The concept of "assault weapons" is nothing more than a technology race.

[Remmah]

Caveman barbarians invades neighbors cave, rapes and steals, inhabitant of cave picks up BFR and defends his family. Next time around the barbarians assault with BFR, cave inhabitant sees them coming and first bow and arrow are fashioned to dispatch invaders at a distance.

Over the years assault weapons have been countered with defense weapons. Weapons come in many forms too, clubs, knifes, firearms of all varieties, fire and chemicals. Technology has been implemented to even the odds against superior numbers. If I blow in my neighborhood drug lab and in a fit of revenge five of them come to my house, you can bet I'll be looking for the biggest best technology that I can find to defend my family.

If someone thinks that I "don't need" an assault weapon this speaks loads for their trust about me. If they tell me I don't need a "home defense weapon", I sure am going to be concerned about their intentions.

[amber dog democrat]

1. that is a good point.- can someone else speak for you ? No.

I always thought a good system would require 3 types of guns.
A good semi auto for laying down fields of fire
a shot gun for riot control
and for up close, my preference for a pistol , the 45. ACP

seriously I am ambivalant about using firearms for protection - unless you have had training they can be as dangerous to the owner as to the intruder.

But if someone threatened my family in MY house, there would be a chalk outline on the floor. I would hate to spoil a good Persian carpet however.

[Remmah]

4. I hope I never have to cross the line.

Hope the noise alone will change anyones mind intending me harm.

Firearms, a minute to learn, a lifetime to master.

(I'm a Zen convert gun owner.)

[amber dog democrat]

10. True story

some one was trying to open my front door after midnight,
The fact that it was locked did not prevent that person from turning the knob.
I could not see who was doing it, but I went to a closet, picked up an UNLOADED
mini 14, crept up to the door, while the person was still tampering with the lock
and pulled back the bolt and let it slam into the empy receiver with a most satisfying and loud KLACK ! KLACK ! noise.

Needless to say that whomever it was, that person made a fast departure.
I had been broken into several times. Some one would steal a broken Betamax VCR
and leave my Martin D-35 on its stand undistubed. On another occaision some one kicked the deadbolt through the frame of the door and made off with my micro wave oven. On another occaision I chased someone out of my house at 3 AM from being dead asleep. Thankfully I have moved to a better neighborhood since.

I don't want to ever be in a situation where I am using lethal force - but there is not a grand jury in Texas that would true bill you for killing an intruder in your own home.

All you have to say is " Officer I feared for my life " but using a whole 30 round mag woud be wasteful and again I don't want to spoil a good tribal Persian rug.

[TX-RAT]

11. some one was trying to open my front door after midnight

At what point did you call law enforcement?

[amber dog democrat]

13. Why bother ?

The times I have been broken into and the time I actually chased someone out of my house ( that person had the presence of mind to close 2 doors in front of me - while i was in persuit ) the police arrived over an hour later, asked a few questions and gave me a card with a case number.

The time I chased an intruder, i felt they were very condescending, late, and generally useless.
It seemed to me that they were more interested in trying to figure me out than to take my report seriously. I remember them looking at the LL Bean catalog near my bed maybe hoping it was porographic...or that is the way it seemed.

Maybe if I had the person tied up on the floor they would claim the collar and take him away.

I am not very impressed with our constabulary. they are good at writing speeding tickets but the cavelry arrives late. Its kind of like they are good at adding another layer of bureaucaracy to a situation.

For a while there was some one fireing a heavy caliber hand gun on weeknights in a park nearby.
I would call in the report but ... it went on for weeks. I don't know if they stopped it or not. I know when to call them but in that incident - with all the drug dealing going on why bother>

[TX-RAT]

18. "Why bother ?"

Answered my question.

[amber dog democrat]

19. The less contact with the local law enforcement

the better.

[TX-RAT]

24. Why is that?

[Fescue4u]

30. Well the reality is that no good wil come of it

and quite a bit of bad could.

Obviously, without even so much as a description of the suspect, no one could be arrested.

However the homeowner could possibly be charged or at least harassed by the police for brandishing a weapon, or in some terrible areas, even owning one.

Its kinda like giving police the permission to search your car...nothing good can come of it.

Take the Martha Stewart example. Why is she going to prison? A: because she spoke to the police and denied her guilt.

If she had kept her mouth shut, she would be free today.

[TX-RAT]

35. "Well the reality is that no good Will come of it"

Don't know if you don't call.

(and quite a bit of bad could)
What bad could happen from calling and reporting a crime.

(harassed by the police for brandishing a weapon,)
Word of advise, if you brandish a weapon in public, make sure your the one who calls LEO first.

