Eitam gets slap on the wrist for anti-Arab remarks

[Scurrilous]

Attorney general says MK's call to expel Arabs from West Bank and Knesset border on criminal offense, decides not to investigate, but gives severe warning

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3345871,00.html

<snip>

"Attorney General Menachem Mazuz has decided on Thursday, that National Union-NRP Knesset Member Effie Eitam's anti-Arab remarks border on criminal offense.

Nonetheless, he has decided that a criminal investigation will not be opened against Eitam at the current time. Eitam was warned that the next time he makes similar remarks, he may be investigated.

During the second Lebanon war , a few months ago, Eitam participated in a memorial service for First Lieutenant Amihai Merhavia, who had been killed in Lebanon.

During the service he made harsh remarks against Arabs saying: "We will have to expel most of the Judea and Samaria Arabs from here. We cannot be with all these Arabs…We will have to make another decision, to remove the Israeli Arabs from the political system."

Following these remarks, Arab MKs turned to the attorney general and demanded a criminal investigation be opened against Eitam for incitement to racism."

[dave_p]

1. It was always the agenda

He's honest. Hell, pin a medal on the guy for saying what his government keeps quiet about!

[cali]

2. Nonsense.

He is represntative of a portion of the Israeli gov't- hardly the entirity.

[dave_p]

3. Let them show it

I'm willing to be dissuaded.

[cali]

5. Then do some reading. n/t

[Tom Joad]

4. That's not true.

The government is not quiet about its anti-Arab racism. Never has been. Avigdor Lieberman is yet another example of a long tradition.

[cali]

6. Unlike, say,

the tradition of Hamas, who have never espoused hatred or racism.

[Englander]

7. Now, that was a bizarre response.

Why are you trying to change the subject? Or, if that response was related to Eitam's racist
comments, could you explain why it's related?

Title of article;
Eitam gets slap on the wrist for anti-Arab remarks

[cali]

8. Not at all bizarre.

There are politicians in every country who say repulsive things. Why right here in the U.S., Rep. Goode made anti-Muslim remarks and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

[Englander]

9. Yeah, what's all the fuss about?

Any chance that the questions in my post will be addressed, or that the actual subject of the thread
will be commented on?

I can repeat them, if you like.

[cali]

10. I'm not trying to change the subject.

The remarks were despicable. He's been reprimanded. That's good. And when you post one, just one article, that's critical of some aspect of Palestinian society, I might take your high indignation about all things Israeli, a little more seriously. What's wrong with Israel, imo, is simple: It's the Occupation of the WB and Gaza, and that's a big deal. The endless stories you post about the flaws in Israeli society, generally aren't. So see my responses in this thread in that context.

[Englander]

12. Oh, cali, cali, cali....

I think an apology is in order for that one, whenever you feel like it. Since you've managed to
provide a false representation of my posting history, & an apology wouldn't go amiss for such a
shocker, & such a collection of false claims.

[cali]

13. What claims are false?

You do indeed post a litany of stories about the negative aspects of Israeli society that have nothing to do with the Occupation. That's certainly your privilege, but you do indeed do it. If I've misrepresented your posting history- and I certainly don't claim to know it inside and out- tell me how I've misrepresented it and post some links. If I'm wrong I'll gladly apologize.

[Englander]

14. All of them?

Right. So, you've made baseless claims, mixed in with clueless abuse, not provided any evidence of
these "endless stories", beyond claiming they exist. Then, when it's been pointed out that the
claims are false, & an apology is in order, you serve up some self-serving crap, don't provide any
evidence of any "endless stories", fail to apologise for making the original baseless claim, repeat
it, & then ask the accused to provide evidence of their innocence. How disingenuous is that?

[cali]

15. Heh.

Your high dudgeon strikes an odd note. I've hardly engaged in "clueless abuse". I've pointed something out that's fairly obvious- that you have a penchant for posting articles about flaws in Israeli society that have little to do with actual I/P affairs. You object with great indignation but provide NOTHING to dispute my claim, make far uglier charges against me than I did against you, and then demand an apology? One word: No.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. How about talking about the topic of the thread rather than about another poster?

Just a suggestion...

