One thing you don't need in order to

[Retired AF Dem]

kill a group of people is a gun. Would having a gun saved a group of people in this incident? Or would he or she been an asshole for shooting someone not having a gun?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BODIES_FOUND?SITE=PAYOK&SECTION=HOME

[Endangered Specie]

1. Well, the end of the article...

The killing spree in the working-class, bedroom community of more than 70,000 people was the deadliest in Florida since 1990, when a man whose car was repossessed shot eight people to death at a Jacksonville loan office before turning the gun on himself.

[skippythwndrdog]

2. Double post n/t

[skippythwndrdog]

3. You must be reading something else than I did.

The article in the link mentioned nothing about guns, shooting, shooting sprees, or any reference to other mass killings.

Are you sure it was this link?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BODIES_FOUND?SITE=PAYOK&SECTION=HOME

[Endangered Specie]

4. Im not sure how I got from your link to this article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-06-florida-bodies_x.htm

But I beleive they are referring to the same event.

[enfield collector]

5. it's the same crime. no guns were involved.

you don't need guns to brutally kill people, just the desire to do it. look at all the ethnic cleansing done in rwanda, lots of clubs and machetes used there.

[Endangered Specie]

6. While you dont need guns technically of course.

They do make it alot easier to murder someone. It takes quite a psychological leap to want to kill someone, but, knowing that the process will be alot easier and from a distance is likely to help that mental leap.

one example, Gangs tend to prefer guns, much quicker, less mess, easy getaway.

Killing isnt the only thing criminals will use a gun for... its Much easier to rob someone/something with a gun.

Speaking of ethnic cleansing, Nazis were particular fans of the firing squad.

[goju]

7. and gun control! n/t

[Columbia]

8. Wowsers, guns sure are effective tools

Good thing we don't restrict them so only bad guys can have 'em.

[skippythwndrdog]

12. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. n/t

[Bowline]

9. No one here has yet to point out the obvious.

This was a brutal, vicious crime but no one has pointed out yet that if even ONE of the victims had been armed, instead of six savagely beaten corpses there would be six people still alive.

This is a perfect example where a gun certainly could have, and likely would have, saved six lives.

[name not needed]

10. You don't know that.

You assume that one victim had been armed, this would have never happened? How sure are you of that?

[Bowline]

11. Nothing is 100%

While I can't prove it to be true I personally believe that had one of the victims been armed there would have been fewer dead victims. A lot of other people feel the same way. That's why many Americans own guns and why many carry them on a daily basis.

P.S. Love the Evil Barney picture.

[FeebMaster]

13. Obviously if one of those victims had been armed

the attackers would have just taken their gun away and used it against them.

[TX-RAT]

14. "Obviously if one of those victims had been armed"

And not attacked in their sleep.

[FeebMaster]

15. Maybe you should read the article.

All four suspects were armed with aluminum bats when Victorino kicked in the locked front door

I'm guessing that made a lot of noise.

The victims, some of whom were sleeping, did not put up a fight or try to escape

Yup they were all obviously lying there helpless and sleeping while some people kicked in a door and beat them all to death.

[TX-RAT]

16. I'm guessing that made a lot of noise.

Obviously not, when some were killed in bed. Especially if alcohol was involved. I've been on several forced entry's, where we had to wake up the suspect. Thats after breaking down the door and announcing our presence.

[FeebMaster]

22. So your saying that these guys busted in a door

and beat six people to death so quietly that no one woke up? I'm confused. Did the article mention that the victims were sleeping in a drunken stupor?

[TX-RAT]

23. Not what i said at all, no wonder your confused.

I said if alcohol was involved. Would be interested to see the autopsy results.

[Bowline]

24. Someone once said...

..."Someone my kill you with your own gun but they should have to use it to club you to death because it's empty."

[CarinKaryn]

17. Since these people were killed in their sleep

most likely their guns would have been stolen along with the xbox and the guns would already be on the street - traded or sold for drug money and causing terror in another neighborhood.

The unfortunite people are dead - there is no way a gun could have helped them while they were sleeping against 4 attackers and it is better for society that their gun is not on the street.

[MrBenchley]

18. Another one of those spasms...

The really truly far out there...like somebody who would call HIMSELF "the gun industry".....seem unable to read anything without obsessing about guns...

Thus even though guns are not mentioned, it's GUNS GUNS GUNS!!

[TX-RAT]

19. Oh good grief.

Common sense in a gun thread. Whats this world coming to?

[minavasht]

20. There are many "ifs" in this world.

The only sure thing in this case is the victims did not have guns and they were killed with baseball bats.
To paraphrase the old saying : "Don't bring a baseball bat to a gun fight..."

[FeebMaster]

21. Maybe you should read the article.

"The victims, some of whom were sleeping, did not put up a fight or try to escape"

[enfield collector]

25. this thread should have been titled baseball bats in the news, just for c