Olmert: No limitations in Sharon's war on Qassams

[Englander]

By Amos Harel , Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Service and Agencies

Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, dismissing contentions that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's hands were tied in fighting Qassam rocket shelling from the Gaza Strip, said Thursday that there were no limits to Sharon's freedom of action, and that the disengagement had increased the military's flexibility of response.

The Israel Defense Forces shelled six Qassam rocket launch sites in the northern Gaza Srip before dawn Thursday morning, hours after senior military sources told Haaretz that despite the beefed-up Israeli response, the Qassam rocket fire is unlikely to stop.

General Staff sources conceded that even if the rocket-launch cells are pushed back beyond the buffer zone, they will still be able to hit at Israeli territory, although not as far north as Ashkelon, as they did when firing the Qassams from the ruins of the settlements.

>snip

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas condemned the move, saying it was tantamount to re-occupying land Israel gave up in September when troops quit Gaza after 38 years of military occupation. "Israel has left the Gaza Strip and has no right to come back," Abbas told reporters in Gaza. "They should not make any pretext."

More at;
Haaretz

[bemildred]

1. Sounds almost Bush-like:

"there were no limits to Sharon's freedom of action"

I suppose we can infer from this that Jabba is catching political heat for the Qassams and the withdrawal and all. Little as I care for Jabba, I have to say that is unfair, not realistic, and dumb. It's like berating Raygun for getting out of Lebanon, when the dumb thing was going into Lebanon in the first place.

Gaza being the size it is, there is no realistic way to stop people from shooting these homemade rockets at Israel if they are sufficiently motivated, short of genocide, and that has its own drawbacks. Even then, you are hoping they don't get their hands on better technology, and that has to drive the IDF nuts, worrying about that.

I certainly hope the artillery officers are careful not to desecrate any of the abandoned buildings in the abandoned settlements with artillery shells when they retaliate for the Qassams fired from there.

[Wordie]

3. ""no limits to Sharon's freedom of action" Yes, the arrogance of power

shows in both. Of course, it's also probably more of the puffing oneself up stuff we discussed yesterday.

[pelsar]

4. your turn....

and what perhaps would your solution to the kassams be?....since 'abbas has now declared its israels problem.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/661888.html

abbas even said that the Qassam rockets being fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel are "Israel's problem" and that he does not intend to interfere. "Let the Israelis deal with it," he said

something that can actually be implemented that you would agree to.......

[Wordie]

5. Mofaz: Significant drop in terror from Gaza since disengagement

Mofaz: Significant drop in terror from Gaza since disengagement
By Gideon Alon and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz on Friday said the number of casualties in terror attacks that originated from the Gaza Strip dropped significantly since the disengagement, and while 61 suicide bombings emerged from Gaza in 2002, year 2005 saw only 5 such attacks.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/664108.html

So there is more success than failure from the Gaza pullout. Even though there do remain the Qassams, overall the situation has improved. Israel should therefore consider the Gaza pullout a success, rather than a failure as you seem to be telling us, pelsar.

I happen to think that if disengagement from the West Bank and East Jerusalem occured, along with a return to '67 borders, the moderates hand would be so strengthened with the general Palestinian public, that the number of Qassam attacks would be reduced dramatically. Evidence of genuine movement in this direction might also work. I must admit though, that Israel may have played the "no partner" game for too long, thus strengthening the hand, instead, of the more violent elements. The longer the peace process is halted, and the settlement building goes on, the more the claims of the more violent groups are going to resonate with an oppressed people.

Want to counter the rise of Hamas and reduce the Qassams? Give Abbas some real, tangible evidence of the above actions.

[pelsar]

6. israel should "strengthen abbas"..

is that what your saying?

first of all...what about gaza...the kassams that are flying over....should israel just "sit tight and let them fly and terrorize the population?

thats the first question you failed to answer....try it

__________________________________________________________
second: why would israel even try to help abbas when his attitude toward missles flying from his socieity into israel is: "your problem not mine"...which means if they get east jerusalem, israel can obviously expect kassams on the knesset (check into other examples of israeli withdrawl: lebanon, gaza)

third: why would israel interfer in palestenian politics?

fourth: i was and am for the gaza pullout for several reasons, one of them being, so that that palestenians can learn how to govern before they get to our doorstep and have our knesset and airport within range of various internal subgroups that a failed society cannot control, because retaking that territory will result in the loss of thousands of lives....

in the meantime...your suggestion for the incoming kassams that are terrorizing israelis today and tomorrow?........

[Englander]

2. Operation Blue Skies still under way in Gaza Strip

By Amos Harel

The Israel Defense Forces continued its "Blue Skies" operation in the Gaza Strip yesterday, preventing Palestinians for the second consecutive day from entering a buffer zone in the northern Gaza Strip near the ruins of former settlements Elei Sinai, Nissanit and Dugit.

The army is enforcing the zone using hourly artillery fire into open areas in the buffer zone. Some of the Palestinian security personnel deployed in the area - protecting several dozen Palestinians who still live on the outskirts of the zone - have moved south, and are preventing Palestinians from entering the buffer zone.

Israel carried out an air strike yesterday morning on six roads it calls access roads for cells firing Qassam rockets south of Ashkelon. IAF planes also fired warning shots several times yesterday at Palestinians trying to enter the zone. No injuries were reported.

The IDF is monitoring from the air and from ground lookout points territory further south than the buffer zone, from which Qassams are launched in the direction of Sderot.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/664123.html

[Scurrilous]

7. Israel creates a wasteland in Gaza, and calls it peace

<snip>

"It is not enough to merely highlight the events taking place in the recently liberated Palestinian territory of Gaza. The dangers require more efforts to prevent the worse consequences of Israeli actions.