[Englander]

33. You've done no such thing, & it's patently obvious.

Because not a single article, or even the subject of any article, has been produced to substaniate
any claims of any "endless stories". If there are any "endless stories", why it is so difficult to
produce any links? Not even one? And I haven't made any ugly charges against yourself, beyond
describing what's been occuring in this thread. If there are any ugly charges, can you point them
out?

[pelsar]

24. cali did request some links....

which is certainly a reasonable request.....and did offer to apologise if proven wrong.....and i admit i too am curious about those links...got any?

btw:

Then, when it's been pointed out that the claims are false....i missed that post...would you point out to me where its shown that clali's claims are false?

[Violet_Crumble]

32. He doesn't have to supply links to anyone based on someone elses petty accusation...

Is there some reason neither you or Cali don't have the ability to use the search function to show yrselves very rapidly that yet again Cali made an accusation against another poster that is completely untrue? Seeing yr both unwilling to do so, I'll start it off for you...

The claim from Cali was: 'The endless stories you post about the flaws in Israeli society, generally aren't.' She was very incorrect, and of course she already knew she was when she threw in that line about not being familiar with his posting history so she might be wrong...

OPT: The Agreement on Movement and Access one year on

Dutch bank divests holdings in J'lem light rail, cites settlements

In Palestine, a Dream Deferred

Costa Rica opens its embassy in Tel Aviv after closing Jerusalem mission

Bulldozing the rule of law

European states offer Middle East peace plan without UK

I think you get the idea. I could go on and on with these links but let's wait for Cali to come and explain to us how any of these or the others from the search results are endless stories about the flaws in Israeli society ;)

[Englander]

34. Thanks, Vi.

I was going to post pretty much the same articles as those, in yesterdays response to cali, but I
guessed it would be much more entertaining for the hole to be dug, (or for 'ignored' to come along
to help with the digging) & then provide the links. I already knew the original claim was false, &
I wanted to see what would be the reaction if I asked for an apology from someone who had made a
claim that was false, & that is clearly false.

[pelsar]

16. no i dont think cali has...

i really cant recall a single post of yours that is not in some way "anti israel" be it the society or its politicians as well as policies....and i cant recall a single one that criticizes the palestenains....

[Tom Joad]

17. Our government is militaristic and racist....

Our government, in the words of Martin Luther King, which stands as true today as 40 years ago, is the most violent on earth.

That is why it is a natural ally to Israel.

[pelsar]

19. if the US is the most violent on earth...

i would guess that being an alley with the ex-USSR (stalin), China (mao), Sudan, Rwanda, Cambodia (pot pol), syria (hama), algeria, would be far more appropriate than israel....in terms of actual killing people israel ranks far far below so many other countries...

funny how that is.....israel has killed far less palestenains than jordan......and yet somehow israel gets the 'evil" trophy by you.....as col klink would say: very interesting.... (old sit com for those who dont know)

----------------------
i think violet wanted to ask you something:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x161579....no 30

[Tom Joad]

29. I could have mentioned, by the way, dozens of other tyrants and rogue regimes that have

been assisted by the US. From Indonesia's Suharto (killed 1/3 of the people of East Timor); Guatemala's worst dictators, known for genocidal massacres; several dictatorships in Africa, from Charles Taylor to the South African apartheid regime, Saddam Hussein... back in the day... hey, long history there. So Israel fits right in, not saying its the worst or the best, just saying it fits.

[pelsar]

30. now i feel better....

i could also add France, and Britain to the list...Argentina, Zimbabwe, and probably every other country in Africa, S. America and Europe..perhaps one should list the countries that weren't involved in some kind of oppression? do you know of any? (maybe iceland....)

[Tom Joad]

21. The full quote from Rev. Martin Luther King.

They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html

The US at the time was slaughtering hundreds of thousands in Vietnam, eventually killing millions.

Today the US is killing in Iraq, and preparing for wars in the near future.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. That isn't the first time Etaim's called for the transfer of Arabs....

