Palestinian sources: Civilian, 60, killed in IDF shelling of Gaza

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Israel Defense Forces artillery shelled the northern Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing a farmer, 60, Palestinian medical officials said.

Two farmers whose tractor was hit were wounded, the officials said. A Palestinian security officer manning a roadblock in the area also was wounded."


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Days of thunder

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"Boom after boom, shell after shell, thunder after thunder. The windows of the houses shake, the walls that were cracked during the previous shelling are already threatening to collapse from the blast, the children scream in fear or walk around shocked and silent in the shelled house. One shell after another, every few minutes another one. Sometimes there is a vague and distant noise, and sometimes there is a thundering and very nearby BOOM!!!! The skies tremble, the end of the world. Boom after boom, a shell every five minutes. It is impossible to know where the last one landed, much less where the next one will land. Yesterday afternoon a shell landed on the heads of these children and adults, whose home we are now visiting. Boom after boom, even now, terrible fear.

The fear begins at the Erez crossing, the sounds of war. Afterward, when you cross the deserted checkpoint and travel a little to the south, the noise gradually becomes closer. The never-ending noise. At a certain point one begins to get used to it, just as one gets used to a thunderstorm. But these thousands of shells, which are aimed at "open areas," not only sow great and terrible fear in the hearts of tens of thousands of residents, including many children, but they also occasionally hit homes, and then they kill and injure. We don't hear about it much. On Sunday, Israel was totally preoccupied with the festivities of the Final Four basketball championships, but while our American basketball players were aiming at the basket, our artillery was aiming at Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahiya in the Gaza Strip. On the basketball court in Prague there were victors and losers, but not here, in the sandy alleyways. Here there are only losers.

Does anyone among our excellent artillery forces think about the great fear they are causing to the children upon whose homes they are launching their shells? Have they been shown pictures of the destruction they sowed, whether deliberately or not? No Qassam rocket justifies this terrible, disproportionate bombing, thousands of shells in a densely populated area, on its fields and occasionally on its homes; the echoes of this shelling did not reach Israel and did not interest anyone here. Last week we went to bombarded Beit Lahiya, in the row of houses that was shelled there, two dead and several wounded, this week in bombarded Beit Hanoun, three children wounded and dozens suffering from shock."

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[ShalachEtAmi]

1. Hamas must act quickly to stop the killing of these civilians..

They must act to stop these Kassam attacks immediately in order to protect their people ,who made them their government.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Israel has to act to stop the killing of Palestinian civilians as well...

Israel has after all been responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians for far longer than Qassams have been fired at Israel. Using yr logic, Israel must act quickly to end the occupation of the West Bank and withdraw to the Green Line in order to protect their people. Or does that 'logic' only apply when it comes to the Palestinians?

Violet...

[pelsar]

4. the "Magic Green line"

withdraw to the Green Line
--------

i've always noticed that when talking to one who is religious when ever i ask a question of "what if"...the response is usually something to the effect of "it cant be, impossible, etc.

so too with the "green line religion" just like hamas or the religious settlers, the "green line religion" has its own god, which states that once israel is at the greenline..."peace will prevail"..ask what shall israel do if the kassams and mortors keep coming?....

no response, as its simply "cant be" impossible to accept....just like any religion, no difference

[Violet_Crumble]

5. There's nothing magic about it, pelsar...

It's the armistice line, and anything beyond it isn't part of Israel, but territory that is occupied by Israel. Pretending otherwise is to put one's head in the sand. Regardless of whether or not attacks would continue after any withdrawal, that territory is occupied and Israel does not have the right to retain it indefinately and to move its citizens into the occupied territory in order to try to change the demographics of the territory...

Violet...

[pelsar]

6. its a religion all right....

because the "true believers" cant see beyond the "withdrawl"...cant accept a new reality...cant accept the fact that such a withdrawl may infact cause an additional war...but all of that is totally irrelevant to the "true believer"...

just like any religious fanatic, consequences of an action based on the faith has no relevance.


such is the "green line religion"...


even if one believed arafat,...hamas is now in charge yet, for the "true believer" such a change has no relevance, thats how it is with "true believers:"

having kassams and mortors fall on hadera and afula and jersualem will in fact cause another war...but that is irrelevant to the green line religious believer, in fact it cant even be considered, and if it is , its irrelevant.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. No, it ain't....

I just explained to you why the Green Line can't and shouldn't be ignored. Care to address anything I said in my post rather than just repeating the exact same thing that I've already addressed?

Violet...

