids to be put in harms way...

Why did you disagree with me when I told you the same as what pelsar told you and you'd agreed with?

[azurnoir]

46. Get over yourself

you claim your a parent, if so then my guess is you are raising your kids in some some affluent suburban enclave somewhere your attitude shows it by its very arrogance, have you ever tried to raise kids in someplace dangerous? I have,(American inner city) the older 2 of my 4 it is not easy or even possible to keep them safe all of the time short of keeping them locked in the house and sometimes not even then, putting them in harms way? has it even occurred to you sometimes "harm" might come their way?

[pelsar]

24. the parents really cant control the kids....

the pressure on those kids to go out "and play" with the IDF is intense....and and i really do the mean the word "play". It comes from all directions, their friends, political groups, family honor etc....the parent really doesnt have a whole lot of influence.....too much depends upon the kids own personality

they used to have a game of climbing on a tank or personal carrier and taking some equipment...

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Kids and their attraction to danger...

I did some stupid and really dangerous things when I was a kid, and my daughter is the complete opposite, so personality does have a fair bit to do with it. I was thinking about how the attraction to danger translates in other places, and here one example would be how kids are attracted to jumping off the most dangerous rocks at beaches. On one of those tv shows where the cameras follow lifesavers around while they save mainly tourists floundering in rips, they showed a bunch of kids jumping from rocks where people had been badly injured or killed in the past (can't remember what the name of the rocks were, but it was something along the lines of 'Jump Off Here And Yr Fucking Dead Rock') and they were like a pack of lemmings all diving in one after the other. One of them gets hurt, and the lifesavers turn up and tell them off, so what do the kids do? Vanish for a while and return with a trampoline to make that jumping off the rocks experience just that bit more bouncey. And they were all geeing each other on by announcing that they knew how to time the jump so they caught the waves in just that right spot blah blah blah. As a kid I might have been impressed, but as an adult it's just stupid and dangerous...

[Sezu]

27. Agreed but obviously some sane Gazan parents can control

THEIR kids so for the most part it is sanctioned and in my book that is CHILD ABUSE.

[Violet_Crumble]

33. The shootings happened in the West Bank, not Gaza...

Also, have you got anything to back up yr claim that parents sanction their children getting into dangerous situations like this?

[Sezu]

35. OOOOOOOOOOHHHH Ya GOT ME!!!!!!!!

lol.

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Just pointing out it wasn't about Gaza...no need to get so excitable...

Can you try answering the question I asked you? Where's yr evidence that parents sanction and encourage their kids to go out and throw stones?

[Sezu]

43. You have GOT to be kidding. Is there some

kind of Palestinian readers' digest you work from?

[Violet_Crumble]

44. Huh? The OP was about shootings in the West Bank, not Gaza n/t

[breakaleg]

41. I'd say that any parent who thinks they know the whereabouts and actions of their 17 year old

child every minute of the day is a fool.

[Dick Dastardly]

21. Mowed down? Do you have any clue at what being mowed down really is.

It is an insult to victims who were really mowed down like those at Tianemen Square or in Burma.
If they were being mowed down,it would be regular ammo and there would be dozens and dozens killed with many more injured.

Besides your mowed down bs it was not a group of kids as you say
from the article
"Palestinian, left-wing activists and foreign peace activists began rioting in the area, some of them hurling stones.
"The forces responded with crowd dispersal means, including firing rubber bullets," the statement said."

Stones can kill despite your usual attempts to demonize Israel and give a pass to anyone elses actions

[Violet_Crumble]

23. I guess the definition is 'Something that never happens if an Israeli is doing it'

If someone opens fire on a group of people and succeeds in hitting them, then *mowing down* is an apt description, though those who hold the belief that terms such as *mowing down* only apply when used to describe the actions of those they deem to be *bad* would try to argue otherwise...

That statement you quoted was from the Border Guard. It's probably not wise to swallow everything they say without question. After all, they are prone to bullshitting...

And you do realise that rubber coated bullets can kill, right? When it comes to stones or rubber coated bullets, it's the rubber coated bullets that are more likely to kill....

note to self: Lest I also be accused of trying to demonise Israel and giving a pass to anyone else's actions, I must follow the lead of others in this forum and ensure that emotive terms are ONLY used about actions of the Palestinians and NEVER EVER use them when it comes to describing actions of the BESTEST and MOST DEMOCRATICEST country in the Middle East ;)

[Sezu]

28. These sort know the impact of words like

"mowed down," and actually depend on them to demonize Israel.

[subsuelo]

29. Sorry to be opposed to murdering kids for protesting Apartheid.

I came here with an assumption that we would all share in that opposition.

