Israel 'to ease' W Bank friction

[cali]

Five West Bankers have died in Israeli fire since the ceasefire
Israel has ordered its troops to avoid "unnecessary friction" in the occupied West Bank, amid efforts to shore up a ceasefire with the Palestinians.

Deputy Defence Minister Ephraim Sneh acknowledged in an army radio interview that "the army has not always paid enough attention to such frictions".

Arrests and air strikes targeting Palestinian militants will also have to be approved at senior level.

<snip>

"Instructions have been issued to avoid unnecessary frictions and to abstain from actions that could serve as a pretext," Mr Sneh told Israeli army radio.

<snip>


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6205934.stm

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. James Earl Carter is not noted for his hyperbole. When he calls Israel's

occupation worse, in some ways, than Apartheid, that is saying something.

Why is the US media so bloody quiet about this disaster? It stokes the worst of the worst excesses throughout the region. And Condi and Georgie, Rumie and Stevie, and everyone else in the administration are egging Israel on.

[cali]

2. Huh?

What does that have to do with this article? I completely agree with you about the admin's disasterous policies re I/P affairs, but this is merely an article about the tenuous ceasefire, which I'm sure, we'd all like to see succeed.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. Jimmy has made the rounds about Israel - Palestine over the past 2 days

and what he was saying made a lot of sense. The temporary ceasefire is only one of many that Palestinian forces have been holding on to, not that our MSM mentions things like that. At the same time, Israel has been INCREASING its attacks on unarmed people, killing women and children. It is simply a logical follow-up to your article. Carter clarifies what is happening in this region, and the breaking of cease-fires seems to be an Israeli tactic, timed to coincide with other events, so its largest patron can avoid public comment about it.

[cali]

4. I don't have TV

so I haven't seen Carter, but he certainly knows more about I/P and SA apartheid than I do, so if he says that the WB is worse than SA under apartheid, I take him at his word. However, Israel has not broken the cease fire, or increased attacks on Palestinians since it was instituted on Nov. 26. And the Palestinians have been doing their best as well, despite the rockets being fired from Gaza. One can only hope that both sides maintain this fragile ceasefire. Both sides in the past have been guilty of transgressions during ceasefires.

[newyorican]

5. Claims/Counter-Claims of violations...

70 Zionist violations of the truce agreement in the first week

The first day of the truce - Sunday 26th November
• Israelis arrest a man in Hebron city;
• Arrest one in Beituniya, near Ramallah;
• Four boys arrested in Abu Dis;
• One boy injured in 'Azzun, near Qalqilia


The second day – Monday 27th November
• The killing of the leader of the An Nasser Salah Addin Brigades in Qabatia, south of Jenin;
• The killing of an elderly lady, also in Qabatia;
• The arrest of six Fatah members in Nablus;
• The arrest of three Hamas members in Qalqilia;
• The arrest of two Hamas members in Ramallah;
• The arrest of three Hamas members in Hebron;
• The arrest of a Palestinian at the israeli barrier near Qalqilia,
• The arrest of three more in Nablus
• A military incursion into Bethlehem, and the arrest of another Palestinian.

The list goes on for quite a bit. The characterization of the events can be debated, but not the fact that such events are violations of a cease fire.

FYI: This source is new to me, I would recommend a cursory review of the latest news page to decide for yourself. In any case, it appears to only thing to be argued with the link is the characterization of the conflict, not the actual facts presented.

Palestinians accuse Israel of violating ceasefire for 70 times

There appears to be much less activity from the Palestinians

13,000 Palestinian security forces maintain cease-fire

Rocket attacks shake Mideast cease-fire

[cali]

6. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding

that the ceasefire did not include the WB, and all the infractions listed you listed, from what is clearly not an unbiased source, refer to events in the WB. I am by means condoning those actions, but wonder if I'm correct in my statement that the ceasefire agreement was that Israel would withdraw all forces and cease all attacks and activity in Gaza.

[msmcghee]

7. You are correct, of course.

However, some of the militias in Gaza have made statements that they would not accept a cessation of hostilities in Gaza unless the WB was also included in the cease fire.

These same groups then claim that any IDF action in the WB is therefore a violation of the cease fire. It is political propaganda designed to derail the cease fire - eagerly picked up and repeated in this forum.

[cali]

8. I wasn't wrong.

The agreement was that the Israelis would withdraw from Gaza in return for a cessation of rocket fire and attacks from Gaza. Your list of infractions by Israelis is misleading, and your use of a site so biased is akin to the use of the a far right Israeli site.

[newyorican]

9. Yes the site is biased...

...which is why I added the disclaimer (though it appears to have been ignored). Also why I added the other links (which have also been ignored). Ignoring the other links and the actual events (minus characterizations) makes it easy to dismiss the whole issue, yes?

However biased the site, the incidents are still there listed, and not all incidents are in the WB.

Further, it is foolish and stupid to believe that Israelis can claim to honor a ceasefire with Gaza, while simultaneously going hogwild in the WB. They are all Palestinians. Either there is a ceasefire, or there isn't.

[cali]

10. Actually, I did utilize your other links

but as you emphasized the Paltoday claims, from as you admit, a biased source, I spoke to your emphasis.