[pelsar]

8. sure i can.....

its not a matter of ignoring the green line...its a matter of the consequences. True believers dont believe in "consequences".

you are doing precisly that...if you arent such a 'true believer" and then perhaps take the next step, what happens if the "magic green line" turns out to be a nightmare (for israelis)

mortors and kassams falling all over israel?..then what? (for those who arent true believers, it can be argued that, that is precisly what hamas is planning)

I understand very well what the green line represents: a ceasefire line...of a previous war....where there never was peace. It may be that some palestenians have now accepted that as the defacto future border, europeans seem to have, but its debatable if the present palestenain govt agrees to that, in fact, it appears that they dont, but i understand such a change has no affect on the true believer.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. What? Address what I said? Doesn't look like it...

I've got no idea why yr calling me a 'true believer'. Is that someone who doesn't just care about what happens to Israelis, but cares as much about what happens to Palestinians?

Violet...

[pelsar]

10. a true believer...

is one who believes in something...and cannot possible look at other possibilities or possible consequences.

you believe that israel pulling back to the 67 line is all that is needed.

the consequences of such an action may or may not lead to war....you dont seem to be able to comprehend the second scenario. That is how it is with true believers, something which doesn't "fit" is simply not accepted.


israel pulls back as in gaza and in n. israel and the kassams and snipers and mortors continue...can you even envision such a scenario? A true believe cant.

if you can, then the obvious next question is what would be israels "legal" response"...militarily as the firings will be coming out of civilian areas, as they do from gaza today. Or is that too something that cant be comprehended (again a typical true believer response)

[Violet_Crumble]

11. You'd best stop calling me that...

I've never once said that pulling back to the 67 line is all that's needed, pelsar...

But let's look at the opposite side of this 'true believer' thing, shall we? A true believer is also someone who will not deviate, no matter how much the facts say otherwise, from believing that Israel has some magical right to retain territory it illegally obtained in 67. They cling to their 'Israel is a tiny little underdog amidst a sea of Arabs who hate Israel just coz they're Antisemitc' line as though their whole reason for being would shrivel up if they looked at anything but their own narrow and rather deluded stories...

To be honest with you, pelsar, I'm not interested in answering yr repeated questions that always go on and on about Israelis and never worry about what happens to the Palestinians. Sorry...

Violet...

[pelsar]

12. perhaps i've mistaken...(probably happens...)

so explain...as i've never seen you write anything beyond the "67 magic border"....and then there will be peace......


as far as my being a 'true believer"... i dont see it. I see israel as a potential victim as well as a regional power...depending upon which environment we're talking about....The arabs?...many do have anti semetism running through their culture..why else would hitlers mein kamph being such a seller there?, why else would egypt make and show the "protocols of zion" or irans "eyes of zarah"...something is wrong with countries/govt that do that....

my repeated questions are because with all the rant and raving here, few actual dare to try to offer real solutions. Its one thing to "claim" one side is "righter" thats easy. Its far more difficult to offer a solution that takes into account what the other side is concerned about.

At times you've tried to answer (after much prodding from me...) others seem to avoid any kind of solution that might take into account what israelis worry about. (in fact its usually ignored as if were dont even deserve a minimum of consideration)

those that dont answer, cant answer, strike me as being fanatics, single dimensional figures with little to offer. Just their mantra of their belief, that of the "true believer"....they sound like any religious fanatic

my concern for the palestenains is actually far more realistic than the "true believer"...it involves insuring a stable govt and (yes i can say it) some cultural changes that involve their suicide bombers and gun culture). Going back to the 67 border without a stable strong central govt will do nothing more then provide the fertile ground for the next war.

the "true believer" cant/wont see that since its doesnt fit the belief.

if your not one of these.....how do you see it? israel just pulls back, then what?....as the whistle of the mortor is heard flying through the air to afulas apt buildings

[Violet_Crumble]

13. Yr mistaken...

And like I've already said, I'm not explaining something that I've already explained in the past and can be found in the archives. End of story...

Violet...

[Poppyseedman]

2. The rest of the story

DF had said earlier that it was firing artillery on areas where Palestinian militants fire rockets toward Israel. In leaflets the army dropped on the area, Palestinian residents were warned to avoid the areas.

"We warn you not to get close to the areas where rockets are launched in order to keep yourselves and your families safe," the leaflet said.

Palestinian officials said the dead men were training at a base used by the Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group responsible for numerous rocket attacks against Israel.

The Israel Defense Forces confirmed it had targeted the Popular Resistance Committees, saying that militants were training for attacks against Israel. "The IDF will continue to track down those who support and are involved in terror attacks," it said.

The Popular Resistance Committees has claimed responsibility for many of the Qassam rockets fired at Israel. In the past, the group also has blown up IDF tanks and is widely believed to be behind the deadly bombing of a U.S. diplomatic convoy in the Gaza Strip in October 2003.

This can stop easily. First stop sending Qassam rockets into Israel. IDF will stop shelling them back.