MK Elon: Int'l body must resettle Palestinians

[bemildred]

In a novel Israeli approach to one of the prickliest issues facing Israeli and Palestinian negotiators, MK Benny Elon (NU-NRP) is proposing the establishment of an international body in lieu of UNRWA to deal with the resettlement of Palestinian refugees over the next decade.

The proposal, part of the hawkish parliamentarian's alternate peace plan known as "The Israeli Initiative," is meant to be "a first step" towards resolving one of the most difficult final status issues.

"Successive governments have chosen to stick their head in the sand when faced with the looming fear of the refugee issue," Elon writes in a newly-expanded chapter of his three-pronged plan.

"Needless to say, this policy has been ineffective. The Palestinian refugee problem has grown in size and, in effect, it has given birth to terror and Palestinian nationalism."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1202246326980&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[regnaD kciN]

1. So, if I understand this correctly...

...his proposal is that an international group should move the Palestinians out of the Occupied Territories and scatter them permanently around the world, far from "Greater Israel?" In other words, create a Palestinian diaspora?

Just lovely... :puke:

[Malikshah]

4. Next Year in Jerusalem Part II

Electric Boogaloo.

[kayecy]

2. Intn'l body must .....

Intn'l body must ......

Who does this guy think he is. Israel has ignored the wishes of the International community for 50 years and now he says MUST!

[Tom Joad]

5. That's not true. It's 60 years. Sixty. count 'em

[LeftishBrit]

12. So you think that Israel's very existence is against the wishes of the international community???

[Tom Joad]

14. I do think that ethnic cleansing of over 700,000 Palestinians violated

human rights laws and that they have a right to return.
I know most don't agree with international law should be applied here.

[LeftishBrit]

15. Do you also think...

that Europaean-Americans should leave the USA and return it to the Native Americans; and that their continued presence is against international law?

[Tom Joad]

16. where did i say should be required to leave anywhere?

[LeftishBrit]

20. Under present circumstances...

if Israel was abolished as a Jewish homeland, the Jews *would* have to leave - or worse.

Maybe one day, if real peace were made between the people involved, this might not be the case. Maybe one day there will be no national boundaries at all anywhere, and all peoples will be at peace. That would be great. But it's not likely to happen soon. And I don't see why you're demanding it of Israel, when you're not demanding it of anywhere else.

[Tom Joad]

33. You don't know me. I don't know you.

and that's the way i would like to keep it.
don't put words in my mouth.

[Tom Joad]

34. I think the problem is not that it is a Jewish homeland, but that it

is a Jewish STATE. The problem is the STATE part, not the Jewish part.

A nation can be a homeland to multiple people.

Surprise!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vegasaurus]

18. It's no longer their "home"

anymore than the displaced people across the globe can return to their former "homes".

Time to move on here, Tom.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

19. I think the actual refugees should be allowed to return as a matter of fact

I just don't think it can be made hereditary.

The Palestinians need their own state.

Should I be allowed to automatically get a home in Lithuania or Poland because my ancestors had to leave these countries?

Why do you hate Native Americans? Or are you indeed prepared to give up your home to them? (I'm not really demanding it of you; but it's what your logic would imply.)

[pelsar]

21. come on tom...lets be consistent...

US Native American Indians...shouldnt their ancestors be allowed to return home?....

On Dec 29, 1890...thats merely 118 years ago.....were being prepared to be ethnically cleansed from S. Dakota to Nebraska....(wounded Knee). The history of much of N. Americas ethnic cleansing is clear...so why shouldnt they be allowed to return to their homes?

why do you hate native americans?

[Vegasaurus]

22. All others refugees are unimportant, according to Tom nt

[Tom Joad]

25. WHERE DID I SAY THAT????

sTOP WITH THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS.

[Vegasaurus]

29. Your outrage is misplaced

Do you believe that all displaced peoples should be allowed to return to their former homes, and if so, where should those current inhabitants go? I take it you live somewhere in which an indigenous people once lived. If so, are you willing to give up your home for people who lived there generations ago? And again, if so, how many generations back should refugees be, to claim ownership? One, two, three, ten generations? Is there a statute of limitations?

Many of us have displaced relatives who lost their homes, and never were permitted to reclaim them. Do you care about those? I never hear any outrage about any other refugees, and the world is filled with millions of people who lost their homes, were kicked off their lands, etc.

[Tom Joad]

26. Did you know a native american in the US can buy a house or rent property anywhere

in the country, with absolutely no restrictions?

[Tom Joad]

24. You think Native Americans are not allowed in Nebraska?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

28. you don't have to tell me what the US did to Native Americans, you

just have to tell me how it justifies current Israeli actions regarding Palestinians.

I vomit when i read what US presidents did to Native Americans. Their images should be thrown out and off our money. I think what they did was a disgrace to humanity.

I honor the Native Americans who resisted.

