Masada2000 and ‘Neil Pomper’: Kahanists as Sore Losers

[Tom Joad]

From Tikun Olam
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/03/28/masada2000-and-neil-pomper-kahanists-as-sore-losers/

A Kahanist allegedly named Neil Pomper was the first person to notify me that Masada2000 had a S.H.I.T. listing for me. This led, in turn to my notifyng the site's host about its content. This in turn led to the site being taken down. After this, I wrote to Neil (if that's his real name) suggesting that if he'd kept his big mouth shut, his site might still be beaming its hate all over the world.

Apparently, Neil hasn't been able to get Masada2000 up again. But he's resorted to the next best thing. Any slime bucket can create a blog at Blogger.com. So he's impersonated me, and mimicked my name and created this defamatory blog which also infringes on copyrights of two images I own.

I am disappointed that Neil isn't brave enough to turn on the blog's comment features so I can send all of my readers there to tell him what a shit he is. It is also possible that "Neil Pomper" is either Rachel Neuwirth or a "good friend" of hers since I've tussled with her as well here making her none too happy.
_______________________

Comment from Tom:
I am sure a few people will say, "of course i don't agree with masada2000, but what about 'free speech'". Just a reminder that personal defamation is not protected speech, nor do i think it should be protected speech.

I hope that mr. silverstein is able to get the new blog the hatemonger has put up down too. "Neil" or whatever his/her real name is has every right to criticize mr. silverstein or anyone else, he has no right to impersonate and defame Silverstein.

Anyway, all and all, with the end of Imus (who was not only famous for his racist jokes against african americans, but also made anti-Jewish and even more often the most vile anti-Arab remarks), and now with the end of masada2000, one of the most anti-Jewish sites on the web(and which, after all, was so early 21st century anyway), i think its cause for a little celebration.


:toast: :toast: :toast:

[Jim Sagle]

1. You were defamed? Why would anybody do THAT?

:wtf:

[Tom Joad]

4. The post says nothing about me.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. What does this have to do with I/P?

[Tom Joad]

3. Much, BTA. Mr. Silverstein writes about the conflict. Mr. Silverstein

was listed in the hate site, and it was a site that used defamatory and hateful language. The site's purpose was to intimidate Jews against dissenting against Israeli policies.

I think it has everything to do with the US policy and Israel/Palestine. If people who dissent are going to be victims of defamation, then they will be less likely to speak out... if people are afraid to speak out, then that hurts the debate.

[Jim Sagle]

5. Mr. Joad is renowned the world over as MISTER I/P, that's what.

;)

[Tom Joad]

7. ???

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[Tom Joad]

9. Other than the fact i posted Silverstein's comments, i don't understand

what i have to do with the story.

[Tom Joad]

29. I do expect you to address me accordingly, of course.

Never did explain what your comments were about. oh well.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

36. I'll repeat my obviously abusive post from memory also . .

. . where I asked you how to do a block quote. B-)

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Quotes

Click on the "HTML lookup table" when you are posting a reply. Then, you will use the following "(div class="excerpt")" TEXT (/div). But, instead of using parentheses use brackets, ][. That gives you the quote box...maybe Lithos can tell us how to change those boxes from green to yellow! :)

[msmcghee]

39. Thanks . .

. . for the instructions

I've clicked that link before but I think I've always used the scroll button on my mouse - which opens a new tab in Firefox - but just opens a empty page under a new tab in this case. So I just never found it and never spent the time to figure it out. I was blind but now I see.

[Tom Joad]

37. Jim, it seemed pretty clear to me.

I started the post with a link, then words from the link, then i added a line, then my own comments. All anyone had to do was go to the link, and see those were not my words. There are no rules about using the blockquotes (and msm,just hit the link where it says html lookup table to find out how to do that) but yeah, its not a bad idea to use them.

True, i added the "Comment from Tom:" part after you and bta commented.

Anyway, i expect we are all glad masada2000 is gone, as it was, besides very much an anti-Arab website, it was also an anti-Jewish website.

[Englander]

16. It certainly has quite a bit to do with this place -

Keyword search for "masada2000" produces some *interesting* results;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=128529#128604

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=103307#103386

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=90381#90442

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=88605#88857

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. interesting...the Kahanist have been a source for a number of post

although I will suspect most people who used them did not know it at the time. I will give them that much credit.

