Israel wants full EU membership

[Tinoire]

BRUSSELS: Tel Aviv has sent several signals to the European Union conveying that Israel wants full EU membership.

Israeli government has officially told the EU that Israel is expediting its endeavours to resolve all its outstanding disputes with its neighbouring states which is a pre-requisite under the EU rules for acceptance of any country's candidature, a reliable source in Brussels told the News.

The European Union is faced with a new dilemma of handling the fresh diplomatic initiative by Israel seeking a full EU membership with the support of the current EU presidency, while other major EU member states remain divided on the issue.

The European Union was first startled when Israeli Foreign Minister Silver Shalom recently told an EU delegation in Washington that his government was weighing an application to join the EU. The foreign minister was quoted as saying: "possibility, in principle, exists for Israel to join the EU since Israel and Europe share similar economies and democratic values."

<snip>

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/jul2003-daily/07-07-2003/main/main17.htm

[Khephra]

1. For a minute there

I thought the title was "Israel wants full DU membership".

[Nambe]

2. I want my old Jaguar back.

Click to enter UN site.

[Allah Akbar]

3. Sounds good!

Then we could stop sending them $$Billions$$ every year.

[Jonathan]

4. Forget about it

Never gonna happen; never should happen.

[BonjourUSA]

33. Why if Israel changes its constitution ?

the Israeli constitution is founded on religious statements. It should change.

But, there is real question : where is the end of European territory ? This question has been for Turkey admittance, why it shouldn't be for Israel?

[SoCalDem]

5. Is Israel part of the NEW Europe??

I do not , in any way, consider Israel as part of Europe...This is a dumb move..

[IndianaGreen]

6. Turkey applied for membership

but they have yet to meet the EU human rights requirements, but the Turks are working hard at it. I think there is some opposition to admitting Turkey due to Islamophobia among some Europeans.

As to Israel's membership, this is nothing but a business deal that will benefit everyone involved.

[DFLforever]

9. But at least Turkey has some territory on the continent of Europe....

and is a member of Nato...although I do think their human rights environment will keep them out of the EU for the forseeable future. From what I've followed of the debate last year, there seemed to be little to no support in Europe for Turkey's admittance.

[The Stranger]

42. Turkey has problems with human rights requirements?

Was this mentioned in irony? Certainly human rights will be a problem in both applications.

[aquart]

16. Very dumb move.

All of Cyprus goes to Israel for medical care, can you imagine the entire EU crowding those hospitals?

[Paschall]

21. Huh?

There are hospitals on the Continent, you know. In fact, to relieve Britain's overtaxed public health system, France is taking on some British patients.

[Kellanved]

27. exactly

lots of British patients awaiting surgery in Germany as well.

[canuck]

7. uh, they keep mentioning on the news and stuff that

Israel is in the Middle East.

Like, whats to stop america joining?

wonder how the EU feels about having a member who recieves billions a year in arms from the USA? How about undeclared nuclear weapons?

and a part of EU membership is that some of your laws are subordinated to EU laws. How much confidence can the EU have in Israel's ability to do this when they have had no regard for institutions like the UN.

Like if they ignore the UN, they are going to suddenly play nice with the EU?

[DavidDvorkin]

8. Millions of EU Moslems

would then have the right to move to Israel and work there.

That would be interesting.




http://www.dvorkin.com

[fshrink]

10. Their job is to co-found the MEU.

Which would include neighboring states of the area. This would have the potential of becoming a very respectable power.

[legin]

11. There is a tiny precedent for this

in Soccer (the football the brits play) it appears that israel counts as a European country, i don't know about other sports.

From just below the bannar at top:
uefa.com > Fifa World Cup: Europe > Teams > Israel

It seems to be in a European grouping for it's qualifying matchs from the teams it has played.

http://www.uefa.com/Competitions/WorldCup/Teams/Team=65/

[legin]

13. It may be a mistake to ignore

the political implications of Sport.

The much maligned owner of Harrods, bought Fulham football club poured lots of money into it, got a famous name manager, got them promoted up the leagues, and earned himself a lot of good publicity.

A Russian billionaire has just bought in the last week or so the famous London club, Chelsea. I can't help wondering what he is up to. He made his money when the State industries were broken up after the collapse of communism by ending up owning them. He owns half the Russian Aluminium industry amoung lots of other things including oil.