Guess not.

[Sezu]

30. Well, since there is NO freaking Apartheid in Israel you

came to the wrong place didn't you. I guess you believe that dogs are human too if you belive that Apartheid fallacy.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Since when has the West Bank been part of Israel???? n/t

[Sezu]

39. WTF are you frothing about now? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Pointing out the West Bank isn't part of Israel is *frothing*?

Sub was talking about the system in the West Bank. You respond by saying there's no apartheid in Israel. The West Bank isn't part of Israel. Pretty obvious, isn't it?

[Sezu]

42. You reallu can't read can you? Here are his words.

"Sorry to be opposed to murdering kids for protesting Apartheid."

I told him there IS NO Apartheid and you come in with some totally irrelevant remark about West Bank and Gaza. There is something off base about you tonight.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. I can read just fine. He didn't say there was apatheid in Israel...

Yet yr response was: 'Well, since there is NO freaking Apartheid in Israel' Sub was talking about the West Bank, which is why I wanted to know if you believe that the West Bank is part of Israel, coz it appears you seem to be having some trouble understanding that it's not...

[Sezu]

48. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL n/t

[Vegasaurus]

31. When you actually learn the proper use of Apartheid, try again. nt

[subsuelo]

47. Yes, it is Apartheid

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ... as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalised regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime." It lists such crimes as murder, enslavement, deprivation of physical liberty, forced relocation, sexual violence, and collective persecution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid">Wikipedia - read more

[Sezu]

49. Trouble is, neither Israelis OR Palestinians are seperate

racial groups, they are both semites so you lose the debate. Please stop using the stupid comparison now.

[azurnoir]

50. So then would the term

Antisemitism apply to Arabs as well? Seems we never se it used that way

[Sezu]

51. I know a lot of people try and push this meme especially

the Stormfront crowd and their ilk (not that you are one of course) but the fact remains that if you look at the historical origins of the term and the common usage it has gained, MOST people know that it means hate for Jews. Now I suppose there might be someone who could use it another way such as you suggest but they would have to be ignorant and cloistered or revisionist.

[azurnoir]

64. The only meme being pushed was own

and your answer along with it's thinly veiled charge that

Stormfront crowd and their ilk (not that you are one of course), Now I suppose there might be someone who could use it another way such as you suggest but they would have to be ignorant and cloistered or revisionist.

However I suspect that in reality your overblown response comes from being caught in a double bind o making the ridiculous claim that there can not be apartheid because both Jews and Arabs are Semites and therefore racially the same, as both peoples encompass those of many races, antisemitism only refers to one side or it is when I say it is and it's not when I say it's not. And of course I am aware of the common use, I was pointing out the basic dishonesty of your claim and the only revisionism is contained in your own attempt at such.

The facts are if one has any knowledge on the subject is that Semitic refers to the languages of both people both Hebrew and Arabic along with Amharic and a few are Semitic languages.

BTW Merriam Webster also defines as being cultural as well as racial. so kind of blows your theory.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apartheid

[subsuelo]

52. Oh ok, so the murders and dispossession of Palestinians

The forced removal from their land, the massacres and crimes against humanity, the discrimination and systematic oppression, the collective punishment and general mistreatment does *not* technically qualify as Apartheid, because technically speaking, they're not really separate racial groups.

Kind of like a technicality that lets a murderer off the hook right?

[Vegasaurus]

53. Hey, the Palestinians lost the wars

Time to get over it, move on and make peace, or they will never have a state.

That's the situation.

Quit whining about the past.

The collective punishment, oppression, and so forth will end when the terrorism ends, and when the ongoing desire to dessimate Israel ends.

Until then, there will be roadblocks and a wall, and oppression, because they save lives.

Call it what you wish, but it doesn't change the facts that without them, there would be lots more dead Israelis.

Sorry if you don't care about dead Israelis, but some of us do.

[subsuelo]

54. Oh your posts are so revealing

Suppose someone wrote about murders of Israelis to "get over it" and "quit whining". Suppose someone wrote that Israelis need to "get over the past". How do you suppose that might go over? But, somehow it's just fine to say "quit whining" about Palestinian suffering.

I understand Palestinians matter less to some people. I know they are viewed as less human than others. At least you provide some honesty about how you really feel instead of pretending otherwise, in the name of political correctness. I ask you, however, if maybe you can find the courage to have some honesty with yourself and face the fact that *neither* side deserves ANY oppression or suffering, no matter what excuses you think might justify it. A challenge, yes I know. I have hope however.

In the meantime, keep on dressing it all up nice and pretty, calling it "security", but in the end it still washes out the same -

Apartheid.

