Not another dime for the Israeli war machine!

[High Plains]

Israel has now murdered 82 people in Lebanon in four days. It is systematically destroying the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon, a war crime. And it is doing it with OUR tax dollars.

It is past time to cut these murderous fuckers off. If they want to wage war like this, they can do it on their own goddamned dime.

It is time for a fundamental reappraisal of the US-Israeli relationship. Israel is a huge albatross around our necks. We should not be endangered for Israel's sins.

[MissWaverly]

1. It's time to allow them the benefit of self rule

we have given them 100 billion dollars support, it's enough, first the whole Middle East
strategy needs revamped by UN and secondly, we are giving them aid while denying it to our
own people, that's outrageous, and thanks to George's policies, there's even less left for
the American people instead of the wealthy elite or war profiteers.

[ladjf]

2. Two good posts. There isn't a prayer that our government will

agree with us. We're just venting, without effect on DU. America has millions of citizens that know
what the political situation is. But, those are not in charge.

[MissWaverly]

5. No, George did not get the trifecta with this that he hoped

I have even seen criticism of this on CNN, what he wants and has done everything to get
is 911 Part Two, hence our insane policies in Iraq, GITMO, Abu Ghraib, etc. He was only
at 40% pre-911, and 90% post 9-11, same way with Rudy, he polled at 32% pre-911, and has
been at 80% and 90% ever since.

[ladjf]

7. Good point. But, you are more optimistic than I.

[MissWaverly]

9. well, I think we are further down the road than Bush realizes

I think the US is willing to turn inward, and focus on domestic issues, Americans have always
been reluctant to get involved abroad with "foreign" issues. It was only Hitler and WWII and
the rise of communism that caused us to become involved. Now, I think America regrets the
Iraq War and our Middle East entanglements.

[ladjf]

13. I don't disagree with your arguments. I am just unable to imagine

that a worthless Congress and Senate such as ours would have the courage and intellect to stop this
insane situation.

[MissWaverly]

17. well, I read somewhere that George is polling at 29, Cheney 12

now an Al Gore or a popular Clinton might have gotten support of a Middle East bail out,
no holds barred fight, that is not going to happen with him, the Generals have been saying
that the troops were at the breaking point, so what are our options now, they are not
military, and thanks to John Bolton our un-confirmed recess appointment to the UN,
there is little backing for us on diplomacy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Unfortunately, considering our politicians, fat chance.

Opposing Israeli aggression, or anything that Israel does, is one of those "third rail" issues that politicians scamper at high speed from.

[ChuckyDee]

28. Oh come on with the cutting-off of aid to Israel.....

People were calling for the cutting-off of aid LONG before the current intifada and Sharon when Israel was playing patty-cakes with the terrorists and trying to negotiate with psychopaths who will never go for peace in that region.

Honestly - unless Israel does nothing but allow the Arabs to steamroll them, nothing they do is good enough for the Jew-hating world. Israel may be THE most liberal nation in the world and they're CERTAINLY not the only country "occupying" another - (like France for example) - and they're certainly FAR from the worst offending country in the world. They do not deserve all the condemnation coming from all the Jew haters here.

I criticize their policies too, but I don't rant and rave against every single move they make.

Bottom line: What should Israel do or not do to keep US funding coming in? Be reasonable, okay? I'll hold my breath.

[MissWaverly]

34. I am not a jew hater, I am saying guns & missiles are not working

we have spent 100 billion on a failed strategy, it's time for a different tune, and not bombs
and missiles, I have already stated money tied to a cooperative collaboration between all
affected parties with UN involvement.

[liberaliraqvet26]

4. DU will lock this thread soon. We should know better than to....

question the almighty Israeli government.

[cali]

8. There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticism

and condemnation of Israel's actions. They deserve it. There is something wrong with referring to Israelis as murderous fuckers, of Israel as a parasite or cancerous blot and other similar examples of puerile name calling that I've seen in the last few minutes. It adds zip to the discourse. And your implication that DU mods lock threads because of criticism of Israel, is just wrong.

[Swede]

11. cali,you have been the most even-handed DUer in this mess.

Even when emotional,you don't stray from making the best response.

[cali]

14. Thank you

That's very kind of you to say. I try to remember that it's a complex situation and not to slip into black hat/white hat thinking.

[burythehatchet]

22. I wish name calling would stop, as well as the shockingly racist

view of Arabs and Palestinians that I've seen expressd.

