Olympic shooting..

[LibLabUK]

With all that gunlovin', how come the USA doesn't seem to be any good at the shooting disciplines?

[Hobarticus]

1. Can't use assault weapons at the Olympics...

Otherwise, we'd a be a shoo-in!

[billbuckhead]

2. If they had an assault rifle contest or terrorize your family contest

I'm sure the NRA crowd would do well.

[ET Awful]

3. They don't give medals for innocent bystanders at the olympics. n/t

[MrBenchley]

6. LOL!!!

[Wilber_Stool]

4. They should let them

shot out of the window of a car.

[GoneOffShore]

5. Used to be a target shooter

Member of the Windsor Rifle Club. Shot at Bisley, etc. It takes discipline and patience to actually hit the target at 1000m, something that Americans seem to lack. Sort of like the way the basketball is going to the Europeans - they practice the basics while our guys just play.

[MrBenchley]

7. Don't worry....

after the Olympics, Mary Rosh John Lott will publish an essay in the Washington Times "proving" the US won ALL the medals.

[iverglas]

8. and Canadians are so good!

Well, there was Linda whatsername, anyhow. What the hell's her name ...

Linda Thom, there we are: http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/sports/shooting/history.html

Oh well, her gold medal was 1984, and that seems to have been the last. Must be those firearms laws ...

Ooh, look at her go: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/Archives/Digests/v01n001-099/v01n052
(that place is pretty much equivalent to freerepublic)

Ms. Thom had these arguments:
- registration of all firearms is the beginning of a police state.
- this is going to be private property they are trying to confiscate.
- who is going to make the determination of value?
- at present people are not complying with the registration process.
- better results would be seen by redirecting funding towards curbing violence instead of confiscating firearms.

Our firearms laws, btw, have all kinds of exemptions for competitive shooters, who are allowed to own otherwise banned weapons that are standard for competitive shooting, etc.

[-..__...]

45. Saddly....

"Our firearms laws, btw, have all kinds of exemptions for competitive shooters, who are allowed to own otherwise banned weapons that are standard for competitive shooting"

Not all countries(states), are created equal.

http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html

"NEW HANDGUNS THAT YOU CANNOT PURCHASE IN MASSACHUSETTS"

"Hämmerli Model SP20 .22LR Target Pistol
These are illegal in MA because they are not on the APPROVED ROSTER LIST. Before "The List" came out we could sell them under the Consumer Protection Regulations "solely for competition use only" exemption."



"Sorry... No gun for you!"



PARDINI .22LR Olympic Grade COMPETITION PISTOLS



1-10 years in a Mass. Corrections Institution for selling one of these now because they were not certified by a testing lab and not on he Approved Roster List.

Oh....and a $1,000 to $10,000 fine!

"Sorry... No gun for you!



Even introductory, inexpensive target pistols.

"All Ruger Semi-auto pistols are illegal to sell in Massachusetts. However, most of their REVOLVERS were certified for sale March 2002. Thank you!"



"Sorry... No gun for you!




Ok, so how do we fix that?

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/ht03571.htm

"AN ACT TO PROTECT TARGET SHOOTING.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:

Notwithstanding any law or regulation to the contrary, any pistol designed expressly for use in target shooting competitions, including but not limited to official, Olympic style international shooting competitions, shall be exempt from any law or regulation considering them to be unsafe or requiring testing or other such requirement or requiring them to be registered. Such pistols should include, but not be limited to, those that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting."

Current status...

http://www.mass.gov/legis/history/h03571.htm\

"Sorry...." Ahhhh, you get the idea.

[MrSandman]

46. No Ruger semi .22's...

How do you afford to train?

[-..__...]

47. Affordability!?!...

Feh!... Just ask our AG about that. I have an S&W Model 41 (which I consider an intermediate target pistol, but at about $750 used],
it's not the sort of investment one could (or would), splurge on their kid just getting interested in shooting sports. The only other alternative is the S&W Model 22. Affordable, but not the first choice when a better alternative like the Ruger MK-II should be available.