Gaza was freed of its illegal settlers and military installations only four months ago on August 15. Sadly,
however, since the eviction of settlers and army installations, the situation in the territory has not improved, nor does it seem to be heading in the right direction. Following an incident where Qassam rockets were fired into southern Israel, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, along with his Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, proposed a plan to establish an Israeli controlled buffer zone that Palestinians would be barred from entering. Since the Qassam incident, which injured nobody, the Israeli army has launched multiple air assaults, in an effort to clear this buffer zone.

According to Israeli ministerial sources, "the defense minister has ordered the army to apply from Monday evening a decision taken last Thursday, setting up a limitation on Palestinians circulating in the northern Gaza Strip." This potentially means (and Israel has set many precedents) that any Palestinian straying into a no-man's zone, the extent of which will be determined by Israel, could be shot by troops from across the border.

So what does this most recent and disturbing development mean? First, it is yet another piece of evidence, for those who don't already know it, that Gaza is still not free. More detrimentally, the territory remains at the mercy of the Israeli Army at any time. Secondly, the creation of the buffer zone, if anything, represents the de facto illegal reoccupation of an area that was "freed" only months ago, after an occupation that lasted 39 years. Thirdly, the buffer zone is no more than an embodiment of Israel's official policy toward the Palestinians. Basically, this policy implies that if Israeli-dictated agreements do not suit the Palestinians, then Israel will force such agreements upon them through the disproportionate use of military force, whether through some form of occupation or the use of collective punishment to force Palestinians to comply with Israeli terms."

more

[pelsar]

8. gotta love the logic....

palestenains shoot missles at israel from gaza everyday...., abbas has declared its not his problem......

and israel is guilty for attempting to stop them?

in the meantime back at the DU, no one has offered a solution, that is acceptable, to stop the kassams...lots of criticism of what not to do...but not a single suggetion of what to do...outside of letting the kassam land and kill israelis....

[Englander]

9. Creation of "Death Zone" in northern Gaza Strip is illegal

B'Tselem

29 Dec. 05: Creation of "Death Zone" in northern Gaza Strip is illegal

In response to the Qassam rockets fired from the northern Gaza Strip at Israeli communities and army bases in Israel , the army announced it was beginning Operation Blue Skies. As part of the operation, the army called on Palestinians living or present in the area to leave by 6:00 P.M. Wednesday . According to media reports, the army intends to open fire at any person who enters the area, regardless of the person's identity or reason for being there.

An order to open fire at any person present in a particular area in the northern Gaza Strip, would constitute a flagrant breach of International Humanitarian Law. A fundamental pillar of IHL is the requirement to distinguish between civilians and combatants. Only combatants and military objects may be attacked, and care must be taken to prevent, as much as possible, injury to civilians. If it is unclear whether a particular person is a civilian or a combatant, the individual is to be considered a civilian. Also, pursuant to the principle of proportionality, it is forbidden to mount attacks against legitimate objects if the potential damage to the civilian population is disproportionate in comparison to the benefit anticipated from the attack.

Furthermore, attacks directed at civilians, and attacks that are carried out with the knowledge they will cause disproportionate injury to the civilian population, are defined as war crimes. Under international law, in addition to the state's criminal responsibility, persons involved in carrying out such acts are personally responsible for the crimes committed.

The Qassam rocket fire at Israeli communities and civilian installations is the kind of attack that is a war crime. However, breach of the laws of war by one side does not permit the adversary to carry out prohibited acts.

The State of Israel has the duty to take all legitimate means to protect its citizens. However, indiscriminate gunfire at every person who enters a particular area is patently illegal, and can lead to the commission of war crimes. B'Tselem urges the prime minister and the minister of defense to immediately direct that the said order be cancelled, if indeed it was given, and that requisite measures be taken to ensure that Palestinian civilians are not injured in the course of the army's response to the missile attacks.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/20051228_Blue_Sky_Operation.asp

[pelsar]

10. the death zone is just fine...

"A fundamental pillar of IHL is the requirement to distinguish between civilians and combatants. Only combatants and military objects may be attacked, and care must be taken to prevent, as much as possible, injury to civilians. If it is unclear whether a particular person is a civilian or a combatant, the individual is to be considered a civilian. Also, pursuant to the principle of proportionality, it is forbidden to mount attacks against legitimate objects if the potential damage to the civilian population is disproportionate in comparison to the benefit anticipated from the attack."
___________________________________________________
northern gaza has no civilian buildings or settlements.....and since the population has been warned its reasonable to assume the combatants hiding behind civilian clothes are probably missle firing jihadnikim.

as they appeared on the news yesterday claiming they will continue firing at all oppertunites

so in that case i can assume that all of us here at the DU wish the IDF good luck in stopping those terrorizing missles being fired across the borders into israel

and did i forget to ask for suggestions if artillary isnt acceptable?...still waiting

[Englander]

11. ~~sigh~~

From - 'IDF girds for terror, warns it may cut power to Gaza'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=108352&mesg_id=108968

[eyl]

12. The post you refer to

didn't actually contain any suggstions beyond "do something else".

And as for the B'Tselem article, note that they don't actually know there is a "death zone" (i.e. free-fire at anyone entering) - they say if such orders were given, it would be illegal.

[pelsar]

13. you noticed that too....

i seem to be having a communication problem with a few posters here...those that complain about israels responses, compaining about 'collective punishement etc"...yet they cant seem to come up with any real alternatives.

I did get a couple "i dont know but...."...at least they had some honesty....but others....i guess its great for some to be able to live a life where hard choices that involve lives doesnt happen, but they get to criticizes those that do have to make those decisions freely while ignoring the restrictions of reality...

ah....the good life.....