[Fescue4u]

43. Good advice

And I don't want to imply that calling the cops is never a good idea. Quite the contrary.

My line of thought runs along the lines of the saying that 80% of the people in jail, talked their way into it.

In the example where one cannot even describe the now absent perpetrator outside your home, the police really cannot do anything positive for you, and the possibility always exist for something negative (no matter how innocent you think you are).

[MrBenchley]

22. Another "responsible law abiding gun owner" (snicker)

[Wcross]

44. Why call a guy with a gun if you already have one? n/t

[Remmah]

23. Call law enforcement?

Just how long until they arrive?

I was at ground zero of a near street brawl once. Took the PD nearly 30 minutes to respond.

[TX-RAT]

26. Just how long until they arrive?

Just how big is you city?
Just how far away was the closest officer?
just how busy was the department that night?
Just how good was the info given to the 911 operator?
Our county is 1200 sq miles, try to cover that with 4 deputy's.

[amber dog democrat]

27. This is Austin, TX

If I chased someone out of my house and called immediately -
there should be a timely response to see if a patrol car could find someone in my neighborhood that matches that description. What worries me is not knowing how
potentially dangerous this person may be to someone ELSE. I'm a pretty big guy and can take care of myself. Wneh I chased him I had every intention to catch him and hurt him. To force ones' way into an occupied house is a sociopathic thing to do.
This is not when you want to determine someone's motives. I had seconds to make a choice on how to respond. When I awoke, he had entered the bedroom. I was living alone at the time.

I want to police to take my call more seriously.
Not show up an hour later and just hand me a card with a case number.

That's what convinced me I am better off arming myself.

I will still call them.
That first time I did not call ..I was so relieved I scared that person away by working the action on an unloaded rifle that I went back to bed. I figured he / she would not be back anytime soon.


Just how big is you city? 300,000 + ?
Just how far away was the closest officer? No idea. this happned 7 years ago.
just how busy was the department that night? At 3 AM on a Wednesday Morning ?
who knows? Maybe they were
doing traffic stops or going after
prostitues - had a few once.
I don't know how many were in my
sector. Live in D for David.
Just how good was the info given to the 911 operator?
OK I think.
Our county is 1200 sq miles, try to cover that with 4 deputy's.
Then you have your hands full.

Don't misunderstand I WILL call but I will take prudent action first if i have an opportunity. sometimes I feel I have to assess and deal with the situation if i don't have the luxury of time. . THEN call.
Lethal force is a different thing. I would not want to take out someone's kid.
Would not want that on my conscience.

[TX-RAT]

28. I figured he / she would not be back anytime soon.

Probably not, they'll just go to a neighbors house. You can't catch prowlers or burglars unless someone calls and lets you know you got one.

[amber dog democrat]

32. yup - I agree.

but if I were on the prowl and heard a shotgun or rifle behind a closed door,
I might think twice before tried it again at a neighboring house.
I would figure I got off lucky - that time.

[LibraLabSoldier]

51. Pump shotguns

have a very distinctive sound. When my house was being broken into, all I had to do was jack a round into the chamber and the perp(or perps) ran like hell.....Their bad luck for picking the house of an Army guy who works nights and cant sleep on his days off.....:headbang:

[MrBenchley]

2. "this speaks loads for their trust about me"

Yup....I wouldn't trust anybody with an assault weapon. Much less a stranger.

[Remmah]

3. I have to agree.

There are certainly some strange people out there.

[MrBenchley]

5. Plenty of strange ones in here, too....

Some of them just itching to gun down their fellow citizens...

[turnkey]

9. That is the attitude...

that I would hope an assailant or home invader would take.

[MrBenchley]

12. Wave those guns around in public, do you?

[turnkey]

20. I keep it low profile...n/t

[amber dog democrat]

14. No

but there is a saying " an armed society is a polite one "
I have considered getting a permit to carry.

[LibLabUK]

15. Hmm..

"but there is a saying " an armed society is a polite one " "

Heinlein I believe. It's pretty bad as sayings go.

Think of armed societies and places like Sierra leone and Somalia come to mind. Hardly what I'd call civilised let alone polite.

[amber dog democrat]

17. yup Heinlein. Your'e right.

While i like the idea of having the option to own guns, unless I have some training , I would be more of an unintentional danger to myself as well as others.

Agreed, this is not the frontier of the American West in the mid 19th C.

I can not jusfy or defend gun ownership - they are fun to take to a rifle range howerver. I am a pedestrain plinker.

[iverglas]

16. ah yes

there is a saying "an armed society is a polite one"

Old Haitian proverb, or so Google tells me:
"The child of a tiger is a tiger".