It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't some degree of racism coming from the MA AG's office or the state legislature. There's probably a number of inner city kids who would excel or could benefit from a proper firearms training, education safety and marksmanship program, but can't afford the cost.

[MrSandman]

49. And people worry about WV being 49th in everything...n/t

[Lefty48197]

54. Have you tried to get the individual weapons placed on the "approved" list

?

[DinahMoeHum]

9. There's Kim Rhode (USA) won gold for double trap shooting. . .

just the other day in Athens.

Hey, she should get together with John Kerry for skeet shooting!!

But to answer your question:
Sport shooting requires discipline and steady nerves, which the "gun nuts" ain't got.

:evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

10. The federal government has failed to keep its Constitutional obligation

To uphold and train the militia, combined with decades of no major wars.

This is all that's left of what it used to provide:

http://www.odcmp.org/0804/default.asp

[Pert_UK]

11. Because the rules forbid drinking a beer between each shot &...

none of the targets are alive so they can't be bothered...

:evilgrin:

I joke, of course.

P.

[TheRovingGourmet]

12. No beer? Screw that.

We should send the Bloods and the Crips over there to have a shot at competitive shooting. Have the Bloods on one side of the stadium and the Crips on the other and the targets in the middle. The survivors get a medal and no return airfare.

[MrSandman]

13. They have taken the shooting sports...

Out of interscholastic competition in favor of stick and ball sports.

[iverglas]

14. where's Tom Jefferson when you need him?!

They have taken the shooting sports...
Out of interscholastic competition in favor of stick and ball sports.

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walk.

[MrSandman]

15. Target shooting...

Requires a lot of discipline and a lot of weight training to be competitive, IME.

[TX-RAT]

16. No kidding, watch the free pistol event.

Put 60 rounds into a 2 inch circle at 50 meters, with one hand. Hell try and do it with two. Hell try and do it from a bench.

[skippythwndrdog]

17. How about the air rifle event?

12 pounds (5.46 kg) is pretty tough to hold steadily enough to hit the period at the end of this sentence at 10 meters.

[LibLabUK]

18. Hmm...

"Requires a lot of discipline and a lot of weight training to be competitive, IME."

That's a strange explanation of the US' poor performance.

Would it be fair to say that the overwhelming majority of US gun owners are not sportspeople, whilst the exact opposite situation is found in the rest of the world?

Should the gun owner organisations therefore drop the pretence of representing a sport?


edited for grammar

[MrBenchley]

19. Now if lying was an Olympic sport...our gun guys would have an edge...

[LibLabUK]

20. Hehe...

Maybe they should add some new events.

Trauma surgery.

The US would probably dominate the multiple gunshot wound event.

[iverglas]

25. trauma surgery

Yeah ... but could even multiple gold medals make what the US team would charge for the surgery a good deal?

[LibLabUK]

26. Well..

I guess the "target" would have to have some sweet sponsorship.

But hey, maybe inflicting the wounds will draw more of a NRA crowd to compete..

So it could be a double pay-day for the US medals table.

[TheRovingGourmet]

21. Could be that our best shooters are in Iraq this year.

[MrSandman]

30. No, that wasn't my explanation...

For poor performance. I was commenting it is more than moderate exercise to the body.

Maybe if there were some Camp Peary and IDPA style competitions.

[FatSlob]

23. Good quote.

I'm proud of you.

[iverglas]

24. hey

I can quote Hitler too -- real stuff, not made up stuff -- if it would make you happy.

I do from time to time quote things I don't agree with ... or consider just plain dumb ...


(The quote in question came from a letter that Tom wrote to his nephew in 1812; I didn't cite it to anything, because it's all over the net and I tracking down the citation data for the primary source would just be a pain.)

[FatSlob]

36. We've all heard of it.

BTW, does the average Canadian know anything about US history and the "founding fathers"? I'll freely admit to knowing approximately nothing about Canadian history.

[iverglas]

the average Canadian

BTW, does the average Canadian know anything about US history and the "founding fathers"?

