4 Days until Assault Weapons Ban Sunsets

[Bob Hannah]

It is not time to relax. Everyone start pounding the phones to your Senators tomorrow and Friday, this ban that Threatens our 2nd amendment rights and has not done a single thing to impact crime.
The majority of rifles affected shoots a low powered ammunition and has been hyped by the media.
The most important thing about the 2nd Amendment is that it is must exist to have a 1ST amendment.

You can look up your Senators at this link

<http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/>

[Catch22Dem]

1. I'm afraid I can't agree with you

If I call my congresscritters, it will be to BEG them to renew the ban.

[slackmaster]

44. Why?

What difference will expiration of the ban make?

[noahmijo]

2. Okay that's it I gotta respond now to this whole AWB thing

Does anyone realize the only thing this ban does is cause weapons makers to slightly alter and modify their current models which would be deemed as assault rifles?

They will still fire the same single shot rounds as they did before and will be perfectly legal as it has always been.

You wanna crack down on gun violence? instead call up your Senators and reps and demand that they start cracking down on the guns laws that we have right now, because that's the main problem. We can't even enforce our current gun laws and to solve it what do we do? why impose MORE laws! that's the way!

[Bob Hannah]

4. That is the exact point!

These firearms never left. When the ban went into efect all of the criminals still had access to their weapons. The weapons never left.
It is a law aimed at cosmetic looks of firearms. It never did a thing.

[G_j]

7. why are police so adamant about it? n/t

[noahmijo]

10. SOME police are adamant about it not ALL of them

That's a good question honestly I do not know, maybe that's because given the fact that police are people too, they have differing opinions, many of them actually believe this law does something to really curb gun violence and the problem is it doesn't.

Do you really think a crack dealer or some gangbanger who doesn't fear death to avoid a prison cell will really read the paper one day and say "whoa they banned assault rifles? I better get rid of mine right now!"

My point is simply this: Enforce the laws we already have. We can't even do that. We keep pushing this issue, guess what? criminals out there still easily obtain these types of weapons, they even still to this day easily obtain full-automatic weapons (which are TRULY assault rifles) and THAT is VERY illegal but has it stopped them? No. Why? Because we do a piss poor job of enforcing our current laws and THAT'S what we need to focus on.

All of you out there who are truly for gun control instead of griping for more laws start making calls, writing letters demanding that we put an end to the breaking of the current laws that we already have. If you have children educate them on the dangers of firearms even if you don't own any yourself.

[Lefty48197]

16. We have an assault weapons ban RIGHT NOW

why don't you want that law enforced? Or renewed for that matter? Are there other gun laws that you are pretending to want enforced, but that you actually want repealed? Please elaborate...

[FeebMaster]

19. Only for 4 more days.

Then it sunsets.

[noahmijo]

26. Because the AWB doesn't do anything I said this in another post

All the AWB does is cause weapons makers to slightly modify and alter their already existing models.

And guess what? they operate EXACTLY the same, they may just look a little different. It fires at the same speed, it's the same bullet, that's another thing some of these assault rifles such as the AR 15 use bullets that are common in hunting such as the .223

It's a waste of time and resources to enforce this and it does nothing, it's not like passing a law against banning Full Auto weapons off our streets, in which these weapons you can CLEARLY tell a different and are CLEARLY more dangerous.

And no thank you very much for putting words into my mouth, there are no other laws that I would like to see repealed. I agree with closing gun show loopholes, I think in EVERY state you should be registered/liscensed and fingerprinted before you're allowed to so much as buy a .22.

I think this way why? because I was raised with every type of firearm you could name including what you might consider assault rifles and because of this I'd be the first to say that these types of weapons should not be in the hands of Joe Amatuar, BUT passing ridiculous bills like the AWB which do nothing but entice weapons makers to change the comsmetics and don't target the central problem to me is pointless.

[Bob Hannah]

28. Gun Laws

I believe that convicted felons should not have weapons, the same for
people who have threatened to overthrow the Government of the United States, Illegal Aliens, drug addicts, people who commit domestic violence. These are very good laws, would you agree??

[Lefty48197]

48. Kind of

People that have "paid their debt to society" and who are no longer "deemed a threat" could have gun ownership rights restored, even for convicted felons.

[G_j]

24. I heard an interview

today with a gun dealer who also said the law has made no difference,
that he and everyone else sells weapons that are just as lethal.
This is why I was wondering why many police want the ban in place.

my own sentiments are that I wouldn't mind if we destroyed every last gun on the planet.