[Sezu]

55. I thought we settled this Apartheid bullshit using your

own definition example. Do you now reject your OWN example? Isn't that kind of.......creepy?

[breakaleg]

56. Perhaps you can re-read post 29 and show me where he says there is Apartheid in Israel?

[Vegasaurus]

57. He uses the Apartheid meme constantly nt

[subsuelo]

59. Sorry to be against oppression and murder of the dispossessed

I know how terribly upsetting that can be

[breakaleg]

65. Does he say "apartheid INSIDE Israel" anywhere? Since that's the accusation.

[Vegasaurus]

67. I do believe that the "apartheid" meme refers to all of Israel

just like they think that all of Israel is "occupied" territory.

I understand the semantics around here very well.

[subsuelo]

58. Yeah, that was settled. I showed how it's still Apartheid

despite your feeble attempt at devising a technicality.

Sorry, it just wasn't as clever as you thought.

[Sezu]

60. No, you didn't.....and no honest poster here can support

your disengenuous misdirection.

[subsuelo]

61. LOL "disingenuous" writes the person that says it's not Apartheid

because technically they're not separate races.

You're a real comic.

[Sezu]

68. Apartheid described whites against blacks and you own

example described RACES. Stop being silly. Dogs are not humans.

[Vegasaurus]

62. The "get over it" referred to the existance of Israel as a state in the Middle East

Yes, I think it is 60 years past the time that the Palestinians and other Arabs should stop whining about Jews in their midst.

I never EVER said Palestinians were "Less than" other people, or less human.

I do think terrorists are animals, and I don't apologize for that view.

If you think terrorists deserve to be "understood", I think you are the crazy one, not me.

I don't care if terrorists are oppress, rot in jail, suffer, etc.

Instead, they are celebrated as heroes.

Quit trying to assign views to me that I do not hold.

[subsuelo]

63. When you condemn terrorism on both sides, let me know

[Vegasaurus]

66. When you conflate suicide bombers with the IDF, I know you are nuts

Terrorists who blow themselves and innocent people up, and then are celebrated, are not the same as trained military.

Again, I await the news of celebration of death in Israel.

Remember, this occurs in Gaza after each and every suicide or bombing or terrorist act that results in death or destruction in Israel.

Your attempts to make those terrorist actions like anything Israel does is disgusting.

[subsuelo]

69. What Israel does is arguably worse

But I'm not here to try and make that argument. I'm here to call on the killings on both sides to end.

I'm sorry you have such a problem with that.

[Vegasaurus]

70. I support ending all the killing too

But you will have to send a memo to Mr. Haniyeh, Mr Ahmananutjob, Mr. Nasrallah, and the rest of the militants who would like to kill as many Jews as possible, before they reclaim their sainted lands.

[subsuelo]

71. I don't mind sending a memo to both sides

You complain about one side killing people, when in fact Israel has killed how many times more than Palestinians has?

So, when are you sending your memo to Israeli leaders, instead of making excuses?

[Vegasaurus]

72. I don't see Israeli leaders calling for their people to murder Palestinians

asking them to "martyr" themselves, in order to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.

The only reason that more Israelis haven't been killed (and I think you already know this) is that Israel has good intelligence, and the Palestinians don't have the firepower.

on edit:

Do you think Israel should do nothing? Allow their citizens to be murdered, terrorized, bombed and just sit back and pretend that the Palestinans really do want peace (although their actions, rhetoric, media, etc, clearly states otherwise)?

I am curious as to what you think Israel should do, aside from passively waiting to be terrorized, or worse, as they have done throughout history.

And I don't know why you don't believe the Palestinian leadership when they state their goals. They are clearly written, and stated over and over and over again.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eyl]

74. Please support your assertion

that Kahane and/or Goldstein are the subjects of widespread veneration in Israel or among Israeli leaders.

And your accusation against Vegasaurus is frankly obscene (unless, of course, you can back it up, which I doubt)

[Violet_Crumble]

77. Read my reply to Leftishbrit...

What I said applies to you too, eyl. I'm so fucking unimpressed that both of you race to defend a poster who has no problems making obscene accusations against other DUers, including myself on a regular basis...

just to clarify: Unlike you or Leftishbrit, I've expressed my dislike of the way the poster yr defending does exactly the same thing as now has been turned on her. Though I got a snicker at the irony of it, that doesn't mean I think anyone here should be accused of a liking for Amir. I have many criticisms of this poster based on what they've posted in this forum, but the ones I know are breaking the rules or getting too personal I keep to myself. I don't know why everyone, including Veggie, can't do the same...