... probably knows more about US history than the average USAmerican. Well, perhaps not the founding fathers stuff, but then the average Canadian probably couldn't name more than one or two Fathers of Confederation, either.



All right ... *that* image should be stable. The one standing up in the middle is Sir John. A., and if they'd had colour photography his nose would be quite red.

We just don't make quite such a fetish of old dead white guy worship.

At least yer average Canadian (one who'd heard of the War of 1812) knows who won it. And that Laura Secord isn't just a brand of chocolates.

I'll freely admit to knowing approximately nothing about Canadian history.

The average Canadian is quite well aware of that being true of the average USAmerican, too. And would add: European history, new world history outside the borders of the US and maybe Mexico, the history of anywhere else in the world, current events in any of those places ...

But if you asked a Canadian who chopped down that cherry tree, s/he could tell you. Hollywood does its job well. (Of course we all know that its job is to create markets for USAmerican economic expansion, right? Ask that Valenti guy next time he's meeting with his buddies in your Congress.)

Some Canadians undoubtedly even think that Benedict Arnold was a traitor.

[Endangered Specie]

22. The targets aren't live.

[Romulus]

27. thanks, for putting to rest the lie

that the US is "the most gun place :eyes: in the world"

[iverglas]

28. hmm

New Zealand doesn't have any water sports medals.

I guess that means there isn't much water thereabouts ...

[Endangered Specie]

31. lol, good one.

Jamacia doesnt have any winter medals, that dont mean they dont have a bobsled team.

[MrBenchley]

29. "the most gun place in the world"?

Uh-HUH....

[Endangered Specie]

32. wheres a grammar nazi when you need one?

Too busy shooting, probably :shrug:

[NorthernSpy]

40. oh, please...

Please -- quit pretending that y'all can't figure out what he intended to say. 'Most gun-loving place in the world'. Seriously, it's not that hard to grasp his meaning.


:eyes:


Mary

[Romulus]

41. actually

I just thought it sounded funny that way, so I just left it like that.

I figured people would understand what I was getting at . . .

[NorthernSpy]

44. what you wrote was perfectly clear to everyone

I dunno why some people might wish to pretend otherwise. Such mysterious customs our opposition has...


:shrug:

[Vladimir]

42. Militant grammar front [n-dash] checking in! n/t

[happyslug]

33. Here is the list of all winners and future events

Men

10m Air Pistol (60 Shots)
Yifu Wang - CHINA
Mikhail Nestruev - RUSSIA
Vladimir Isakov - RUSSIA

10m Air Rifle (60 Shots)

Qinan Zhu - CHINA
Jie Li - CHINA
Jozef Gonci - SLOVAKIA

10m Running Target (30+30 Shots)

Manfred Kurzer - GERMANY
Alexander Blinov - RUSSIA
Dimitri Lykin - RUSSIA

50m Free Pistol (60 Shots)

Mikhail Nestruev - RUSSIA
Jong Oh Jin - SOUTH KOREA
Jong Su Kim - PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF KOREA (NORTH KOREA)

Double Trap (150 Targets)

Ahmed Almaktoum - UAE (United Arab Emirites)
Rajyavardhan S. Rathore - INDIA
Zheng Wang - CHINA

Trap (125 Targets)

Alexei Alipov - RUSSIA
Giovanni Pellielo - ITALY
Adam Vella - AUSTRAILIA

Women

10m Air Pistol (40 Shots)

Olena Kostevych - UKRAINE
Jasna Sekaric - SERBIA and MONTENEGRO
Maria Grozdeva - BULGURIA

10m Air Rifle (40 Shots)

Li Du - CHINA
Lioubov Galkina - RUSSIA
Katerina Kurkova CZECH REPUBLIC

Skeet (75 Targets)

Diana Igaly - HUNGURY

Ning Wei - CHINA
Zemfira Meftakhetdinova AZERBAIJAN

Trap (75 Targets)

Suzanne Balogh - AUSTRIALIA
Maria Quintanal - SPAIN
Bo Na Lee - SOUTH KOREA

SCHEDULED FOR Friday August 20th:

Olympics: TV Schedule for Day 20

Time Event
9-10 am ET/PT Gold-medal final Men's Rifle prone


Olympics: Events for Day 20

Time Event
2:00 am Women's 50m Rifle 3 Positions Qualification
5:00 am Men's 50m Rifle Prone Qualification
5:30 am Women's 50m Rifle 3 Positions Final (Gold Medal Round)
7:30 am Men's 50m Rifle Prone Final (Gold Medal Round)

FOR Saturday August 21

Olympics: Events for Day 21
Time Event
3:00 am Men's Skeet Qualification - Day 1
4:30 am Men's 25m Rapid Fire Pistol Qual-Stg. 2
7:30 am Men's 25m Rapid Fire Pistol Final (Gold Medal Round)


For Sunday August 22, 2004:

Midnight-1 am ET/PT Gold-medal final - Men's skeet

Time Event
2:00 am Men's 50m Rifle 3 Positions Qualification
4:00 am Men's Skeet Qualification - Day 2
6:30 am Men's 50m Rifle 3 Positions Final (Gold Medal Round)
8:30 am Men's Skeet Final

All times Eastern

Complete Schedule:
http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/schedule

List of Shooters:

Women
Sarah Blakeslee, Vancouver, Wash.
Elizabeth Callahan, Columbia, S.C.
Emily Caruso, Fairfield, Conn.
Morgan Hicks, Roy, Wash.
Hattie Johnson, Athol, Idaho.
Collyn Loper, Birmingham, Ala.
Kim Rhode, El Monte, Calif.
Connie Schiller Smotek, Bryan, Texas.
Rebecca Snyder, Grand Junction, Colo.
Men
Michael Anti, Winterville, N.C.
Lance Bade, Vancouver, Wash.
Shawn Dulohery, Lee's Summit, Mo.
Glenn Eller, Houston.
Matt Emmons, Browns Mills, N.J.
Bret Erickson, Bennington, Neb.
Todd Graves, Laurel, Miss.
Koby Holland, Dillon, Mont.
Jason Parker, Omaha, Neb.
Adam Saathoff, Hereford, Ariz.
Daryl Szarenski, Saginaw, Mich.
Jason Turner, Rochester, N.Y.

For list of ALL US athletes:

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpOG8zcWp1BF9TAzk2NjczMTc1BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-usolympicroster&prov=ap&type=lgns

[happyslug]

34. First look at who is winning and why

If you look it is mostly the Russians, they have heavily subsidize their shooting sports (as do the Chinese). Part of this is their concept of during what we Americans call "Basic Training" in their High Schools (In Russia and the old USSR this was so that right out of High School they can be assigned to a unit). China has a similar concept but its Regular Army is Volunteer not the Universal Military Service of Russia. Even through the Chinese Army is all Volunteer under Maoist theory it is to be supported by the Chinese local and Provincial Militia. It is to train these Local and Provincial Militias that the Chinese encourage Shooting.

Please note shooting is encouraged in these countries but in the Schools or other Government controlled organization, NOT by people acting on their own or by themselves.

In Russia and China if you show an aptitude for any sport you are groomed to go to their schools for that sport. This includes the Shooting Sports where better rifles and Ammunition (or any piece of equipment whatever the sport) is provided to the athlete and he competes. As the Athlete gets better and better he is provided better and better equipment (Even of Foreign manufacture). From this base the top athletes go to the Olympics and as you can see win.

Do NOT think this is unfair, most countries adopted such programs to respond to what they called the US subsidies to its track and field athletes in the early to mid 20th century. US Colleges gave out scholarships for such athletes, which other countries DID NOT (and often still do not). Till the 1960s the US Dominated Track and Field do to these scholarships. To level the field Countries started to give assistance to their "amateur" athletes till we have the situation we have today, where most of the top competitors in the Olympics are really trained professionals and this has been the case since the 1960s. It is rare to have any "True" Amateurs in an Olympic event, if you have to earn a living you can NOT train to the level needed to compete at the Olympics. Some people do, and even win, but most of the medals go to people whose major activity in life is to win a Medal NOT to earn a living.