[Bob Hannah]

29. Total Gun Ban

That ban would have to be world wide. No RPG's either.

[G_j]

30. of course it would be impossible

but its a nice fantasy.

[John219]

66. Make all the calls you want

Cause its dead. All we are doing is waiting for the last breath which will be at Midnite Monday 13 Sep.
John

[noahmijo]

32. well that's not going to happen (total worldwide gun ban)

I'm sorry you feel that law abiding gun owners should be stripped of their hobby of shooting at the range because of maniacs.

Sure in a perfect world there's peace, love, happiness all that great stuff, I'd give up my guns for a world like that but this is not a perfect world unfortunately and it's NOT the fault of law abiding citizens who just happen to own firearms.

[G_j]

37. as I said, its just a fantasy

another fantasy would be that people wouldn't feel inclined to kill each other. :shrug:

I do think we should stop flooding the world with weapons. That is no doubt the worst problem.

[noahmijo]

39. I can agree with that

I abhor the idea of being a weapons dealer, however this is just an opinion now, you could shove some stats into my face to prove me wrong, but I don't believe the majority of assault style rifles which are sold to terrorists are directly the fault of us. You could go down to the Bahkara Market right now in Somalia I bet and buy a full auto AK-47 (made in Russia) just as easy as your kid can buy a snow cone from the ice cream man.

However, WMD's style weapons....yea I can't say I feel we've been innocent in that deal.....I wouldn't say we're the worst by a longshot but nowhere near innocent.

[G_j]

41. cold war didn't help

take Somalia for instance, lots of both US and Russian weapons.
I think France deals a lot of arms also.

[slackmaster]

46. How many police have you discussed this with personally?

Every one I've spoken with says the federal AWB is pointless and does nothing to enhance public safety.

my own sentiments are that I wouldn't mind if we destroyed every last gun on the planet.

I'm glad the DNC has not adopted that position. It would be political suicide for our party.

[Bob Hannah]

15. Police on the Sunset.

The police that speak against the Weapons Ban are usually organizations like the County Sheriffs Association. these individuals don't speak for the rank and file and they don't want any extra expenses if their state has any kind of permit or background check added later.

[Lefty48197]

17. You speak for the rank and file, more than their professional organization

does?

[Bob Hannah]

42. Well, they do serve the Public

Many of the rank and file are firearms hobbiests alike and they too are restricted by many of the gun laws.

[pinniped]

9. Well since that's the case they're gonna need to implement...

a California style gun ban.

The only decent thing left is the M1A and Mini-14. But whether the Mini-14 is decent or not is a matter of opinion.

[slackmaster]

45. I support a combination of enforcement plus progressive ideals

Yes, we should enforce the laws we have now but a more comprehensive approach to the problem of violent crime must address its root causes:

Unemployment, lack of education, lack of opportunity, and addiction to name a few.

[G_j]

3. sorry to say this but:

breaking news:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5946127/

Congress won’t vote on assault weapons ban
10-year federal ban set
to expire Monday

The Associated Press

Updated: 7:52 p.m. ET Sept. 8, 2004WASHINGTON - Congress will not vote on an assault weapons ban due to expire Monday, Republican leaders said Wednesday, rejecting a last-ditch effort by supporters to renew it.

“I think the will of the American people is consistent with letting it expire, so it will expire,” Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., told reporters.

The 10-year ban, signed by President Clinton in 1994, outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons. A clause directed that the ban expire unless Congress specifically reauthorized it.

..more..

[FeebMaster]

5. Military-style.

Hahah. That never gets old.

[Lefty48197]

18. You know, like the guns soldiers use to kill each other

Military style, HA. What a crock.

[FeebMaster]

20. Actually the guns soldiers use to kill each other

are machine guns, which none of the weapons regulated by the AWB are. HA.

[Lefty48197]

49. Is the three round burst actually a "machine gun"

HA. Everybody knows the M16 is terribly inaccurate when used on full auto, therefore the three round burst, and single shot are probably more effective when used to kill people.

[FeebMaster]

52. Yes.

It's still a machine gun regulated by the NFA.


Everybody knows the M16 is terribly inaccurate when used on full auto, therefore the three round burst, and single shot are probably more effective when used to kill people.

So then you'd no doubt like to see the extra regulations on machine guns removed. Glad to hear it. Our numbers grow daily.

