Court acquits 'Hilltop youth' leader accused of assault

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Avri Ran, who is thought to be the leader of the 'hilltop youth' settlers, was acquitted on Monday of charges of attacking Palestinians and of causing serious damage, despite the fact that he confessed to the crimes.

The Kfar Sava Magistrates' Court ruled that the Palestinians' testimony in the case was exaggerated and was unreliable.

The court also acquitted the two others accused of the attack on the Palestinians: Issachar Mendel and and Elad Ziv. A fourth suspect, Victor Lediznesky, confessed and was convicted earlier as part of a plea bargain."

<snip>

"The judge in the case harshly criticized the Palestinian plaintiffs, and ruled that their version of the events contradicted each other. She said they didn't make a credible impression, and "exaggerated the events and the details of the damage."

As for Ran, who "conveyed his arrogance and his feeling of authority toward the plaintiffs and the Arab residents of the area, his testimony created a more trustworthy and coherent impression."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/671050.html

[Tom Joad]

1. I'm shocked. Shocked! Palestinians not getting justice in Israeli courts

:sarcasm:

Perhaps my sarcasm is out of place at such a serious miscarriage of justice. This is lawlessness endorsed by the courts. However, this is so routine (ok, it did get to the court, so that is a bit out of the ordinary). It certainly seems, that the “the Palestinian has no rights that the Jewish State is bound to respect”.

For an interesting challenge, those who believe otherwise... could you cite any case where a Palestinian has been murdered by a Jewish resident of Israel and was not only tried and convicted, but also is serving a serious prison sentence?

I have never heard of one (when there is killing involved, the charge is usually "illegal use of a weapon", and the sentence is no more than a year or two at most). I may be wrong, perhaps there is some justice, would be happy to hear it.

[eyl]

2. A few off the top of my head

Asher Wiesgan (the guy who killed four Palestinians during the disengagement) was indicted for four counts of murder (trial is still ongoing, AFAIK)

Ami Popper - currently serving a 40-year sentance (after commutation)

There were some others, but you asked for one and I'm short of time

[Djinn]

4. an ongoing trial doesn't really

discount the claim made above, yes some Israelis have been convicted of crimes against Palestinians but isolated incidences do not prove that Israeli justice is blind, claiming it does would be like claiming that because Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell exist that there is no racism in the US.

And Ami Popper is a REALLY bad example,

you a have to take into account the conditions he faces whilst in jail (being allowed day release for example) which contrasts rather sharply with that of many Palestinian prisoners (including thousands held WITHOUT charge) and also the permission of authorities to marry (and have conjugal visits with) a vile Kach cow

[eyl]

5. Part of his claim was that

Israelis weren't charged with murder for killing Palestinians.

Popper demonstrates that they don't get just "a year or two".

As far as his conditions are concerned, I'll be among the first to agree that Israeli prison conditions for violent criminals tend to the overly lenient (both in sentencing and especially when it comes to furloughs). This is a problem throughout the system, not just in crimes against Palestinians. Comparing his conditions against Palestinians' also isn't completely apt, since they're subject to a different justice system (and before you cry "discrimination", bear in mind that the non-use of the Israeli justice system on the Palestinians is a requirement of international law; among other things, imposing it could be seen as annexation)

[Tom Joad]

6. Popper killed 7 Palestinians in cold blood. He lives a good life.

Completely government subsidized.
Ami Popper, who has the blood of seven Arab laborers on his hands: his life sentence was reduced to 40 years, he was permitted to marry, have conjugal visits, bring five children into the world, visit them, go on furlough and phone home daily. You think he cheated a bit on his taxes, not killed seven people.

How many children Asher Wiesgan will have, and the nature of his furloughs,remains to be seen.

Thanks for bringing up these examples. Of course, it does not enlighten us as to why Hebron settlers have been allowed to kill, to brutalize Palestinians for decades.

Punishment depends on nationality by Amira Hass
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/nueva_web/articles/features/punishment_depends_on_nationality.htm

Shortly after the murders in Shfaram (by Asher Wiesgan), it was reported that those wounded and the families of the murder victims would receive recognition as victims of terrorism, dealt with and compensated accordingly. And the question immediately arose, since when do you highlight as a news item something that is self-explanatory and common sense? Except that equality among Jews and Arabs in Israel is not something self-explanatory. Therefore the news item, which should never have been a news item, was appropriate.