[Tom Joad]

22. There have been some who said Kahane is their hero.

and at least one of these people are still here at du, but don't post much anymore i think.

most of the kahane fans that were here at du have since been moved on... to a lower part of cyberspace, the underworld, so to speak.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. that is scary

I can forgive and feel no ill whatsoever toward many people who I am certain are misinformed or naive or unable to look past a deeply held belief system or identity. But to be a Kahanist like being a David Duke supporter require conscious evil.

,

[Violet_Crumble]

33. I don't give most of them that much credit...

I can't remember if it was here or on another forum, but one former I/P forum regular actually tried to defend their use of a link to Masada2000 in this forum, and portrayed them as merely being understandably angry at all the antisemitism sweeping the world, blah blah blah. There was *truth* in what Masada2000 said and we were just too blinkered in our beliefs to be able to see it. I think that sort of attitude is pretty repulsive, especially given the bigotry and personal attacks by way of the SHIT list that was evident on Masada2000....

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. I try to be charitable in my judgments

I would prefer to believe that people have been bamboozled into embracing and repeating demagoguery by gullibility to misinformation rather than nefarious intent.

I would hate to think that these people care more about hating Arabs and harming Palestinians then building a future where Jews, Christians and Muslims can live together in peace and equality. At least that is what I chose to believe and will continue to try my hardest to believe.

.

[Englander]

40. In some cases that may be correct.

In some cases it was most likely because the posted agreed with the views expressed at that place,
didn't see anything wrong with using a Kahanist site as a source, & then went on to defend the use of
the Kahanist site as a legitimite source of info.

[Englander]

43. "What does this have to do with I/P?"

Study: Anti-Semitic attacks hit record level in Britain in 2006
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=165413

Study: Attacks on Jews in Europe rose in 2006
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=164910

UK charity: Break peace with Jews
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=153476

Anti-Semitism. Is it rising, declining, or transforming to anti-Zionism?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=152338

German Turk takes on 'anti-Semitic Islamic propaganda'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=150754

SWC accuses BBC of broadcasting “blood libels”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=150045

[Tom Joad]

6. I was kinda hoping this would be something everyone would be happy about

i mean, who can't be happy this extremist hate site is out of cyberspace?

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. I find some of the comments left on Mr. Silverstein's website awesome

"Why are Arabs still buying cigarette shops? Do you think it’s because it’s the only business they could do as oppressed Arabs in the evil USA? Why is it they drive cabs? Why do they own almost all of our mom and pop convenience stores? Is it for the same reason? No, it’s because it keeps them embedded into our communities, just waiting for their opportunity for Jihad. Like I said, they are a patient enemy. They don’t like you!

That’s not paranoia Richard. I’m not saying we have to build shelters and have our kids hide under their desks at school, what I am saying is that they know they will never wage battle on us using military force. They don’t have too. They’re already prepared to cook us from the inside-out, like a micro-wave oven...."

_________________

I think of a Christian-Palestinian family I know with their little corner grocery; the kids and the grandmother all working together...

So that's what they're up to?

.

[Tom Joad]

10. sounds somethin like anti-Jewish bigotry. always the suspicions.

the "other" is often seen as this sinister force... no room for actual human interaction, always thinking the worst.

I think that is what Silverstein is working against... dehumanization, and working to stay human in a world that is in so many ways falling apart. doing what he can to heal the world.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. my thoughts exactly

some of the anti-Arab propaganda looks like stuff straight out of early 1930's anti-Semitic German Nazi propaganda

And you can find this same kind of blind hate on the best seller list of Amazon books and even sometimes in "mainstream" movies, the language of opportunistic politicians and on a lot of places like well on certain sites on the Internet. ( need not say anymore about that)

[Tom Joad]

14. We need to organize against all forms of bigotry.

[Tom Joad]

12. Silverstein's story in New York Times.

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/04/09/new-york-times-features-my-blog-pornographer-impersonator-story/
link above to his blog mention of article.
The context of the ny times story is "nastiness on the web"

here is the mention in the article:

Women are not the only targets of nastiness. For the last four years, Richard Silverstein has advocated for Israeli-Palestinian peace on a blog (richardsilverstein.com) that he maintains from Seattle.