[legin]

14. Berlusconi

A keen football fan, like most Italians, he bought the first division AC Milan football club in 1986 and turned it into a team of champions.

a snip from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3045260.stm

[Gimel]

53. Eurovision

Israel also participates in the Eurovision song fests. Has won first place on occasion. Sports events are also in the European sphere. Israel is also a cross-roads of the three continents, and borders on the Meditteranean Sea, so has much in common with Europe.

Full membership may not be the goal for Israel in the EU, but trade relations are definately of interest.

[leesa]

12. Resolving disputes through genocide

I guess that's one way to end problems with your neighbors.

[aquart]

15. Genocide, my ass.

My you're quick to throw the accusations. Count up the Israeli dead yet? Thought not.

The Palestinians take out a bus, the Israelis bulldoze a house. House genocide?

But, by all means, give the Palestinians what they want. WHAT DO THEY WANT? Not what you hope they'll settle for, what do they want? What do they believe they're entitled to?

The Palestinian population will overwhelm Israel simply by birth within thirty years. Genocide?

btw, there is no distinct Palestinian language, or culture, or religion, or genes.

[newyorican]

17. actually...

According to modern definitions of Genocide, both Israel and the PA are not so innocent. The fact that neither are a signatory to the ICC means the chance of any prosecution is slim to none, but the modern definition does exsist (codified in international law).

*****
http://www.iccnow.org/html/icc19990712.html

Article 6


Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
*****
One more thing, the fact that Palestinians don't have a formal state does not exempt them from these laws. That loop-hole is closed.

One more thing, you question whether house demolitions should be considered genocide. A fair read of section (c) tells me that will (or would) be decided in court.

One more thing, you state (or question) that "The Palestinian population will overwhelm Israel simply by birth within thirty years. Genocide?" Firstly a 'Palestinian populace' would be in the future state of Palestine, not in Israel. Your statement concocts a ridiculous image of Israelis being driven into the sea by wailing Palestinian babies and a small army of mid-wives. Aside from the disturbing implications about a "solution" that your imaginary problem requires; even if Israeli-Arabs did become the majority population inside of Israel through a higher birth-rate, that's is not defined as genocide by any stretch.

One last thing, your comments about Palestinian culture, language, religion(?) and genes(?!?) are nothing to be proud of. You have an hour to edit your post, you might want to exercise that option.

[the_sam]

50. The Difference

Israeli crimes are sanctioned by a militarily powerful state.

The majority of Palestinian crimes since the mid-1970s have not been PA- or PLO-sanctioned. Rather, they've been carried out be rogue factions (like Hamas). There was a crackdown on these elements following Oslo. The Palestinians have been unable to respond as effectively in recent times because Israel has utterly destroyed the Palestinian security force (which is poorly armed and trained anyway), leaving it unable to apprehend many of the wrongdoers. Also, the submission of Fatah to Israeli demands has damaged its popularity, with many turning to groups like Hamas instead. Therefore, a crackdown on Hamas under current conditions could spark a civil war.

[absolutezero]

20. I hate to inform you

But the Israelis are really the bad guys in this whole mid east problem. In the 1890's an Austrian reporter managed to convince the European jews to emmigrate to a desert (Since most Europeans at the time hated them) The jews moved in, bought all the land from the plantation owners are threw all the workers into neighboring territories. Now they are constantly pushing Palestinians out of their territory and slowly expanding it, all with the backing of Americans who believe that all Muslims are evil.

[LivingInTheBubble]

22. Count up the Israeli dead yet?

Have you? There are more dead palestinians than israelis, and more of them are children.
Do you honestly believe they are only bulldozing houses? In case you hadnt noticed they even bulldoze American peace activists.
Pull off your blinkers.

[Scurrilous]

28. Palestinian Gene?

The Palestinians are genetically similar to the Jews of Israel. Why would they have a distinct gene all their own?

http://www.salam-shalom.net/salam-shalom/000511.htm

<snip>

By the yardstick of the Y chromosome, the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago.

[JNelson6563]

35. "there is no distinct Palestinian language, or culture, or religion,

or genes."

Excellent point. In fact, one could easily substitute American for Palestinian in that sentence. I guess I didn't realize how much we had in common. Interesting.

Julie

[sabbat hunter]

51. american culture, etc

quote from jnelson6563 "Excellent point. In fact, one could easily substitute American for Palestinian in that sentence. I guess I didn't realize how much we had in common. Interesting."

actually america DOES have a seperate culture. one could even say we have a seperate language. (although it is still called english it is different from the english spoken in england or the english of australia.)

i think what the original poster was trying to say was, that the palestinians share a religion, culture with the surrounding arab countries and one could argue that they are indistigushable from them.

i dont agree with that, just want to make sure peoples arguements are clear :)

peace

david
:hippie:

[the_sam]

59. Still wrong

"The Arabs" isn't some monolithic, homogenous group. There are many variations within Arab societies.

