Israel: Hamas win would be disastrous

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

Israel has said that a victory for Hamas in Palestinian parliamentary elections would set the region back 50 years, but Palestinians say any move to stop the resistance group from running would be undemocratic.

"In comments broadcast on Saturday, Silvan Shalom, the Israeli foreign minister, said Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, must prevent Hamas participating in the elections on 25 January because the group had carried out numerous deadly attacks against Israel.

"The participation of Hamas in the elections can put us back 50 years," Shalom told Israel Radio. "Today is the time to make the tough decision, the strategic decision, to dismantle the terror infrastructure, to go to elections with the intent of afterward going to peace with Israel."

Foreign Ministry officials said on Friday that if Hamas were to become a dominant force in the Palestinian leadership, it would mean an end to the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians."

<snip>

"But Nabil Abu Rudaina, spokesman for Abbas, rejected the call to stop Hamas from running.

"The legislative elections will be carried out on time and all Palestinian sides have the right to participate in these elections. Otherwise, they would not be democratic," he told Aljazeera on Saturday."

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[madrchsod]

1. they created a beast

and now they realize they can not kill it.

[Wordie]

2. Couple of things:

1. If Israel really doesn't want Hamas to win, then it is foolish to be seen as coming down on Hamas. Israel's meddling could easily have the effect of increasing Hamas' numbers, because of the resentment against that meddling.

2. Presuming that Hamas did come up with a good showing in the elections, rather than being a bad thing, it might instead be a very good thing for Israel. Part of the reason there is so much violence, imo, is because the Pals have so little hope, so few prospects, as things stand now, of a decent life. Give them a stake, and things might just change. It's important to remember that Hamas does engage in charitable activities too.

The Israeli Foreign Minister could only have obtained his position by being a highly intelligent person, and a diplomatic one too. I am sure that he must realize that statements such as this quoted one can have effects on the Pals. It remains to be seen whether his goal in making the statement had more to do with the conditions I mentioned in item 1 above, or in item 2.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Do check this out...

"Iranian leader's Shoah slur is music to Meshal's ears"

[pelsar]

4. corruption.....

if the HAMAs wins it has nothing to do with israel.....it would be because the PA is so corrupt and is made up of the palestenians from tunisia....its a palestenian iinternal dynamics..maybe they are responsable for their own reaction to their own leaders?

or arent the palestenians even capable of that (or should we "blame israel")

[bemildred]

5. More unrealistic twaddle from Shalom.

Abbas is in no position to do much of anything.

[Wordie]

6. Israel has tied Abbas hands, he hasn't been able to deliver. So what can

Israel expect? If he had been able to deliver the goods, something that at least looked like a real step toward the end of the occupation, he might have had a better chance.

Is it too late now?

[pelsar]

7. Abbas...has work to do...

maybe just maybe Abbas should straighten out gaza...show the palestenians that under him they can have a good life?...maybe just maybe he should stop the missle attacks into israel..which israel will then return the "favor" and stop shooting at the missle shooters and keeping them on edge.

maybe abbas should take advantage of gazas access to egypt and the world and expand gaza markets...maybe abbas should act like a president and secure gazas borders...maybe abbas should tell the palestenains that their fate is in their own hands and they should start being responable for it?

On the security level, he has failed the Palestinian public who has yet to see any serious attempt to put an end to the lawlessness that has prevailed, especially in Gaza. A day before the deadline for nominations, the front page of Al Quds showed a photo of masked men, connected to his own party's Al Aqsa Brigades, taking over the Central Elections Commission offices, in Gaza, taking out the computers into the street in a clear sign of defiance to his and the PA's security. It was not the first act of its kind. This sort of thuggery has been going on for some time. Few, if any, have been arrested, charged or imprisoned..


http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=9175&CategoryId=5

[Wordie]

8. Palestinians fate NOT in their own hands as long as they are occupied. nt

[pelsar]

9. Gaza?

whats the excuse again...i keep forgetting

__________________________________________

oh and it seems some palestenians disagree with you..but what do they know, they only live there:

Hamas's strategy of suicide bombing, which helped to "drag" the Fatah factions into suicide attacks on Israeli civilians, was, he believes, a catastrophe. "The leadership led by Arafat took us to disaster ...

http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=9178&CategoryId=5

[Wordie]

10. West Bank??? Jerusalem??? (or are you saying it's Gaza only?) n/t

[pelsar]

12. im saying....

gaza is a start....gaza was israels first move.....if the palestenian society cant control its own borders, cant control the shooters, in gaza israel would have to be suicidal to give them more...and find out they cant controll the kassam shooters out of jerusalem shooting at the knesset....or perhaps blocking the radiio transmissions at the intl airport, shooting kassams at intl flights.

if that would happen, which is possible given that the PA says no to kassam and they fly everyday into israel, your suggestion would be?...

(this i am really interested in hearing.....)

or conversly...why do you excuse the palestenains from shooting at ashkelon and other cities and attempting to kill israeli civilians?....

[bemildred]

11. I dunno if you need to blame it on Israel.

They certainly have not helped with all the hysterical paranoid antics, but the fact is Abbas was never in a strong position, and while you can argue that an opportunity was missed in not giving Abbas more cooperation, plenty of blame can be assigned to corrupt misgovernance.

Speaking of corrupt misgovernance, won't it be a shame of Sharon fails to outlive Arafat by even a year?
:evilgrin:

[Wordie]

13. I just think it would be rather difficult for anyone in Abbas' position.

It is an occupation, after all. Don't disagree about the corruption, really. It just really seems to me that for any Palestinian leader to succeed they will need to show something really substantial as a move toward peace. I don't think that the withdrawal from Gaza was really that, although I certainly applaud the move.

[pelsar]

14. so its tough?

thats what leaders do.....take tough positions and make something out of it....failed leaders (zimbabwa, liberia) make a mess out of things.

so if gaza wasnt the "first move"...then what was it?...and you didnt answer the question....full withdrawl, weak leader, which you seem to agree is possible, and kassams on intl airport?

[bemildred]

15. Withdrawal from Gaza was a unilateral Israeli move.

Without doubt a very good thing, but it appears to me that the possibilities for confidence building and postive engagement that were contained in it have been wasted. It strengthened Hamas rather than Abbas.

The thing about Abbas, as opposed to Arafat, is Arafat had some control. If Arafat said "don't do that" it carried some weight with the militants. So he had a few cards to negotiate with. Abbas has nothing. It is to the point that Hamas thinks to openly contest the leadership with him. To forestall that Barghouti will have to be re-legitimated as the leader of Fatah, at least I see no one else with the political standing required to have a chance. I'm not saying that will happen, but I see no one else that can contest the matter with Hamas as the head of Fatah, as things stand now.

[pelsar]

16. actually it wasnt....

why do you think there were no kassams during the withdrawl?...or as each settlement was left, the PA moved in?...there was complete coordination....houses flattened as per the agreement, greenhouses left intack...as per the agreement, infastructure left intack (electricity etc)...there was a lot that went on with complete coordination between the PA and israel.

as far as anything else...what was left to discuss?....the PA wanted israel out with no preconditions, as they and those in other places across the globe have been screaming about for years....and israel did exactly that.

so whats the problem?....the internal politics of the palestenians is just that..their internal politics. Israel has no right to interfer nor should they. If the hamas is strenghted look toward the PA and their own corruption.....