People who disagree with his politics frequently leave harassing comments on his site. But the situation reached a new low last month, when an anonymous opponent started a blog in Mr. Silverstein’s name that included photos of Mr. Silverstein in a pornographic context.

“I’ve been assaulted and harassed online for four years,” he said. “Most of it I can take in stride. But you just never get used to that level of hatred.”

NY Times

[richards1052]

15. Thanks, Tom Joad for linking to my story...

Masada2000 was a Kahanist hate site which had a S.H.I.T. ("Self-Hating Israel-Threatening") list denouncing 8,000 liberal Jews for favoring peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It advocated, among other things, "reaming" Jewish women who supported peace. After I noted some of the worst aspects of the site to its host, it was taken down by the host.

The site's owner decided to get even by creating a site at Blogger.com which impersonates me using stolen images of me with my 4 yr old son. It uses my own name in the URL so some will think the site actually represents me. It speaks of sex acts I commit. It says my favorite book is Mein Kampf & among my "interests" is "destroying Israel."

Blogger refuses to take the site down. I interviewed with the NYT reporter in order to let the world know that hate speech really causes pain and that both bloggers and blogging platforms like Blogger should do more to promote civility and respect online. Bullies should not get to hide behind a company that refuses to enforce its own terms of service.

This will provide more background on this particular case:
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/04/08/bloggercom-refuses-to-take-down-pornographic-defaming-site/

[Douglas Carpenter]

18. welcome to DU Mr. Silverstein

I thought your "comment is free" writing in the Guardian is really good stuff:

links:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/richard_silverstein/2007/02/cracks_in_the_wall.html

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/richard_silverstein/

_____________________

Also your Israel/Palestine blogs:

http://israelpalestineblogs.com/


.

[bemildred]

19. Second that. nt

[Tom Joad]

23. Thank YOU! eom.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. I'm sorry you became the target of bullies and creeps...

And kudos to you for bringing the sick hatred of Masada2000 to the attention of the web host. As you've pointed out this isn't a free speech issue, though I'm sure there'll be more than a few who would have no problems in restricting or stopping yr ability to speak trying to claim that they're supporting the right of free speech. I've seen the free speech argument used to try to defend the most disgusting things, here at DU and at other places on the net...

People need to be told about what Blogger accepts and how it doesn't enforce its TOS. I'm sure there are other places that host blogs that do have more integrity and which wouldn't tolerate violations of their TOS. Thankfully, I suspect I'm with one of them, but for anyone who has a blogger account, I'd be suggesting they ask to close their account and move elsewhere...

[xchrom]

17. kick

[bemildred]

20. An interesting way to fight hatred and bigotry, if I ever saw one.

It seems to me Mr. Silverstein's free speech is as protected as anyone's, so I don't see any issue there.

[richards1052]

25. It's NOT a free speech issue!

Web hosts have no obligation to honor free speech. Blogs & websites are not the public square. They are spaces welcome to the public but which are owned first by the site owners but secondarily controlled by web hosts whose servers are used to host the blog material. Web hosts are entirely within their rights to take down any site which breaches their terms of service.

My 'free speech' isn't an issue here because I haven't breached any terms of service of my web host. Masada2000 had no right under Bsinet's (the site's web host) TOS to call for Jewish women to be raped or to picture me next to a man's hairy ass as if to say that I 'kiss Arab butt' (the site owner's terms, not mine).

And once again, the Blogger.com fake blog also violates multiple provisions of Blogger's TOS, but in this case Blogger refuses to remove the site.

I'd like to see if it was your ox being gored how you'd react.

[bemildred]

26. I wasn't referring to you Sir, in that comment.

I think you were entirely within your rights, and I would have done the same thing. I was referring to the other fellow, who I am sure, in his own mind, considers that he is fighting bigotry and hate speech against Jews, and so on. I'm sorry if I was not clear and it upset you. My apologies.

[richards1052]

41. My apology

I was off base in my comment to you. I didn't read what you wrote carefully enough & assumed you were saying something you weren't. My apology.