The news item - and the atmosphere of disgust which led to it - can challenge bureaucrats in the ministries of finance and health and the National Insurance Institute, who operate according to customs and laws that discriminate against Arab citizens.

A news item like this affords an opportunity to examine other layers of inequality among Jews and Arabs, which undermine the definition of the State of Israel as a democracy. One such "obvious" layer of inequality is the attitude of the judicial and prison system toward Arab Israeli defendants and inmates being held on security grounds, and the discrimination made between them and Jewish defendants and inmates.

Security prisoners who are Israeli Arabs are subject to discrimination, on three levels, compared with Israeli Jews who have harmed Arabs: In the severity of the punishment meted out by Israeli judges; in their chances for early parole (as a result of amnesty or time off for good behavior after serving two thirds of their sentence); and their conditions of incarceration.
more http://www.palestinemonitor.org/nueva_web/articles/features/punishment_depends_on_nationality.htm

[eyl]

7. You get 40 years

for cheating on your taxes? Wow, I think I really don't want to live wherever you are. As for "living a good, subsidized life" - I've heard the same characterizations of prisoners in general - usually made by those in favor of capital punishment. Do you consider yourself a prponent of the death penalty?

Shortly after the murders in Shfaram (by Asher Wiesgan), it was reported that those wounded and the families of the murder victims would receive recognition as victims of terrorism, dealt with and compensated accordingly. And the question immediately arose, since when do you highlight as a news item something that is self-explanatory and common sense? Except that equality among Jews and Arabs in Israel is not something self-explanatory. Therefore the news item, which should never have been a news item, was appropriate.

The news item - and the atmosphere of disgust which led to it - can challenge bureaucrats in the ministries of finance and health and the National Insurance Institute, who operate according to customs and laws that discriminate against Arab citizens.

1) The murders in Shfaram were comitted by Eden Natan Zada, not Wiesgan.

2) The compensation was highlighted because it brought to light an issue which hadn't occured before - that under the law governing compensation for injuries due to hostile acts, "hostile acts" were defined as actions by "enemies of Israel", which included members of (or people acting on behalf of) Palestinian terrorist organizations but not Jewish terrorist organizations, for what should be fairly obvious reasons. Therefore, under the letter of the law (which has been changed since) the victims were not eligible for compensation - hence, it was news.

3) As for the rest of the article - I agree that it's a problem* that Jews receive lighter sentences than Arabs. As I've noted above, light sentences are an endemic problem in the Israeli justice system. She also forgot to mention the President in her "chain of responsibility" (many of the commutations of sentences of Jewish murderers took place under President Weizman)**.

*This is assuming the overall statistics regarding punishments are as she describes. I don't contest the specific examples she presents, but what matters are the overall stats regarding punishments, as well as other details. For example, she compares the conditions between Popper and several other prisoners; but she does not state in which prison these various prisoners are located, which matters, since AFAIK prison conditions are partially a matter of the policy of a specific prison. Furthermore, it's not just Jews who receive light sentences - for example, the Arab youths who, during the OCtober 2000 riots, killed an Jewish motorist by stoning his car received sentences of half a year community service (either that or half a year suspended sentence, I son't remember exactly)

**Ironically enough, the argument Hass makes is pretty much the same as one I've made - here and elsewhere - against the UN's treatment of Israel - that treating one group more harshly for the same (or lesser) crimes than another is a sign of discrimination. But on those occasions I've been assured that so long as the party is guilty of what he's accused of, what punishment others receive is irrelevent, and not a sign of bias.

[Djinn]

3. agree in general

but I wouldn't use this case as a shinning example of the bigotry of Israeli justice, from the looks of it the accused claimed he did assault the Palestinians he did so in some kind of self defence, if, as is claimed, the evidence given by the Palestinians was not clear or was contradictory, then the "beyond reasonable doubt" thing kicks in, probably wouldn't have been convicted where I live either.

that said, you'd think hed get something for escaping custody and causing the need for a manhunt.