Palestine. Israel. Iraq terrorist techniques. Election season in the USA

[applegrove]

American neocons are running a slow war in Iraq. That is teaching terrorists all sorts of new tricks. Which are then copied by terrorists in Afghanistan and now in Palestine. That is my point. Why the slow war? Bumbling terrorists with only one trick up their sleeves now are more organized, have more supporters, more tricks, and have been to "how to fight a big army" school.

Now it spills into Palestine. The kidnappings. No doubt Israel wants to put "lights out" on the idea of "kidnappings". A few months ago.. given the choice.. Israelis went for peace and isolation and giving up some of the territories. All of a sudden, A MORE PROFESSIONAL AND BATTLE SCHOOLED BUNCH OF TERRORIST TECHNIQUES are in use in the occupied territories. Who could have projected that?

Um.. yes.. why for the last few months people have been noticing now Afghanistan Taliban-nuts are fighting using the methods terrorists and insurgents learnt in Iraq.

So it is predictable..that it would spread.

If you want me to start screaming about Israel.. they would have to do alot more than arresting top leaders and running them by the Attorney General who said "no" to administrative detention without criminal charges.

Sorry.

This election year once again is wedge hand another group over to Karl time. That was not a spontaneous kiss Bush gave to GI Lieberman. They made him make Sophie's Choices on the middle east.. quelle surprise.. and he went with who he is quelle surprise. Even David Frum was salivating a few weeks ago in the National Post about how Lieberman was going down. Now why would neocons be happy with that? Why would they be happy that a supporter of theirs was going down?

I'm saying.. if you cut aid to the Palestinians.. then dam well pressure the Saudis and Iranians to step up. Involve them in building a neighbourhood.. make them put up their "hard earned" cash in a continual motion in Palestine.. and perhaps .. the fight over what terrorist group to fund can take place between two rich assholes in Saudi Arabia who will have to bomb their own dam work.

How come nobody is pressuring them publically to step in and start giving aid to Palestine. So they can "really be involved" in the situation there? Have we heard talk of that while the Palestinian authority lost everything but emergency aid? No. Bupkiss. If you really wanted peace in Palestine.. that is what you would do. You wouldn't just take Canadian, European, American long term aid away and not replace it with anything.



It is election year. I see now we are to be mad at Israel for the next few months.

:sarcasm: Who could have predicted that!!!:sarcasm:

[Tom Joad]

1. If i knew what you were saying, i would probably disagree.

Whatever.

[uppityperson]

2. Repub anipulators are manipulating everything to keep repubs in power

in the vote in nov.

[Tom Joad]

3. They did the rains in the NorthEast too, i presume.

[applegrove]

4. You don't think Rove has his sights set on the portion of democratic

voter who have family and friends in Israel? Wow! Cause he's been given credit for wedging churches, religious blacks, religious latinos and white women away from the Dems. Nice of him to stop there.

[applegrove]

5. You don't think the "War President" manipulates conflict or encourages

it to happen for political purposes - in a timely fashion?

Why no attempt to bring the Middle Eastern wealthy into supporting the Palestinian government. It would accomplish many things at one time.

[applegrove]

14. I'm right on the facts. You must admit that. Even if I cannot be sure

how to put them together.

[Ian David]

6. They said they never anticipated Hamas winning in Palestine

Just like they never anticipated Global Warming, The Breaching of The Levees, or planes being used as weapons.

Now, when we launch a disastrous attack on Iran, and the Israel-Palestine peace efforts fall apart, the Neocons and their talking heads on Fox will blame all of it on Israel and then eventually on the Jews.

The Reichstag fire started burning on 9-11, and Krystalnacht is coming soon.

[Tom Joad]

7. Nominated for craziest thread ever.

[applegrove]

8. Please. Lots of people have talked about neocons wanting a great

big war to break out all over the middle east. The dream of moving Palestine to the north east, like Poland was moved, and Syrian and Iraq cut up and gerrymandered, etc. That's out there as the neocons most secret desire. Read Assassin's Gate: the author put that out there.. as the understood secret desire of neocons that dare not speak its name. Nobody called him crazy!

I don't go that far.

I just said that it is election season. And we assume the neocons always want the peace. And that they would have wanted someone other than Hamas to win cause peace would be harder with Hamas.

Why do we assume that neocons always want peace? We assume Presidents want peace. Cause they run around trying to broker peace. But why should we assume this particular WH wants peace more than it wants war? Have we any evidence of that? Have you any evidence that they prefer peace over war?