[noahmijo]

6. good cause like I said it's pointless

You wanna do something to curb gun violence like I said, demand that our current laws be enforced, demand that gun show loopholes get closed, if you have small children educate them on firearms even if you don't own any.

Trying to slap laws onto laws that we can't enforce in the first place does NOTHING.

[pinniped]

8. I think the majority of banned weapons fire 5.56 and 7.62x39.

These are good enough for use in battlegrounds of IRQ and AFG.

What ammo has been hyped by the media?

[Bob Hannah]

11. Deer Hunting

The media painted the deadly AR15 when the DC Sniper used it. The point that they were skipping over is they only fired one shot per victim, he could have used a single shot rifle and it would not have made any difference. The 5.56 is the smallest legal caliber allowed to hunt deer in Nebraska, it doesn't much punch to it. Kerry has said that he is for the 2nd Amendment when he is pictured shooting Pheasants.

[noahmijo]

12. The AR15 shoots .223

A very common hunting caliber.

This is true, I own both an AR 15 and a sniper style Ruger rifle that is a bolt action and it fires the exact same bullet as my AR 15; a .223

[Lefty48197]

25. .223 is NOT a common hunting caliber

.

[FeebMaster]

33. Sure it is. (nt)

[Lefty48197]

51. You might want to explain that to Bob and Noah.

They appear to disagree with you. Perhaps you should have caucus'd before you posted?

[FeebMaster]

53. Depends what you're hunting.

One of them said it was the legal minimum for deer in their state, I believe.

[Bob Hannah]

34. That is because it is a weak caliber

You can get a Browning 300 Weatherby and do much more damage than these Militarily Cosmetic rifles.

[noahmijo]

35. Yup it is a weaker caliber

you wouldn't use it to kill a deer that's for sure.

[Lefty48197]

50. Hmmm. Why don't the U.S. Marines use the 300?

Perhaps you should suggest it to them. They'd love to have your input.

[Redneck Socialist]

85. US Marine snipers use .308

which is significantly more powerful than the .223.

[Lefty48197]

23. "civilian ar-15" shoots the same .223 bullet that the military M-16 shoots

Shoots it the same distance too. Kills just the same too. Gophers, or humans.

[pinniped]

43. Of course the weapon didn't really matter much in that...

situation since they were "sniping" people.

But that rifle is a cinch to shoot which is probably why they picked it. Good thing the cops busted them while they were sleeping. They might have decided to go out in a blaze of glory.

I thought it was common knowledge they were firing one shot per victim.

[-..__...]

55. They originally had a Remington 700 in .308.

But abandoned it in the woods because they got spooked by a passerby.

http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=29436

Given the better accuracy and increased killing capacity, they could have easily inflicted more fatalities.

I often wondered how the Brady/VPC/MMM shills would have spun the incidents had Malvo and Muhammed used the Remington instead (would have created a dilemma since those organizations are fond of saying "we don't want to ban your hunting rifles").

"But that rifle is a cinch to shoot which is probably why they picked it".

From what I had read from several accounts, they chose it because Mauhammed was familiarized with it because of his military service.

My theory was they used it was because it was easy to steal and transport (push out a couple of take-down pins and you have two sections that can easily be hidden under a coat).

[Junkdrawer]

13. HERE'S THE LINK TO THE BRADY CAMPAIGN...Please keep this thread kicked...

CALL YOUR HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE:

Once you get their office on the phone, here's what to say:

Urge your House Representative to sponsor H.R. 3831, the bipartisan bill to renew the Assault Weapons Ban. There are currently 136 cosponsors (click here to see up-to-date list). If your Rep has already cosponsored, thank them for their support.

» EMAIL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE TO SAVE THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN
We'll provide you with text you can automatically send to your representative.


» EMAIL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THIS CRUCIAL ISSUE



http://www.bradycampaign.org/

[Bob Hannah]

21. The Brady Campain....

These folks have tried real hard to do good. You can't help but feel for Mr. Brady. But.....They are beating a dead horse on several issues that restrict the law abiding citizen.

[FeebMaster]

22. A little late to start thinking about it

don't you think?

[Bob Hannah]

36. I'm not here for myself

There might come a time when many on this forum wished they had prepared for a future catastrophe. When THAT moment happens,
it is a little too late to shop.

[Lefty48197]

14. I can't wait for your 19th post.

.

[Christof]

27. I don't agree with you.

In fact, I think the ban should be renewed for another 10, 20, 30, or 100 years.