[azurnoir]

30. My FAVORITE excuse

oh you did to the Indians give them their land back LOL think that the Lakota are taking matters into their own hands

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/21/5946/

All I can say on that is that I wish Russell well, and may Cheney's ranch be included in the area

So was your an admission that for at least the Israeli RW or some of that tilt the 2 state solution already exists that being Israel from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River and Jordan?

[Tom Joad]

31. Why do people hold up US crimes against native americans

as "model behavior"? it baffles me.

[pelsar]

35. your confused..its not model behaviour

it just pointing out the hypocrisy....The native american indians cannot return home to the their lands....they're owned by other people, probably including yourself....that is the point.

perhaps when you have fixed that aspect it might give you the right to talk about the Palestinians returning to their lands they previously lived upon.

[Tom Joad]

38. But the policy is not to just deny Palestinians to live in a house

that they previously owned, now inhabited by someone else. It means not setting foot in what is now Israel. even if that land is abandoned. even to buy a home for sale in Jaffa. A Palestinian currently exiled in Lebanon would be lucky to even be granted the permission to visit, much less be allowed to live anywhere in his former homeland.

At the very least, the US allows native Americans the right to live here.

Your analogy is in many ways off-base, except that the origin of the US, and the origin of Israel, is based on enormous crimes against the original inhabitants.

[pelsar]

41. america...

took the natives from their homes and placed them in areas far away... different states.....they were not allowed to "live in their geographic home areas. But that is all in the past. Their status is that in general they have accepted their loss and have moved on..which is why you can live in peace on stolen lands....and not have to do anything about it.

the Palestinians are not there yet...and threaten israel, the country, its culture and existence....when that threat no longer exists, there will be changes....

[shaayecanaan]

46. filthy lies

The US was settled by peaceful, God-fearing pilgrims who only wanted to bring the natives salvation though Jesus Christ, as well as flowers and chocolate. But the natives spurned the approaches of the pilgrims and responded to their entreaties with terroristic bows and arrows. This forced the peaceful pilgrims to fight a defensive war out of necessity, in which the natives were inadvertently denuded of most of the land they previously occupied.

Even today, the peaceful pilgrims must regretfully force the natives to live in squalid reservations rather than allow them to return to their land, on account of the existential threat to the state posed by the natives' terrorist bows and arrows. A few people disagree with this but they are all terror apologists or godless communist stooges.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. Have Native Americans accepted their loss?

Their status is that in general they have accepted their loss and have moved on..which is why you can live in peace on stolen lands....and not have to do anything about it.

Not being an American I don't know as much about the situation of Native Americans as I should, but don't they have land rights movements or calls for official acknowledgement of the wrong done to them? It's just that if indigenous Australians had accepted their loss (specifically the forced removal of children from their parents)and moved on and not done anything about it, we wouldn't have had history made here this week when the Australian government issued a formal apology to indigenous Australians. Same goes for land rights. If they'd just accepted that their land had been stolen from them and not done anything about it, native title wouldn't exist today. I live in an area that has a pending native title claim on it, and my opinion is the claim should be granted to the traditional owners. There's no turfing of people out of their homes coz of the following:

'Native title exists alongside and is subject to the rights of other people in the same area, e.g. people with leases, licences or a right of public access will continue to have those rights and native title must give way to people exercising those rights (this is sometimes called ‘coexistence’).'

http://www.nntt.gov.au/publications/1021616069_19692.html



You are right in saying that real reconciliation can only happen when Israel doesn't feel threatened, and I do see very small steps being made regardless of that (eg putting up signs on locations of destroyed Palestinian villages), but one thing I think should be pointed out to anyone who are into the 'so sad, too bad' line of thinking where there's no need for acknowledgment of the past when it comes to Palestinians who lost everything, or who think for example that a Palestinian who lost their home in what is now Israel should be allowed to move back in and the existing owners be turfed out, is that both of those stances just continue on a path away from reconciliation. Righting wrongs of the past can't be done where more wrongs are created. The first school of thought I mentioned doesn't even think there are any wrongs that need to be acknowledged, but the second does but doesn't realise in going to extremes and supporting people being put out of their homes so they can be returned to their original owners, all they're doing is supporting something that's no better than what was done to the original owner. While I'm opposed to homeowners in Israel being moved out, I've got no such reservations when it comes to Palestinian property taken over and used to this day by the Israeli govt. I read of one case where an Arab-Israeli guy lives within eyesight of his family's land that was taken over by the Israeli govt and is now used as a hospital, even though he holds title deeds to it...

[azurnoir]

37. I don't know if it is

"model behavior" so much as a chance to point out the "hypocritical, baseless, immoral attitude of the left" and further proof that we just hate Israel or Jews or whatever. The kicker is that by that same standard the support of "Jews" returning to their homeland is just as baseless, the Europeans that took America had absolutely no historical claim to the land here, and took the land anyway, to say Israel has a "right" to do the same is a loaded and counter productive argument to say the least.