[cali]

27. Indeed

I've found those sentiments repulsive, and I've called people on it. It needs to stop from both sides.

[dave123williams]

6. "We should not be endangered for Israel's sins."

Nor should they be for ours.

[SupplySideLiberal]

10. I'm very concerned about Lebanese civilians, too but...

the Israelis are trying to cut off the flow of rockets from Syria. Ten years ago the UN resolved that Israel completely withdraw from Lebanon, and that Lebanon remove all militias from the area of the border with Israel. Israel complied in full, Lebanon complied not at all. Now Lebanon has directly attacked Israel and kidnapped soldiers, and is showering rockets on civilian populations. If you are opposed to Israel taking the practical, though, sadly, bloody, steps to defend herself, what do think she should do?

Suppose Canada allowed it's US border to be lined with Al Qaeda camps. After ten years of threats and intermittent attacks, Canadian Al Qaeda members launch rocket attacks on Minneapolis, and, surprisingly, are even able to reach Des Moines. They cross the border and kidnap US soldiers. Iranian rockets are pouring into Canada through the major airports. Would you advise the US to do nothing? Simply request a UN resolution that would be vetoed by Russia and China while the populations of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa huddle in bomb shelters?

[MissWaverly]

19. 50 years of military strategy has not worked

we need to stop thinking if there's only enough missiles and tanks then all is good in the garden, I think the American people would be in favor of putting aid in a pot to be shared and fixing up both Israel, Palestine and neighoring areas, I am sure that it would be cheaper than
more millions for the war game. We could have built a new Jewish State in the middle of the
Atlantic Ocean from nothing that would have cost less than this with more lasting peaceful
results.

[SupplySideLiberal]

24. I agree that the USA's militaristic approach to improving the world

is wrong. In particular, I think the Bush doctrine of implementing US-style representative government around the world at gunpoint is the simplistic fantasy of a religious fundamentalist. Obviously there are huge differences, but there are also some sickening similarities between this philosophy and that of the Islamic radicals.

That said, I think Israel has to defend herself. We were already, before Hamas, pouring tens of millions a year into Palestine, and we're the largest donor to Egypt. Sadly, I think the problem is not money or poverty, but the current fashion in the Arab world for Nazism. If we built an Israel in the sea, I think there would be suicide boats and Iran would be rushing to build missiles with the range to hit it.

[Dover]

12. The Israeli Lobby's Stranglehold on Washington...>

A Beautiful Friendship?
In search of the truth about the Israel lobby's influence on Washington

By Glenn Frankel
Sunday, July 16, 2006; W13



All David Ben-Gurion wanted was 15 minutes of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's time.

Israel's founding father, one of the indomitable political leaders of the 20th century, came to Washington in December 1941 yearning to present the case for a Jewish state directly to the American president. He took a two-room suite at the old Ambassador Hotel at 14th and K for $1,000 a month and cooled his heels for 10 weeks, writing letters and reports and making passes at Miriam Cohen, his attractive American secretary. But Ben-Gurion didn't get the meeting. Not then, not ever. Not even a pair of presidential cuff links.

Now let's fast-forward 64 years to late May and a news conference in the East Room of the White House. That tall, freckled, slightly nervous-looking man with the rust-colored hair standing alongside President Bush at matching lecterns is Ehud Olmert, 12th prime minister of Israel. The two leaders and their advisers have just spent two hours together in the Oval Office. Bush is reaffirming the "deep and abiding ties between Israel and the United States" and praising Olmert's "bold ideas" and commitment to peace. Afterward, they'll adjourn for a private session without aides or note-takers and then go to dinner together. And the next day Olmert will address a joint session of Congress, whose members will interrupt his speech with 16 standing ovations. Ben-Gurion, whose remains rest in a simple grave overlooking the Negev Desert, would be stunned.

It's not that Olmert is a more commanding figure than Ben-Gurion. Far from it. No, it's about power. And not just Israeli power. It's really about the perceived power of the Israel lobby, a collection of American Jewish organizations, campaign contributors and think tanks -- aided by Christian conservatives and other non-Jewish supporters -- that arose over the second half of the 20th century and that sees as a principle goal the support and promotion of the interests of the state of Israel.