Furthermore in American our Schools rarely have the shooting sports (and where their do it is NOT subsidized liked the ones in Russian and China). People have to spend their money to shoot and to shoot at the top level you need top end equipment. These costs THOUSAND of Dollars. In fact the Russians and Germans Dominate the market for high end firearms for the shooting sports (with the English, Germans and Russians even producing better and more accurate ammunition for these Weapons than you can generally find in the USA).

The USA Ammunition is very good, but not the consistent accuracy of the English and/or German top end ammunition. American Ammunition is good enough for most things (including military operations and self defense) but not good enough to win in the Olympics. Most American Shooters have no access to these top end items EVEN IF THEIR COULD AFFORD THEM. I have seen many shoot for years but only among friends for they KNOW they can NOT compete with the top shooters of other nations GIVEN the equipment those top shooters are given by their Governments.

As to the comment that the US top Shooters are in Iraq, to a degree that is true, but even the US Army and Marines Snipers are NOT as good as these Olympic Shooters. The US Snipers are better at being Snipers (Which include picking target and staying unseen by the enemy) but not the Prue shooting being done in the Olympics.

Thus the reasons the US do not win to many Shooting events is tied up with the fact that the US does NOT subsidize the Sport. This reduce the time to train in the sport AND to have the best equipment in order to participate (For comparison see how the US Softball team is doing, it is dominating the sport for no one else in the world really plays Softball so the US Amateurs will win, not because they are subsidized but none of the competitors in the Olympics are). They are other sports like Softball that no one really cares about and thus real amateurs can win in, but Shooting like Track and Field is not one of them.

[MrSandman]

35. That's what I meant...

about the intersholastic comment. Didn't know about the heavy subsidies of other countries. Still like to see some practical shooting events.

[TX-RAT]

43. Could be we don't have competitive weapons.

Whens the last time a US manufacture made a free pistol.
Hi-Standard 10x
Smith & Wesson model 41
They can't compete.

[happyslug]

48. Prices of Rifles being used:

only $2159.00 for a .22

This is an Anshuetz, Walther also makes high end free rifles (The Woman 50mm Free Rifle Champion from Russia was using a Walther). Both are made in Germany and top end. You can buy a AK-47 in parts of Africa for $50 a pop for comparision (AK-47 Post Ban Clones in the US run about $350).

http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/Information.html

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Romulus]

38. US guy wins gold

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040820/ap_on_sp_ol/oly_men_s_50m_rifle_prone_sho_4

"ATHENS, Greece - American Matt Emmons won the gold medal Friday in the 50-meter prone rifle competition with a score of 703.3. Emmons led all shooters after the qualifying round with a score of 599, which meant that only one of his 60 shots failed to hit the bull's-eye that is 10.4 millimeters in diameter — smaller than a dime. "

*snip/more*

[TX-RAT]

39. Thats serious shooting.

[DoNotRefill]

50. we are...

it's just that we prefer to use REAL guns, not air rifles.

I own an Olympic-grade .22LR. It's an antique (Pre-WWII). At 100 yards, I can play "pop'em" with golf-balls until the golf ball dissolves, and rarely miss. It's fun in a really lame way, but it's not nearly as much fun as machinegunning a 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel that's got a bunch of dynamite strapped to it. There's a reactive target, and then there's a REACTIVE target, if you know what I mean...

[enfield collector]

52. try mixing in some ammonium nitrate, makes tannerite look

positively boring.

[Remmah]

51. We're not doing well in the equestrian events either......

....and we certainly have our fair share of horses asses.

[Lefty48197]

53. When they start giving medals for fat drunk guys running around in the

woods, dressed in camo, and protecting the freedom of the American people, THEN you'll see us 'mericans excelling in the shooting events.

[goju]

55. A better one...

They should give medals for lilly white pansy asses crying over bambi and ducking behind their wives and small children at the sight of a gun. Gotta have medal potential there huh!

[MrBenchley]

56. Yeah, it's always interesting to see what's lurking under that RKBA sheet