One Palestine, Kaput

[Phx_Dem]

Gaza’s dramatic, bloody descent into chaos last week pushed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict back to the center of the world’s consciousness with a sudden force that was matched only by its profound unfamiliarity. For the first time in recent memory, Palestinians were suffering hellish violence and privation in which Israeli hands had no part. Most of the world, baffled by the novelty, watched the mayhem for days in stunned silence.

There were marginal voices here and there, on the fringes of the left and right, that blamed Israel for having left Gaza to its own devices, as though nothing else but chaos could be expected from Arabs left on their own. Most everyone else — American and European, Christian, Muslim and Jewish — understood that they were watching an earthquake, a tectonic shift that must inevitably change the rules of the game.

The change, it was generally assumed, would be for the worse. Some said Israel had failed to come to terms with Mahmoud Abbas and Fatah, and so left the field to Hamas. Others said Israel had foolishly handed the keys to terrorists, and now the masks were off. Either way, everyone agreed, Israel now had a virtual Iran perched on its doorstep.

And then, over the weekend, the mood changed. Abbas, showing an unaccustomed steel, dissolved his Fatah-Hamas unity government, outlawed Hamas militias, raised his flag defiantly in the West Bank and called for, of all things, an urgent renewal of peace talks with Israel.

More at:
http://www.forward.com/articles/10988/

[AviBaruch]

1. Releasing Barghouti, as the author suggested, would be

a huge step and possibly a huge boost to Abbas. However, it's also extremely risky if he doesn't renounce his violent past.

[bemildred]

2. It would be a huge step.

Probably the best shot to rehabilitate Fatah.

It would most likely be the end of Abbas politically, but he is likely toast politically anyhow.

I doubt that Barghouti would be willing to renounce a thing, just to get out. More correctly, not having done it already, there is no reason to think he will do it now, he is in the catbird seat and can just keep waiting if he doesn't like the deal.

You are right, it would be risky, but doing nothing won't get you far either.

[pelsar]

3. BS.....

nobody has any idea what releasing Barghouti would do to the forces at play. Does anybody have any idea of the influence of the Tanzine (barghoutis group) vis a vis fatah, al aska brigades...how about with the prisoners? Did he make friends or enemies?

Hes nothing more than a wild card....what his agenda is how he plans on getting there is anybodies guess.

[Phx_Dem]

4. you think there is any chance he will be released?

I think the likelihood is pretty low especially because of all the unknowns as you say. I understand he is not very fond of Dahlan, and is calling for his removal.

[pelsar]

8. no idea...

i would guess that if hes release it would be because abbas asked the israelis to and somehow convinced the "powers that be" that it would be good for them...but if abbas doesnt want him "running around" then i doubt he will be released.

[bemildred]

5. Actually, he makes statements and things like that.

Like other politicians. It's true they are all lying weasels, but I see no reason to consider him different from any of the others. And "risky" does mean "unpredictable", eh? But if you want to leave him in jail, that's fine with me. I'm just saying he's probably your best shot if you want to resurrect Fatah.

[rayofreason]

11. I don't want to resurrect Fatah...

...I want new voice - one that says "Enough of trying to drive the Jews into the sea - Let's try real peace". If there is even a small chance the releasing Barghouti would midwife that, then take the chance. To be brutally honest, if he turns out to be a lying terrorist, Israel can arrest or kill him later.

[Atmosphere]

10. Barghouti has already said that he denounces attacks against civilians

and claims to never have been apart of them either. If he really is as murderous of a terrorist as some people say he is, why has the Israeli government been thinking about releasing him for a while now ?

[bemildred]

6. Mahmoud Abbas is a fiction

By Israel Harel

George W. Bush and Ehud Olmert looked pathetic giving their "full backing" to the broken-down crutch that is Mahmoud Abbas. Contrary to the talk in Washington, nothing has changed to open a new opportunity for negotiations over a final settlement. It is impossible to hold talks with Abbas, just like it was impossible to hold talks in the past on any kind of arrangement, and certainly not on a permanent settlement. The Hamas victory in the Gaza Strip and the establishment of a "moderate" government in Ramallah do not divide the territory into Hamastan in the Gaza Strip and Fatahstan in Judea and Samaria. This is only another illusion in the basket of Israeli illusions - a fallacy that's part of the same belief that there is an Arab leader (it used to be Yasser Arafat, and now it is Mahmoud Abbas) who wants to sign an agreement with us, and one that entails relinquishing the right of return and recognizing Israel's right to exist as a Jewish and Zionist state.

It is not only the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria and their leadership who do not recognize the right of Israel to exist as a state with a Jewish and Zionist character, but as a number of recently published documents have revealed, it is a view shared by entities representing the Arab citizens of Israel too.

The Palestinian government sworn in earlier this week is a fiction, even if the United States and Israel support it. In Ramallah, where this fictitious government sits, Hamas won a decisive victory in the last elections: four seats in parliament for Hamas, and only one for Fatah. In Nablus, four seats went to Hamas and two to Fatah. In Hebron: nine to Hamas and none for Fatah. In Jerusalem: four to Hamas and two for Fatah. In the cities of Judea and Samaria Hamas won 30 parliamentary seats. Fatah got only 12.