I see you can now get through my op and understand it enough to call me nuts.

But please. Do answer the question.. I'm just putting this out there.. Would this GOP, who wedged religeon from Dems, White Women from Dems, Religious Latinos from Dems, a small percentage of devout african americans from Dems... would they stop there? Why would they? No plan for the big part of the Dem vote that is traditionally jewish? Bupkiss? No thoughts? "Oh Karl wouldn't!"?

Just answer me that!

[Violet_Crumble]

11. I'll second that one...

n/t

[applegrove]

13. How come nobody will answer my points. Here they are:

1. Rove has wedged as many parts of the Democratic base as possible. Why would he stop at wedging the good portion of Democratic base who vote with Israel's security deeply on their minds & in their hearts.

2. Until Iraq, kidnappings were not used to terrorize in a systematic and horrifying manner. Now that terrorist practice, that particular kind of kidnapping.. with imminent execution demanding nothing but that the public wait and watch and fear and feel terrorized ... is new. Comes out of this Iraq conflict.

3. Israel is facing a this new terrorist tactic and will react with overwhelming force like it always does.

4. The consolidation and expansion of al Qaeda tactics in reaction to the invasion of Iraq (not Afghanistan) is more MCDemocracy vs. Jihad. By fighting a big war..in the middle east.. the USA is forcing the Jihadist to morph into a more sophisticated army with cross boundary ties in the middle east. Just like the Brits, Americans, Canadian, Australians & Europeans got their act together after 4 years of war with the Nazis.. so too has al Qaeda. So instead of picking off terrorist cells and trying to create peace faction by faction in country by country, the USA can have one big war with one enemy. And enemy who can be defeated at some point in the future. And Saudi Princes and Iranians will have to choose one side or the other. Democracy or Jihad. In the meantime.. Darfur goes on, and has now morphed into al Qaeda backing the Sudan government and the genocide, while Syrian, Sunnis in Iraq, Saudi Princes and people everywhere will have to pick one side or the other. Black or White. Meanwhile.. war breaks out everywhere. And the terrorists learn and share and become one. So they can be defeated as one finally. And the "enlightenment" can win in the Middle East. At some point well into the future.

One democracy at a time, winning the Iraq war quickly, stopping genocide in Darfur, peace in Israel, was just not good enough for this lot in the WH. There had to be a greater meaning. Fuck the people on the ground. Fuck the people being kidnapped. Fuck the soldiers in numbers so few to be ignored by terrorists.

Jihadists want war? They are going to get war.

[applegrove]

9. I think they had a few vague references to planes being used. But

9/11 really hit the USA by surprise. Too busy planning how to get into Iraq to do the "metrics" on all the intel on al Qaeda. Bush focus was off bin Laden and onto grand dreams.

What is predictable is that if you cut off long term aid.. and didn't replace it with anything.. the terrorists would get desperate. And their aid isn't getting cut off. So they just got creative. And got the peace process off the rollers. But that is so predictable. I don't understand why Saudis and Iranians were not shoved a whole shitload of responsibilities. All the countries that fund the terrorist in Palestine should have been handed over the burden. If you exclude them from the peace process... or from the burden.. then things will just keep bouncing along with terrorists calling the shots. And baiting. And Israel can be counted on to react with overwhelming force.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Why do you keep on repeating the same nonsense?

You've been told several times now that capturing enemy combatants has been a long-standing thing, despite yr claims that only 'freaks in the Middle East' do it, yet you continue to portray the capture of an Israeli soldier as an act of terrorism....

[applegrove]

12. Kidnapping and murdering civilians and soldiers or perceived "enablers"

is a new form of terrorism. Why Nicholas Berg was such a shock.

Kidnappings in the past were long term affairs. People got released years later. Today it is used as a new tool of terror. That happened in Iraq. The terrorist toolbag now includes suicide bombings (what a decade old), IEDs at checkpoints, and kidnappings.

Denying Kidnappings in this form are a new tool of terrorists that has been passed on from Iraq to Palestine.. denies the experience of Israelis this week.. that they are facing a serious new threat that they must throw the book at.

Whether you agree or disagree about Israel throwing the book at people... you have to admit it is predictable. And that kidnappings are a new tool for terrorists. The threat of execution is what is used to horrify and wound the intended terrorist target... in this case.. Israelis. So they will attack Hamas. So that Hamas will look for more revenge. So that peace will not happen. It is meant to stop whatever process was in play. To work around the wall.

I'm sorry you have not noticed.

[undergroundrailroad]

15. Locking per I/P Guidelines

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