There is a distinct Palestinian dialect, style of art, and style of dress. They are as distinct from other Arabs as Americans are from Britons, Canadians, and Australians.

[The Stranger]

43. Your ass? I can think of several things you could do with your ass.

The Palestinian population will overwhelm Israel simply by birth within thirty years. Genocide?

This statement is indeed very revealing.

[the_sam]

49. Don't read much, do you?

My you're quick to throw the accusations. Count up the Israeli dead yet? Thought not.

Since the beginning of the second Al-Aqsa Intifada, three times as many Palestinians have been killed by Israelis. That many people cannot simply be considered "collateral damage". It would defy the laws of physics. In the first Intifada, ten times as many Palestinians were killed.

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and B'Tselem (and Israeli human rights group) have all documented Israel's campaigns of terror. A disproportionate number of Palestinians are shot in the head -- meaning that Israeli soldiers shot to kill.

Israel attacks on Palestinian civilians far exceed both in power and frequency any acts committed by the Palestinians. This isn't my evaluation; it's the evaluation of many reputable international human rights organizations.

The Palestinians take out a bus, the Israelis bulldoze a house. House genocide?

How about: war criminal Ariel Sharon visits the Temple Mount, kids throw stones, and soldiers shoot to kill? Again, Israel has engaged in deliberate killing designed to intimidate the Palestinians. Read Amnesty's reports.

Housing demolitions are illegal (and on several occasions, the Israelis have demolished houses with people inside). Israeli presence in the Occupied Territories in general is illegal. And these houses (hundreds of which have been demolished) very often aren't owned by terrorists. House demolitions are nothing more than a racist form of collective punishment.

And if that's not enough for you, how about the 3,293 Palestinians who were killed in the 1939 riots (versus 329 Israelis)? How about the thousands who were killed in the 1948-49 war? The 96 who were killed throughout the 1950s in Israeli violations of the armistice agreement? The 15,000+ who died in the invasion of Lebanon (versus 487 Israelis)? How about the million who were driven from their homes on pain of death from 1947-1949, and still aren't permitted to return?

But, by all means, give the Palestinians what they want. WHAT DO THEY WANT? Not what you hope they'll settle for, what do they want? What do they believe they're entitled to?

What do the Isrealis want? Some of them openly admit they want ethnic cleansing, including several parties in the current government. The writings of David Ben-Gurion and other early Zionists reveal a thirst for expansion.

But I don't engage in racist generalizations. "The Palestinians", is a group composed, like all groups, of individuals. Some of them want a state in the West Bank and Gaza. Some of them want the right to return or be compensated for the properties from which they were driven. Some of them want an Islamist state in all of historical Palestine.

Personally, I think they're entitled to one of two options. Either they should be given an independent, secular, and democratic state in the territories captured in the 1967 war, with its capital in Jerusalem. Further, they should be granted the right to return to or compensation for their properties lost in the 1948-49 war. In addition, Israeli Arabs should be granted full political, religious, social, civil, and human rights. Israel should cease to exist as a racially or religiously exclusive state.

If the Israelis will not grant the right of return or compensation and/or will not grant rights to Israeli Arabs, then the Palestinian should resume the fight for a secular, democratic state encompassing what is currently Israeli and the Occupied Territories. This state would grant full political, religious, social, civil, and human rights to its Jewish citizens.

The Palestinian population will overwhelm Israel simply by birth within thirty years. Genocide?

Yup, those bloodthirsy Ay-rabs are just itching for another Holocaust. BTW, 12,000 Palestinians fought for the Allies in World War II.

btw, there is no distinct Palestinian language, or culture, or religion, or genes.

Not exactly true. "The Arabs" are not some monolithic, homogenous ethnic group. Any group that speaks Arabic is considered Arab. Many different tribes and local cultures fit under this category. The Arabic language varies considerably from place to place.

There is a distinct Palestinian dialect. Furthermore, Palestinians have always been conscious of their status as inhabitatants of the "Holy Land", which has been a single, recognizable geographic unit for close to 1,000 years. The Palestinians are also the descendents of the Canaanites, who inhabited Palestine before the Hebrews. There is a distinctly Palestinian dress and artistic heritage.