Given the circumstances, the new government does not represent the Palestinians - only Israeli illusions, and possibly also those of the Americans and the Europeans. The Israel Defense Forces cannot prevent the erosion of Fatah's military power, and it is doubtful whether it is even worth investing efforts in such futility. The experience of recent years proves that our "allies," Mohammad Dahlan among them, are only boisterous characters - corrupt and lacking any real power. They are certainly no ally of Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873570.html

[rayofreason]

12. Unfortunately...

...There is much truth in this article in Haaretz.

Looking back through history we can ask "Why do peoples decide to stop waging war?" The answers seem to be either the pain and exhaustion is too great to bear for the promise of gain that war would bring, or the threat of complete annihilation, such as brought about Japanese surrender in WW2.

Despite the pain and devastation brought upon the Palestinians by all these years of futile war to destroy Israel, I fear that they have not yet reached the point of realizing that they cannot achieve their aim. Instead they embrace the cult of the suicide bomber. The Shaheed becomes the icon whose path all the righteous should follow. How many will follow this dead end? I fear for the Palestinians that their tribulations have yet a long and sorrowful path, and in the end Israel will endure. What a waste.

When will come the day that a Palestinian leader arises with the will to say something like this? -

"Both...pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other.....The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." ....He now wills ... this mighty scourge of war .... Yet, if God wills that it continue ..... so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether." With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on .... to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

And when will it be that such a leader can say this in Arabic and survive?

[bemildred]

7. Free Barghouti

One of the leaders of the Palestinian people has been incarcerated for approximately five years now in Hadarim Prison, in central Israel. The time has come to release him. For years, Marwan Barghouti has tried to persuade Israelis to end the occupation through negotiation. He has gone from one Israeli party headquarters to the next, meeting with politicians across the political spectrum. He tried to persuade them in order to preempt the next confrontation.

Barghouti failed, the second intifada broke out, and he himself turned to the path of violent struggle. After going underground for months, during which he still tried to address the Israeli public through its own media, Barghouti was arrested in April 2002 and prosecuted. He was sentenced for five life terms in prison, plus 40 years.

It is doubtful whether arresting and prosecuting him was diplomatically wise, but there is no doubting the political wisdom of releasing him.

During his years in prison, Barghouti has acted to restrain the armed struggle and bolster his people's moderate leadership, using envoys to achieve this goal. Barghouti never left his native West Bank, never took to the habits of power characteristic of the Palestine Liberation Organization leadership in Tunisia. He became a popular leader - especially in the West Bank, and to a lesser degree in the Gaza Strip.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873575.html

[Tom Joad]

9. Statement from Marwan Barghouti 18th June 2007

From the confines of my prison cell, I address our great people with the following:

1. I condemn the military coup against the legitimate Palestinian Authority and its institutions in the Gaza Strip.

2. The events in Gaza represent a dangerous threat to the unity of our homeland and to the Palestinian cause. They sabotage the principle of national partnership and are a deviation from the path of resistance.

3. The coup d’état undermines the values of democracy accumulated to this day. It is a threat to the option of democracy, an option which brought Hamas to power.

4. I fully support the decision to form a new Palestinian government, with Dr Salam Fayyad as its Prime Minister. I hope that it will enforce the law and ensure that the prevailing chaos is brought to an end. Further, I hope that it will work hard to maintain the unity of the Palestinian homeland, its people and their cause.

5. I condemn without reservation the unlawful acts committed in the West Bank against individuals, properties, institutions and leaders of the Hamas. The painful scenes and images we have witnessed in Gaza must not be let to happen in the West Bank.

6. I call upon President Mahmoud Abbas, supreme leader of the Fatah, to form a new leadership for the movement in the Gaza Strip, consisting of those leaders who remained there.


7. The leaders of the security forces should be made to resign, with a new leadership appointed. This leadership will reform the Palestinian security establishment and all its branches in a professional manner, thus enabling it to defend our homeland, its citizens, our national project and the Palestinian authority institutions. It will be capable of confronting the occupier’s aggressions and will maintain security and order, by enforcing the law and ending the chaos, strife, displays of weaponry and parading of armed forces.

8. I call for the formation of an emergency committee composed of well known, respected and trusted leaders of the Fatah, whose mandate will be to revive the movement, rebuild its institutions and hold to account those who have displayed ineptitude and corruption when performing their duty. They will also defend our people and their national goal of freedom, independence and return to their homeland. This committee should hold the 6th conference of the Fatah movement without delay.

9. I call upon Mr Ismail Hanya to accept the legal and constitutional decision of President Abbas to enforce his and the government’s resignation in order to safeguard our constitution, contained in the basic laws. He should cooperate with the new government in order to maintain what Palestinian legitimacy remains and to preserve the unity of our homeland, its people and their cause.

Marwan Barghouti, 18th June 2007

[pelsar]

13. so does this mean...

that you consider gaza "occupied" by hamas?...... (he did call it a "coup d’état )