Back in 2004, Baruch Kimmerling said this in an article he wrote about Benny Morris:

'Formerly, solutions involving transfer were voiced openly only by followers of Meir Kahane. Yet by 1990, another party endorsing "voluntary transfer," General Rehavam Ze'evi's Moledet Party, had become part of the Israeli government coalition. The "voluntarily" was added only to preserve the party from being accused of inciting a crime. Presently, Moledet (as part of a parliamentary bloc headed by Benny Elon, another supporter of "transfer") is again part of the government. In 2002, the National Religious Party chose a new leader, General Effie Eitam, who has called for transfer of hostile Arabs to other countries if a major war presented an opportunity.'

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=5151

on edit: tidied up title of post...

[Tom Joad]

18. Let's not forget Naftali Tamir, either. Seems to be a pattern.

In the case of Tamir, it may be true that he was eventually replaced (not immediately) how can it be that those that appointed him in the first place didn't know what kind of sick racist they were dealing with?

He was not shy about sharing his views. His most offensive comments were in a interview with a mainstream Israeli paper... not overheard while he was whispering to someone... he thought it all natural and right.

General Iffie Eitam comes out of a racist, Kahanist party. I am sure the Isreali government is SHOCKED by his uttering racist comments. Just shocked.

[pelsar]

20. even racists get protected...

we call it socialist democracy...everyone gets their say without fear of getting shot or having their family killed....

its preferable that way...for the alternative, may i suggest you look at the palestenian society......better yet...why dont you give us a description of their present justice system, for instance how they treat gays?...or perhaps how they treat couples that hold hands in gaza city?

if we are looking at the two societies....by all means, lets compare...... (this will probably end the discussion....)

[Tom Joad]

22. What year will you learn to spell "Palestinian"?

It is NOT palestenian.

And no one suggested that this ambassador get shot and his family killed. I was suggesting that people like that are not fit for the roles Israel has given them, when they are clearly racist.

Political assassination is what Israel does to Palestinians. In fact, if he were a Palestinian official, not only would there be fear of him being killed, his family attacked and maybe killed along with him, but fear throughout his neighborhood, since Israel could send a US supplied half-ton bomb on his apartment complex he lives in. That's another sign of Israeli "justice".

[pelsar]

23. probably the sametime i learn to capitalize israel....

they may not be fit for roles in the israeli govt......as far as many are concerned, but a segment of the israeli population probably believe they should be there.....part of a socialist democracy, built upon naive utopian socialistic ideals

but political assasination.....been missing the news recently?...here let me help: fatah and hamas have been pretty busy attacking not just each others politicians and military personal but the children as well.

I would assume it would be bothersome to you, knowing that the people you are defending when left "on their own" start killing, kidnapping and otherwise terrorizing each other, not to mention the inability to keep to a very simply ceasefire with israel......the interesting aspect is....can you even mention it here?...that the Palestinians might just have a civil problem?...can you?

if you actually really care about the Palestinians and not just the occupation, it would seem to me you should be very very worried about hamas (as in taliban, iran) with their theocratic facist ideology taking over...they are afterall not just a single govt employee but the whole govt....or doesnt that even bother you? (I could really find some great quotes for you if you would like, and perhaps you would like to comment how they really shouldnt be in the govt?)

[breakaleg]

25. It's my understanding that the policy of targeted assasinations is one of Israael's.

Yet you say it like it's an impossibility. But I guess they only do that to the other side, not their own.

[pelsar]

26. israeli targeting was not the issue....

the subject i believe was the internal societies ways of dealing with its political differences: one of those societies has a present tendency to kill its political and military opponents the other takes a more tolerant view. "Tolerence of the other" is a foundation of a liberal society (apparently thats not true for some posters here)

in this case i'm trying to stick to the original subject.....which is internal societies of israel and the Palestinians....care to join in?

[breakaleg]

27. So we're clear....

Israel kills politicians, just not their own. If you see that tolerance well, they need to work on that.

[pelsar]

28. sure we do...

We kill/arrest Palestinians who our military/political leaders deems the enemy and is felt to be a threat to israeli lives. I dont think there is any doubt about it, its considered a integral part of war. Tolerance toward people who want to kill you, destroy your society is not always a good thing and in fact liberal societies must defend themselves, i.e. be "illiberal". l But like i said, the discussion was actually about the internal societies and your welcome to join in, we can discuss the pros and cons of democracy vs religious "democracies" (dont know if here is such a thing)....and its implications.....