[bemildred]

44. Well. I accept, of course, however ...

I read what I wrote carefully, and I was not clear, I tend to be too elliptic, but I like to be elliptic, so it was not merely that you overreacted. And you have had a most difficult time, I consider what was done to you a form of assault, and I would not mind it being treated as such as a matter of law, although that would raise it's own issues. You are right that it has nothing to do with "free speech". So I still think I owe you that apology for not being more sensitive to the situation, and I appreciate that you felt obliged to do the same.

-- B

[Tom Joad]

27. Lee Hays: "If it weren't for the honor of it all, i would just assume i wasn't blacklisted. "

Lee Hays was a member of the folk group "The Weavers" that was blacklisted during the McCarthy error in the fifties.

I think the people on the Masada2000 list was actually, with some exceptions, people who deserve our applause.

Like many of the people who were caught up in the anti-communist hysteria of the fifties.

oh, and speakin' of the Weavers....
Randy Gilbert, formerly of the Weavers, will be part of the cultural Lineup of the Jewish Voice for Peace National Meeting and Conference later this month. (a whole lotta these folks were blacklisted by the notorious masada2000 website also).

Check this out:
http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

[richards1052]

42. Jewish Voice for Peace...

Is a great organization. I was invited to make a presentation at the conference & would've loved to have done so. But 3 little kids make it hard for me to travel out of my own home sometimes, much less to SF.

[Tom Joad]

30. Reputation Defender. this might come in handy.

http://www.reputationdefender.com/myrep.php

This company helps people keep their reps. With the proliferation of hate sites that seem determined to spread slanderous information about those who work for peace in the Middle East, i am keeping this in my bookmarks.

[UndertheOcean]

45. Yippie !!!

:)

[Englander]

46. "Five ways to defeat blog trolls and cyberstalkers"

Five ways to defeat blog trolls and cyberstalkers
Trolling can lead to far worse things, including cyberstalking

>snip

The difference is, with 70 million blogs in existence today and 1.4 new blogs created every second, according to blog search engine Technorati Inc., there are just more people participating in online discussions, and "the more crazy people you've got reading them, the wilder the whole blogosphere can become," says Richard Silverstein, who advocates for a peaceful approach to solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in his blog.

And he should know. Like Sierra, Silverstein is the victim of online harassment, in the form of hostile comments on his own blog, in external discussion groups and on blogs created solely for the purpose of maligning him. Given the topic that he blogs about, Silverstein is no stranger to abusive commentary. "It's part of the territory -- if you want to write a blog like this, you're going to deal with unpalatable people," he says.

But when the external blogs -- whose creators were anonymous -- grew increasingly threatening, including what he saw as pornographic photographs, he began to feel personally harassed. "I've felt insecure and under threat," he says. "No one has said, 'I'm going to come and kill you,' but there were some comments that got me concerned. You hate to think of these things, but it's very possible that some wacko will escalate from a threatening comment to actually doing something."

Silverstein has been able to uncover the identities of the bloggers, but he's been unable to force the blogs' removal, despite repeated correspondence with Blogger.com, which cites Section 230 of the Communication Decency Act that shields providers of content creation tools from liability for the content users create. In an e-mail sent to Silverstein, Blogger.com said that the site "does not remove allegedly defamatory, libelous or slanderous material from Blogger.com or BlogSpot.com," pursuant to Section 230, although it did remove the photographs because they were copyrighted images.

http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9017938&pageNumber=1

[Englander]

47. Masada2000: Hate Bites the Dust Once More

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/

[richards1052]

48. Jewish Currents article on Masada2000 & "Self-Hating Jews"

Thanks Englander for those references to the Computerworld article about my cyber harassment at the hands of Masada2000 & my latest post written after the site went down a 2nd time.

Jewish Currents has published a terrific research piece, In Defense of Self-Hating Jews, on Masada2000 in which it interviewed 75 of those individuals profiled on the site's infamous S.H.I.T. List including Noam Chomsky, among others. It makes for fascinating reading especially the discussion of the abuse of the term 'self-hating Jew.'

BTW, I recent received a threat of a defamation suit from a woman who helped arrange for Masada2000 to post my own personal S.H.I.T. list entry.