If I call my congressman, It'll be asking to push for another ban.

[Bob Hannah]

31. That is your Right

Absolutely, call him. If more people called their Senators many things would change for the better. I for one have the right to legally Strap on a Sidearm and walk down any street in my state, and I'm not alone. Personal protection doesn't stop after you walk out the front door.

[LisaL]

38. You need an assault weapon to protect yourself?

Where exactly do you live?
:eyes:

[Bob Hannah]

40. I don't need an assault weapon

I don't know if I need an assault type weapon, a shot gun might do fine, but "I" may want to make that choice one day. This is all of
"our" Rights, now.

[IwoVet1945]

47. Let in sunset!

It was a stupid law to begin with and one of the main reasons we lost the House of Rep.

[Zen0]

54. parliament in great britain....

made it illegal for colonists to carry and own guns. (true many still had guns)

When they wrote the constitution they made sure that the bill of rights included the right to bear, so that if a repressive government or a tyranny happened again, the people could once again rebel.

I'm not acquainted with the weapons back in that day, but the british had single shot rifles with smoke producing gun powder
and so did the colonists.

The four fathers had wanted the people to always have the ability to rebel violently if need to, to a repressive government. And if they were here today, I believe they too would make it legal to have citizens own the same type of guns and weaponry that the military has.

But that's speculative, and that's just the four father's personal opinion. I see a need to own guns in the world today, but hopefully one day, weapons will not be needed.

[Trajan]

56. Oh boy ....

Links to the NRA and everything ....

Fuck: why not just have a fucking SEANCE and bring Barry Goldwater and Ole Joe to the party ?? ...

Geezus fffin christ: Keep your RIGHT WING SLEEZE off of our liberal forum ....

[FeebMaster]

57. Still trying to pretend that most of DU isn't pro-gun?

[Trajan]

58. LMFAO ....

Your a fucking riot ....

[FeebMaster]

59. So, yes then. (nt)

[Trajan]

61. Yeah .....

You are so right .....

SO fuckin Right ....

How does it feel to be SO Right ????? ....

Get a grip, man ....

DU is a liberal forum, not a 'libertarian' forum ... and everyone knows: MOST liberals support strong gun regulation .... especially DUers .....

Cmon: give us that NRA link again ...

[FeebMaster]

62. Yes I am.

You are so right .....

Yup.

SO fuckin Right ....

Damn right.


How does it feel to be SO Right ????? ....

Feels good.

Get a grip, man ....

I've got one.


DU is a liberal forum, not a 'libertarian' forum ... and everyone knows: MOST liberals support strong gun regulation .... especially DUers

In your dreams. Everyone knows MOST Republican politicians are pro-gun too. Of course, they're the ones who have passed all of the really good gun control, or bad, depending on your point of view.


Cmon: give us that NRA link again ...

I haven't linked to the NRA.

[UpsideDownFlag]

71. it must be nice to come onto these JPS forums and argue all afternoon

i bet it makes you feel real productive. how's that donation to the libertarian candidate for president coming along?

[FeebMaster]

74. Yes. It's good to have a hobby.

Why would I donate money to the Libertarian candidate?

[UpsideDownFlag]

77. since you're a libertarian.

that is the case, isn't it? do libertarians plan on voting for kerry?

[FeebMaster]

80. Why on earth would you think I'm a libertarian?

"that is the case, isn't it?"

No.


"do libertarians plan on voting for kerry?"

Libertarians will probably vote for whoever they think is the lesser of two evils. Some will probably think Kerry is the lesser of two evils and vote for Kerry. Others will think Bush is the lesser of two evils and vote for Bush. Few will vote Libertarian.

[UpsideDownFlag]

82. i was told you're a libertarian. my apologies.

you aren't then?


(see post 61)

[FeebMaster]

84. I think you misread post 61.

In my reply I was saying "Yes I am (right)." As you can see in my reply to the libertarian forum part of 61:

In your dreams. Everyone knows MOST Republican politicians are pro-gun too. Of course, they're the ones who have passed all of the really good gun control, or bad, depending on your point of view.

I don't mention being a libertarian.


"you aren't then?"

As I've said several times at this point, no.

[-..__...]

68. Hmmmmm.....

Much anger in this one I do detect.



Be tempted not by the darkside of the Bradys or elections you shall lose.

[name not needed]

60. Hahaha!

Bullshit!