Which reminds me of old Trailer Park Boys proverb:
"The shit apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree."


The shit leopard never changes its spots ...

[skippythwndrdog]

21. Would you trust yourself with one?

[MrBenchley]

25. Why the fuck would I ever need one, skippy?

[skippythwndrdog]

29. Need, or for that matter want, was not the question.

The question was, "Would you trust yourself with one?"

Can I get a straight answer?

[MrBenchley]

31. Next ask me

what the fuck I want with something I don't need....

[skippythwndrdog]

33. You'd want it for what?

The hole in the end is far too small for that! At least at my house.

[MrBenchley]

36. Don't want or need one, skippy....

Since I'm not a mentally disturbed loon who needs an assault weapon to make up for any, er, shortcomings....

[skippythwndrdog]

39. Impotent words from another anti.

There's the clue!

[MrBenchley]

40. Too funny, skippy....

Guess somebody has a real problem with his weenie....

[skippythwndrdog]

34. As usual. No answer.

Does that mean you wouldn't trust yourself with one?

[MrBenchley]

37. Skippy, it got all the answer a lameass question deserved

[skippythwndrdog]

38. Is it beyond the pale for anyone to get a straight answer from you?

Oops. There's another pesky direct question wanting an answer that will never come.

[MrBenchley]

41. You got a straight answer....now go snivel about it

to somebody else.

[skippythwndrdog]

42. As usual, you refuse to answer the question.

A reminder: I did not ask if you wanted an assault rifle. I did not ask if you needed an assault rifle. I did ask if you would trust yourself with an assault rifle.

You have stated that you do not want one. You have stated that you do not need one. You have not stated whether you do or do not trust yourself with one.

edutid fer spellin

[MrBenchley]

45. I answered your lameass question as it deserved to be, skippy....

To quote the late great Gilda Radner,

"If you don't love it
You can shove it
Frankly, I don't care"

[LibLabUK]

6. Err..

Is paranoia a national pasttime over that side of the pond?

[Remmah]

7. Sure we're paranoid.

But who was paranoid first?

[FrontPorchPhilosophr]

8. As a "Child of the '60's".....

"the fact that you are paranoid does not mean that they are NOT out to GET you....."

It is a given on this side of the pond that government ALWAYS promises that they are ONLY going to do X.....

And then does X + 150%....

:hippie:

[library_max]

46. But, ya know, we aren't cavemen.

It isn't our business to regulate our neighbors' activities by force. It isn't appropriate to be constantly picking fights with them. We live in a society of government and laws. That, more than technology, is the problem with expecting to be allowed just any old weapon for self-defense. When technology produces a weapon that can be used for self-defense and not for aggression, then you'll have an argument.

As far as trust is concerned, there are over 10,000 murders every year with firearms. How far should we have trusted those gun owners? Do you think they had "future murderer" stamped on their foreheads when they bought their guns? If not, how can/could they be legally distinguished from people like you?

[Remmah]

47. Can't say I agree.

Your concept is excellent, I'd love to see a world like that. The world is incredibly imperfect and we have to learn to be flexible to deal with it.

10,000 murders? How many were drug trade related? How many were alcohol related? Were those people obeying the law when they used their guns? Government and laws need to stop punishing law abiding citizens or it'll breed contempt.

[MrBenchley]

48. What difference does it make?

"10,000 murders? How many were drug trade related? How many were alcohol related?"
How many were idiot related? How many were hate related? We know they all were gun related.

"Government and laws need to stop punishing law abiding citizens or it'll breed contempt."
It takes a particularly twisted viewpoint to pretend that keeping nutcases and thugs from getting their hands on military-typew weapons is "punishing" anyone. And who exactly will it "breed contempt" among? Somebody who's wetting themselves over not having an assault weapon?

[iverglas]

49. indeed

Government and laws need to stop punishing law abiding citizens or it'll breed contempt.

It wouldn't just breed contempt -- it might well breed revolution.

After all, it would be completely unconstitutional. No deprivation of life or liberty or property without due process and all that, eh?

So does this happen much down there?

[library_max]

50. You can't buy a nuclear weapon. Is that "punishing" you?

You can't spread DDT on your lawn. Is that "punishing" you?

You can't flush dioxin down your toilet. Is that "punishing" you?

The law restricts the behavior of citizens for the health and safety of other citizens. That's not punishment. However, if some citizens insist on breaking the law that's there to protect everybody, then yes, they get punished. But then they're not law abiding citizens.

"I'd love to see a world like that." Like what - a world with laws and government? Then open your eyes and look around you.