[pelsar]

36. i admit lots of stuff that goes on...

nor do i have a problem with seeing things for what they are.....the native american indians are simply an interesting parallel to the IP conflict for those who chant the mantra of the Palestenians being able to return to the lands they once lived on...


let the native americans return home......regardless who has declared ownership over their lands in the last century.

[Tom Joad]

39. where do you think they are? Canada? Sweden?

[pelsar]

40. america is not their home...

the various tribes were taken from their homes....their homes were not "america, that is a european settler invention. Their homes are the plains of the midwest, the western part of the continent etc...the areas where they lived and hunted and traveled through......

[breakaleg]

3. Serious case of pass the puck. nt

[Tom Joad]

6. This guy is a regular Ben-Gurion. the man who created the refugee

crisis to begin with. although i think that may be unfair to Elon, in a way.

[subsuelo]

7. of course, resettling Israelis is totally unthinkable

I'm not saying it is appropriate, either. Just pointing out the inherent racism in the proposal

[LeftishBrit]

self-deleted (dupe).

[LeftishBrit]

13. It's not unthinkable by some - e.g. Ahmadejinad and a number of others.

I agree that proposing the forcible 'resettling' of any group is totally racist and unacceptable.

This idiot is a member of one of the fringe-right religious parties. He is a nutter, but he probably has little real power even in Israel, and certainly won't be taken seriously by the 'international community'.

[Tom Joad]

32. Moving and displacing Palestinians is Israeli policy, and has been

Israeli policy for 60 years.
They were successful in getting over 700,000 to move in '48, right?
Tens of thousands of Palestinian homes have been demolished in the last few years, right?
A Wall went up and is destroying dozens of Palestinian communities, right?
Settlements are increasing in size, and will be permanently off-limits to Palestinians, right?
Bush and congress have approved the taking of some West Bank land, and said that it should remain part of Israel, not to Palestinians.
Israel is putting the squeeze on Palestinians who remain in the Jordan Valley, and that too will remain under Israeli control.

Yes, they are nutters, but they seem capable of making things happen.

[Violet_Crumble]

42. He's an Israeli MK whose ideas get support from some in the US Congress...

He's not some harmless nutter like that letter writer in that other thread recently. In the past he's participated in terrorising Palestinians by attacking their homes alongside other settlers, and has been a Minister in the Israeli govt. I can't see any difference between the views of him and Hamas, imo...

[LeftishBrit]

43. One of the drawbacks of a strictly proportional-representation system...

is that real nutters can get into government, just because the government needs the support of small parties.

I agree his views and wishes are extremist, and he has more power than some stupid overseas letter-writers. Unfortunately.

I would make the comparison more with Ahmadinejad than Hamas - both Ahmadinejad and this nut think that their enemy-group (Jews/Palestinians) should be moved somewhere else.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. Yeah, it's definately a drawback when it comes to the Israeli political system...

I don't like the two-party system the US has, but I also don't like the myriad of small parties that Israel has either...

I think they should have sat Benny Elon down and given him a basic lesson on what democracy is coz he doesn't seem to get it. Not that I'd expect he'd get it no matter how many times it was explained to him....

[pelsar]

45. the multi party system officially sucks!

it may have been nice in theory..letting those with less power.i.e. those who cant get into the big parties, have a say in the country. The reality is quite the opposite. It gives those in the minority power way beyond their numbers. Combine that with a non direct voting system (we vote for the party, not the individual) and you get a govt that not only is not directly responsive to the voters but that is busy with party politics throughout its period in power.

the settlers and their supporters are a minority but coalition politics/indirect voting gives them influence way beyond their numbers. In the world of limited options the two party, direct vote system is by far the better one.

Benny Elon and friends know very well what democracy is...they prefer what is called "jewish democracy".....i'll let you figure out what that means.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. It says a lot that this extremist's ideas gain favour with the US Congress...

'The other two central facets of Elon's plan, which has attracted US congressional interest, are maintaining Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank and recognizing Jordan as the Palestinians' official representative instead of the Palestinian Authority.'

Now, how would Israel remain a democracy if it annexed the West Bank with its population, which would change things so Israel no longer had a Jewish majority? I guess that's where Benny's expulsion plans come into it...

[bemildred]

9. I do kind of wonder why they think it's in the US national interest to support the

settlers colonists, but then I realize it has nothing to do with that. It's just another weasel congressperson looking for money and support.

[azurnoir]

10. Exactly, I do not think it will take much traction

hopefully but until the American campaign contribution system is changed, which IMHO it needs to be reasons that go beyond the ME or I/P conflicts expect this kind of BS cropping up. Obama did it last week, which was for me very disappointing, to be willing to sweep any group "under the rug" to garner some votes speaks of "principles" that are a bit too flexible.

As to Israel I have long felt that a certain RW segment of the Israeli population felt that the 2 state solution already existed that being Israel and Jordan. Thankfully I do not think they are a majority.

[Tom Joad]

11. obama did more than indicate a willingness to sweep any group

under the rug, but a willingness to endorse enforced malnutrtion for Palestinian children.
He was once a sane man, too. now, he is simply a politician