But even if what you're saying was true, it wouldn't matter. The same could be said of Americans, Australians, and virtually all of Africa, South America, and Latin America. The Palestians are a people bound, more than anything else, by common experience. They want their rights. And if the Israelis won't give them their rights, they'll form their own nation. They're similar in this respect to the Americans.

You're basically arguing that Jewish culture is superior to Palestinain Arab culture, and therefore Palestians aren't entitled to basic human rights.

[Nottingham]

18. They want the Eu not American!

Dang! :bounce:

[Vernunft]

24. They already HAVE America anyways...

Time to take on the other rich place on Earth...

[NJGeek]

19. I want my foreskin back <eom>

[Vernunft]

23. It´s called EUROPEAN Union for a reason...

Terrorist states cannot be admitted. Unfortunately they can´t be ejected either or the UK would be out...

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. That leaves out the PA

nt

[BonjourUSA]

39. UK has already a foot in and a foot out

[Kamika]

25. great idea

I think it would be super if Israel would be to join EU. Anyone who has been to israel knows it is a very european country. And if Israel had whole EU behind it the arabs would hardly attack it and Eu would severly limit Israels unplanned bombing.

Turkey and Israel would be great in the EU

[rman]

26. un-european

you don't have to go to Israel to know there is government mandated discrimination of various kinds of jews within israeli society. it is reminisent of the caste system in India.

wrt housing:

*Ashkenazi Jews who have lived in Israel for many years are given first choice.

*Second in line are Ashkenazi Jews from europe - especially if they marry and Israeli born Ashkenazi Jew.

*The next favored are Ashkenazi jews from the U.S. - especially if they marry an Israeli born Ashkenazi.

*Sephardic Jews have the next choice of whatever housing is left.

*At the bottom of the list are Moslems, Druze and Christians.

[StandWatie]

56. hey, they get a couple seats in the knesset..

That's the usual brain numbing response from those that claim that Israel is a "democracy".

You can find a few Muslim Arabs there. The Likud figured out they could triangulate against the Labour Party by creating a new version of what it means to be Israeli (which is still a very vexed question) by making it "Jews that hate Muslims" which the Labour party tried ineffectually to answer by finding some token Sephardim to make as figureheads to put out their "Jews that hate Muslims lite" message in a pathetic display that mirrors the democratic party here in the USA.

It's all so sad and pitiful.

[Gimel]

61. Were do you find this?

There are public housing units in Israel. New immigrants get the highest priority in some buildings, the poor and single parents in others, the elderly and unemployed also get reduced rents. There is no discrimination based on Sephardic and Ashkenazic origin. That's BS. Moslems and Christians generally live in their own communities, although I have know Arab families (Bedouin and Druze) who have lived in apartments right along with the Jews. Even moved in first.

There is at times a waiting list because of a housing shortage. First in line are the new immigrants, and those who have waited the longest.

[Onlooker]

30. Good idea--Israel as part of the EU

If you're gay, a woman, a person of color, atheist, poor, anti-feudal, or anti-warlord, Israel is still the most progressive state in the Middle East. Though fundamentalists have way too much power in Israel, the only way their power will lessen is if Israel resolves its security issues. By entertaining the Israeli application, the EU can put considerable pressure on Israel to negotiate peace with the PLO.

Perhaps as time goes on, other Middle Eastern countries would consider giving up their feudal and oppressive systems to join the EU.

[Julien Sorel]

31. If Israel hasn't negotiated peace with the Palestinians

before being allowed to join the EU, joining certainly will not provide an incentive for them to do so. Israel's entire history shows that they are at their most arrogant and intransigent when they are in a position of stength vis a vis the Arabs; joining the EU would simply give them more economic room to manouver. The real losers would be the Palestinians, since a more prosperous Israel would mean more weight is behind the boot at the Palestinians' neck. Israel is now almost totally dependant on the U.S. economically and militarily, yet the U.S. has had very limited success in altering Israel's behaviors. I see nothing that suggests the EU would do any better.

[Capt_Nemo]

32. If this means that as a consequence

Israel will become a law abiding nation, I'm all for it.

Anyway, that is the only way this has a chance of happening.

[phgnome]

52. A bit skeptical

I'd love to think that it would work but I'm a little skeptical about it. I could see how it would boost a little too much confidence into the Israeli government's head. The EU may find themselves caught up in this internal dispute going on in Israel -- it's stable right now -- it's exactly what the EU doesn't need during its formative years.