Thanks to the work of the lobby and its allies, Israel gets more direct foreign aid -- about $3 billion a year -- than any other nation. There's a file cabinet somewhere in the State Department full of memoranda of understanding on military, diplomatic and economic affairs. Israel gets treated like a NATO member when it comes to military matters and like Canada or Mexico when it comes to free trade. There's an annual calendar full of meetings of joint strategic task forces and other collaborative sessions. And there's a presidential pledge, re-avowed by Bush in the East Room, that the United States will come to Israel's aid in the event of attack.

On Capitol Hill the Israel lobby commands large majorities in both the House and Senate. Polls show strong public support for Israel -- a connection that has grown even deeper after the September 11 attacks. The popular equation goes like this: Israelis equal good guys, Arabs equal terrorists. Working the Hill these days, says Josh Block, spokesman for the premier Israeli lobbying group known as AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, "is like pushing at an open door."

cont'd

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201627_pf.html

[cantstandbush]

15. Then you had better damn well do your homework and vote against

all those in Congress who will lay down the lives of your children for the neocon agenda.

[cobaindrain]

16. and it's driving up our gas prices and about to start WW3

Which we will pay for with our money and the blood of our soldiers

why the hell are our boys puttering around in an Iraqi quagmire while WW3 is about to explode next door. BRING THEM HOME!

[Sherman A1]

18. Agreed

I would cut off all support of any type to the entire area. Get the U.S. Citizens out that want to go and freeze the assets of the Israeli Government. Might also be a nice time to park a Carrier or two or six in the Eastern Med - "Just on a long planned exercise".

[WinkyDink]

20. I KNOW! Jews around the world are beheading people, murdering

Christian missionaries, blowing up passenger trains, slicing women's faces if they wear make-up, stoning female adulterers, hijacking airplanes, destroying religious icons and buildings, encouraging child suicide bombers with tales of virgins later, ....oh, wait.
Never mind!

[jonnyblitz]

23. another stupid post.

where do you people come from? I hate americans too, I suppose, because i criticize our government's handling of Iraq.

Did it EVER fucking occur to you that JEWS are some of the biggest critics of Israel?? Probably not.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

25. Can't we condemn both radical Zionism and radical Islam?

I do. I'm for moderation and secularism. I long for the time when race, ethnicity, and religion will be less important than our shared interests such as our membership in the exploited working class.

[JackNewtown]

35. Who here supports radical Islam?

The most anti-progressive thing on Earth is radical Islam.

[chookie]

21. Where I draw the line

Agreed -- enough is enough. 60 years of generous financial and strategic support from the US -- and the region is more unstable than ever. I think it's time to consider the notion that Israel is a failed state.

The game changed when Bush broke with the traditional "honest broker" policy, and advocated that Israel should be allowed to prevail. What has this achieved, but more chaos and instability?

Our support of Israel is undermining life in America, and we are more insecure and unsafe than ever. 3 billion a year to feed an insatiable war machine, and yet we don't have the funds or ability to rebuild the Gulf coast? America, and Americans FIRST!

We stand at the threshold of a terrible regional, perhaps, world war. We are but one provocative event from getting pulled into it, when American blood will be spent in quantities not seen in over 60 years. The horror of it would dwarf anything Americans have lived through thus far.

Where I draw the line -- I will not condone the shedding of American blood for Israel.

[MissWaverly]

26. I think we should stay out

I think this is a matter for the UN to handle

[w4rma]

29. I believe that Bolten vetoed action by the UN. (nt)

[bobby911]

30. to the OP

I'll agree we need to cut off Isreal at the same time that you agree we need to cut off EVERYONE ELSE in the area too including Palestine

[w4rma]

31. That would be more than fine with me. (nt)

[bobby911]

32. so you agree

no more money to the Palestinian authority...no more food...nothing.No aid...no help in ANY way.

In exchange we cut off Israel.

Hell..I could live with that.

The ENTIRE WORLD cut off ALL AID to the entire region.

Make them all sit down and think for once instead of blowing each other up.

We are the reason Israel can fight...cut em off.

At the same time...we blockade the rest of the region to make sure no one else gets aid.

Make em all starve till they sit down and act like adults.

[Scurrilous]

33. I think we've already stopped aid to Palestine. n/t

Google Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006.

[Lithos]

36. Locking per I/P guidelines

New threads must be based on a recently-published news item or op-ed piece. They may not be based on editorial cartoons or photographs. Citations and references should include a link to the original source. Exceptions will be allowed if, based on prior approval, the moderators feel a thread is appropriate.

Lithos
DU Moderator