Now, how hard is this to understand? Israeli operations in the WB, whatever one may think of them- and I think of them as oppressive- are not part of the ceasefire between the two parties, ergo the Israelis have not broken the ceasefire by continueing their operations in the WB, and the source you chose to emphasise is simply lying when they state that by said actions, Israel broke the ceasefire.

A little intellectual honesty would be most welcome.

[newyorican]

11. Yes it would be refreshing...

The fourth day - Wednesday 29th November
• Israeli artillery shelled the northern area of the Gaza Strip

The above it at odds with your statement in append #6:

"However, Israel has not broken the cease fire, or increased attacks on Palestinians since it was instituted on Nov. 26."

In addition, the "agreement" between the 2 parties appears to be under dispute. The Palestinians want a ceasefire, the Israeli only want to stop killing some Palestinians. I'll repeat, those that place any faith in the later position are foolish and are not interested in an actual cessation of hostilities.

[cali]

12. You posted propaganda

and lies. I called you on it. I'm not fond of propaganda and lies wherever they come from- Israel, Palestine, the U.S., etc.

You can squirm on about it, but when it comes down to it, all anyone has to do is read your first post on this thread.

[newyorican]

13. I understand...

it's difficult to deal with the fact that Israel has violated the ceasefire (though they aren't alone) after staking out a position that they have not. Some find it impossible to admit being wrong.

It's also understandable when the facts cannot be refuted, to attack the source or messenger. Unfortunate, but understandable.

[cali]

17. You're not even within shouting distance of the truth

You posted something that was patently and obviously propaganda. Let's be fucking clear here. I'm not an apologist for anything or anyone, and I'm frequently critical of Israel. Your false claim that I find it difficult to deal with the fact that Israel has violated the cease fire, are simply a way of insinuating that I'm an apologist for Israel. That is far from the truth. If Israel has fired at a fishing vessel off Gaza, as I've seen reported in this forum, that is indeed a violation.

The "facts" in your absurd post from the even more absurd website you utilized, were misrepresented. The WB is not part of the ceasefire agreement. Now I may think it should be, but it ain't. Your charming little site- with its references to martyrs and it's front page showcasing of an Ahmadinejad rant about the demise of the zionist state- claimed that Israeli actions in the WB were violations. They are not.

And yes, I'll certainly attack lies where I find them and repugnant websites.



edited for accuracy and clarity.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Are you sure about that fishing boat?

There was only one report, also from an unnamed source and a denial from the IDF in Ha'aretz. If it could have been substantiated, don't you think it would have been blasted all over the Arabic news sites? Interestingly enough, the one thing you believe to be a violation (and would if it is true), doesn't appear in the "70 charges" from a site that is obviously propaganda.

[oberliner]

14. Do you have any source for this Gaza Strip shelling incident

besides www.paltoday.com?

[msmcghee]

15. Maybe that Australian newspaper . .

. . that did the big story about the missiles going through the red crosses on the top of those two Lebanese ambulances might have something on this.

:sarcasm:

[newyorican]

21. See post #20

n/t

[pelsar]

16. shelling?

no news on it anywhere....perhaps a second source?.....anything.........(lots of reporters in gaza and other intls)...some blogs too....wounded?

[newyorican]

20. Army shells areas northern Gaza strip

Israeli army tanks stationed at the northern side of the Gaza Strip fired several shells hitting open areas in Beit Lahia town in northern Gaza strip, on Wednesday morning.

No injures or damage were reported but the shelling created panic among the residents, this shelling violates the ceasefire deal declared three days ago by the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Source

[newyorican]

22. Israeli artillery shelling kills two Palestinians

Two Palestinians, one Hamas militant and one police officer, were killed in an Israeli artillery shelling on eastern Gaza Strip Saturday night, security sources said.

An Israeli army tank fired several artillery rounds at a Palestinian security post near the Karni commercial crossing on the borders between eastern Gaza Strip and Israel.

Source

[oberliner]

23. People's Daily Online?

This is the source you are choosing to cite?

It is a good thing China has such a free and open press so that they can bring us these news stories.

[newyorican]

24. You asked...

...for a site other than Paltoday. I provided 2 sources.

Here too, I understand the reluctance. It's rather sad.

Perhaps you would prefer a source more like Arutz Sheva? Unfortunately Arutz Sheva doesn't recognize the existence of the WB or Gaza, so I won't hold my breath.

[pelsar]

25. perhaps...

the new york times, haaretz, washington post, time...even the guardian......might have a bit more credability.....how about the Hamas spokesman? PA?.....

maybe its a conspiracy.....

[oberliner]

26. Arutz Sheva?

They are a far right-wing new source.

How about BBC, Reuters, UPI, AP?

[newyorican]

19. Must be something in the water down here...

...people are more wacky and vitriolic than usual..

Israeli military resumes shelling in northern Gaza; rejects call for ceasefire in West Bank

The Israeli Defense Minister, Amir Peretz, announced Sunday that Israeli forces will resume their shelling of northern Gaza, and will continue the daily invasions and attacks of the West Bank.

The ceasefire, which began last Sunday, has been violated several times by both the Israeli navy, which fired at Palestinian fishing boats off the Gaza coast, and by rogue Palestinian resistance factions that fired several homemade shells across the Gaza-Israel border, causing no injury or damage.