[buddhamama]

34. i can view this as a positive

this could go far towards ending the war between Israel and Palestine and help mend relationships the conflict has hurt.

[ze_dscherman]

36. No way

There are many reasons that will prohibit this:

- not situated in Europe
- way to bad human right standards, including officially allowed torture
- unresolved conflict with Palestinans, disregard of U.N. resolutions
- undeclared posession and production of WMD's
- very weak economy that is heavily dependent on U.S. subsidies, thus distorting market competition within the EU

This proposal is a pipe dream. The EU will not lower standards to let Israel in, and I don't think EU would have any benefit of it.


BTW, the idea of Israel joining UN was proposed by ... Berlusconi.

[Dirk39]

37. Am I sleeping?

I never ever heard of this in Germany. Not in any paper, not in the News. I would highly welcome this.
If you as a german state Israel would have "bad human right" standards, I just want you to sit down for a second and think about, what kind of "human right standards" Germany would have, if it would be in a situation like Israel. What kind of right have germans anyway, to give Israel lectures in "human rights"?
Greetings from Germany,
Dirk

[ze_dscherman]

38. Two answers

1) Berlusconi, EU and Israel:
http://www.nahost-politik.de/europa/berlusconi-0.htm

2)I don't believe in the concept of inheriting sin from my ancestors. Belonging to a people that has comitted atrocities towards the Jewish, does not automatically disqualify me to criticize Israeli abuse of human rights and disregard for international law. I support Jewish/Palestinian peace groups such as Gush Shalom, that do not deny the wrongdoings of *both* sides, but seek for peace and consiliation nevertheless.

[BonjourUSA]

41. I was sleeping too !

[BonjourUSA]

40. And Israeli constitution is on religious bases

But this constitution can be change

[Dirk39]

47. While german citizenship is still related to race...

But the constitution can be changed.
And what about Poland. Didn't they participate in a not so legal war?

How was your sleep?
Dirk

[Paschall]

58. Hey, Dirk, I thought the German constitution...

...had already been changed.

We don't say "race" in French, but "blood." The "right of blood," (i.e. having German parents) gave you right to German citizenship. I thought that had been changed to the "right of land," meaning--as is the case in the US--citizenship is automatically granted if you are born on German soil.

Am I wrong?

[ozone_man]

45. Right, this should not even be considered at this point.

Personally, I am not convinced that Israel has the right to exist, but if it wanted to take steps toward convincing Arabs that it should, then it's time to let the Palestinians have their land back, acknowledge that they have a nuclear weapons program, and start to address the many U.N. violations that have been committed.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

44. If Israel is serious, I applaud them.

They will have to resolve the "Jewish State" issue though. How can a democracy exclude certain races of people from becoming citizens?

[Darranar]

46. Never going to happen...

There's too much anti-Israel sentiment in the EU. Whether justified or not.

[Imajika]

48. Great, even-handed post....

"There's too much anti-Israel sentiment in the EU. Whether justified or not."

Agreed. Justified or not, there is indeed quite a bit of anti-Israeli sentiment throughout much of the EU. I wouldn't necessarily say never, but I would guess that this idea is not going to be seriously considered for decades or longer.

Imajika

[StandWatie]

57. read the EU charter..

if they are denied it's because they indulge in things that no other member can do.

I'll hunt it up for you if you want but a state with "demographic concerns" is not going to be able to meet with the EU's version of human rights.

[Gimel]

62. That shouldn't matter

European nations like Germany and France also have "domographic concerns". Anyway, the latest is that the EU wants Israel in its Wider Europe scheme.

EU representatives who met with a Foreign Ministry delegation
in Brussels yesterday, as part of the annual meeting of the
Israeli-EU Association Agreement Committee, said that unlike in the past, EU-Israeli relations will no longer be conditional on the progress of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=316408&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

[StandWatie]

54. good deal

EU has standards about things like immigration policy and occupation that if Israel is serious would have to be addressed to maintain that relationship.

If the benefits of belonging to to the EU are enough to outweigh their current xenophibic policies it would be a turning point in Israeli foreign policy.

[bemildred]

55. Yeah. It would.

But I think this is just the usual cognitive disconnectedness.
Or maybe disinfo.
I still want to crack up when I read the headline, it is so
unlike what is actually happening.
I keep thinking of the "New Israeli Euro".

[IndianaGreen]

60. The Warsaw Pact needs new members!