Until you tell me what all 50,000 members think of guns, it is bullshit.

[FeebMaster]

63. Oh please.

You know very well that most of those 50,000 don't even post. How many of those 50,000 have been tombstoned?

There have been plenty of polls and threads here that show the majority of people who post here are pro-gun.

[Trajan]

64. Keep talkin like that, big boy ....

and dont take that propeller off yer head ....

[FeebMaster]

65. OK.

"Keep talkin like that, big boy .... and dont take that propeller off yer head .... "

You should really just try and accept that you hold a minority view here. I do and have and it's not so bad.

[UpsideDownFlag]

73. you've accepted that you hold a minority view?

[FeebMaster]

75. What do you mean accepted?

I've never denied holding a minority view on guns. You're the one, along with a couple others, denying that you hold a minority view when it comes to guns.

[UpsideDownFlag]

78. if we have opposing views on guns, they can't both be in the minority

which is it?

[FeebMaster]

81. Of course we can.

I hold a minority view on guns because I want no regulation at all which is clearly not a popular view. You hold a minority view on guns because you want more regulation than most people. The majority of people support some gun control, though the amount varies, just more than I support and less than you support.

[UpsideDownFlag]

72. and somehow, most of the tombstoned dungeonites have been RKBAers

b/c of their incessant urge to spout right wing bullcrap. you and I both know it.

[FeebMaster]

76. So?

[UpsideDownFlag]

79. "How many of those 50,000 have been tombstoned?"

my point was no one can know for sure, but the fact that most of them were RW trolls spouting RKBA NRA propoganda is telling.

while we're asking questions, how many pro-regulation people have been banned, compared to the amount of progunners?

[FeebMaster]

83. Who cares?

What do a bunch of disruptors have to do with the people who are posting here and following the rules?

my point was no one can know for sure, but the fact that most of them were RW trolls spouting RKBA NRA propoganda is telling.

So basically you'd prefer to whine about some people that got tombstoned because you don't want to discuss the actual issues with people who haven't been tombstoned. You really need to get over this minority view thing.

[Endangered Specie]

86. Kind of telling isn't it?

[UpsideDownFlag]

70. its a valient effort, my good man...but they have a need

to post 5 or 6 "AWB is almost gone" bans a day. see, it's the progressive thing to do.

[Bob Hannah]

67. DU Rocks

I thought DU might be more anti-gun, but from your posts your are well informed. The purpose for this thread was to educate all who seek the knowledge of how their rights need to be protected. On another view point, Shooting is fun!! It teaches our young to respect firearms so some idiot school friend doesn't shoot someone
by accident. It also leads to discipline and a skill, but it must be done under adult supervision with rules.

[Bob Hannah]

69. Todays News.....Who'd of Thought

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- "The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March resorted to deceptive advertising in full page ads which ran yesterday in major newspapers," John Michael Snyder, public affairs director of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, charged here today.

Snyder, named Dean of gun lobbyists by national media, said "the claim in the ad that 'every national police organization' supports renewal of the ban on so-called 'assault weapons,' in reality a ban on the manufacture and importation of certain semiautomatic firearms, simply is not accurate.

"Neither the National Association of Chiefs of Police (NACOP) nor the American Federation of Police and Concerned Citizens (AFP&CC) supports it. The Brady bunch is out to lunch!"

The ad ran in The Washington Post and The New York Times.

Snyder noted further that, "annual NACOP surveys of the nation's chiefs of police and sheriffs indicate that over 90 percent of the top law enforcement command officers in America support the right of law-abiding American citizens to purchase firearms for sport or self-defense."

Snyder said that the Brady group "obviously is spending at least many tens of thousands of dollars of its contributors' money on this advertising campaign. What a waste! There is not enthusiastic massive public support for renewal of the ban. In May, on Mother's Day, the so-called Million Mom March for renewal degenerated into a thousand gang limp from the Capitol down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House.

"In May through early June, a CNN QuickVote internet poll demonstrated that of the hundreds of thousands of people interested enough to participate in the poll, 59 percent, or 215,424, voted in favor of lifting the ban, and 41 percent, or 152,257, voted in favor of extending it."

Politically, Snyder concluded, "the ban is a loser. Even former President Clinton, in his 1995 State of the Union Message, indicated that one of the reasons for his party's loss of control of the House of Representatives for the first time in 60 years was its support for the ban which he proposed!"

http://www.usnewswire.com/

-0-

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