[LeftishBrit]

75. How *dare* you accuse a DU-er of 'worshipping Yigal Amir'?

That's a truly Bushian argument: "If you're not with me you're with Osama and the terrorists!"

For the rest, only a small minority of Israelis idolize Kahane and Goldstein as heroes. You do realize that the Kahanist organizations are officially *banned* in Israel as terrorists?

I don't agree with everything Israel does - disagree with quite a lot of it in fact! - but the accusations that you're making are on a level with suggesting that all Americans idolize the Ku Klux Klan as heroes!

[Violet_Crumble]

76. What's the difference between that and what folk like Az and I have been accused of by one poster?

It's just that those accusations of supporting terrorism, hanging gays, stoning women etc aren't a one-off, but not once have I seen you react in that 'how *dare* you' way to any of those posts....

on edit: I just noticed who the accusation was aimed at in this thread and have to snicker at the irony of the poster being accused now is the same one who throws all sorts of nasty accusations at other DUers...

[LeftishBrit]

78. Who/what is Az?

And I've never seen anyone accuse you of wanting to 'hang gays' etc. I *have* occasionally seen people suggest that Muslims/Arabs in general do so, and I *have* objected to that. But not against you personally.

FTR, Rabin is one of my greatest heroes, and I do react more strongly to accusations of 'worshipping Amir' than to most other nasty accusations! I make no apology for that.

[Violet_Crumble]

80. Azinoir (probably spelt their name wrong)

They're the poster this recent comment was aimed at. The deleted one at the end of the sub-thread was even more direct and was sitting there for a fair while before it got deleted...

'Since when do you advocate equality for all?

You seem to think that regressive regimes that stone women, hang gays, have no freedom of the press, advocate murder of another country;s citizens DESERVE TO BE RECOGNIZED.

I don't see much equality in Gaza under Hamas, or in Lebanon, with Hezbollah.

I don't see much equality in Iran or Saudi Arabia either, but you are quick to protect those regressive regimes.'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=221723&mesg_id=222294

[LeftishBrit]

82. OK. Firstly, I disagree with most of the comments that you quote - BUT

they are a totally different matter from what the last poster said.

What Vegasaurus was saying here is that the pro-Palestinian posters are prepared to *recognize* and *protect* such regimes. She clarified this as meaning that they support policies of isolationism/ American non-intervention in such regimes, and that this protects the human rights abuses.

Now that is different from saying that people WORSHIP or even actively support these regimes. It's more akin to the fairly frequent suggestions here that people who don't support BDS against Israel are thereby accepting the status quo. As someone who supports neither BDS nor the status quo, I certainly disagree with the latter, but I don't react to them with a 'How dare you!'

If someone says on the board that you, or any other poster, worships Ahmadinejad or Islamic Jihad, I will certainly object in the strongest terms! But I haven't ever seen that happen.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. It's not a totally different matter though...

She clarified it as saying that Az supported such practices, which is why there's a deleted post sitting in that subthread. She clarified it in the post I linked to by titling it 'since when do you advocate equality for all?' and then in the next sentence went on about stoning women etc. And then there's the deleted posts where that same poster has accused me of being a terrorist supporter amongst other things. It's not the first time it's been aimed at Az, though. As I kind of suspect this discussion would possibly be seen as calling another poster out, I'll PM you some links I found and leave it at that...

[Vegasaurus]

84. Thank you for being one of the few sane posters here, LB

I have never said that anyone here WORSHIPS repressive regimes.

Just like I have asked Azuinoir to support his claim that I have GLEE about settlement expansion. He has been unable to back up that claim, because I have expressed DISMAY at settlement expansion, not glee.

I do think some progressives go out of their way to protect the interests of repressive regimes, and do not speak up nearly enough about their human rights abuses, but are quick to accuse Israel of human rights abuse, when what Israel does is a fraction as bad.

I don't have any problem whatsoever in pointing out the ludicrous hypocrisies in some posters' points of views.

Either one cares about human rights, or one doesn't.

But to turn a blind eye on stoning and hanging, simply because these acts are accepted cultural practices is hypocritical.

I don't think it is against the rules to point that out.

[Violet_Crumble]

81. Martymar64 meet Vegasaurus. Both of you have so much in common...

Whether it's talking bs about Palestinians or Israelis idolising or celebrating extremism or whether it's accusing folk in the forum of worshipping or supporting the likes of Amir or the hanging of gays etc, there's so much similarity....

[LeftishBrit]

79. I agree with sending memos to both sides, and there are ways of doing so...

www.allmep.org

www.avaaz.org

www.onevoicemovement.org