Will there ever be a national Dem acceptable to pro gun people?

[billbuckhead]

I say never. Why bother arguing this subject. The NRA crowd is not welcome in the Democratic party. Assault weapons are not welcome in the Democratic party. NRA whore Zell Miller is no longer welcome in the Democratic party.

[FeebMaster]

1. NRA NRA NRA NRA

Like a broken damn record.

[billbuckhead]

2. The NRA is impotent in the Democratic party. GET OVER IT!

O8)

[FeebMaster]

4. I am over it.

I've never been an NRA supporter.

[Union Thug]

49. Liberals need to form their own Gun Owners Association..

...F*** the NRA.

[JayS]

3. Rep. Dingell is one of my favorites. n/t

n/t

[OpSomBlood]

5. Keep telling everyone who isn't welcome in your vision of the Dem party.

Sooner or later, nobody will be welcome. And Bush gets re-elected.

[T Town Jake]

7. Exactly...

...and when that happens all we'll hear is that it's somehow the fault of the stars, they weren't aligned right that day or something, instead of the common sense fact that the gun control crowd has driven millions of otherwise loyal Democrats into the arms of the GOP, once AGAIN.

[billbuckhead]

10. The Supreme court, coup and voter fraud in Florida &Tennessee

aren't the stars being aligned right.

[JayS]

15. No they aren't. They are just examples of what happens...

...when your candidate picks a flawed campaign strategy.

[billbuckhead]

20. A flawed strategy that won Gore the most votes in Democratic history

Plus Gore really does believe, like most American do, that gun regulation is a good thing.

[OpSomBlood]

21. If "the most votes in Democratic history" = 48%...

...then Democratic history isn't too illustrious.

[JayS]

24. Well, Gore can believe anything he likes...

...there in Tennessee.

[T Town Jake]

26. Hilarious stuff...

...just too, too rich for my ticklish ribs.

1. "A flawed strategy that won Gore the most votes in Democratic history" - Yea, but guess who got 100% of the presidency, bill?

2. "Plus Gore really does believe, like most American do, that gun regulation is a good thing." - Hilarious. I guess his "purity" on guns really showed the GOP a thing or two, didn't it? Er, ummmm, wait...
Christ. Gore could have carried BOTH Tennessee & Arkansas had he quit carrying those slop buckets for the gun control crowd. And if he had, it wouldn't have mattered what shenanigans Bush & Co. had tried to pull down in Florida. But I won't hold my breath waiting on the gun control crowd to belly up to the bar and give us all a little mea culpa. They're too busy obsessing about who's fit to be a "real" Democrat...in the name of gun control. Keep up all the good work, guys. Karl Rove loves it.

[billbuckhead]

31. But it took a coup and the NRA approved the coup

A very good reason to passionately hate gun nuts. Gore might have lost Washington, Michigan and Pennsylvania where Republican women voted heavily for Gore. Karl Roves too busy trying to stay out of jail now.

[JayS]

58. Wow! I never knew the NRA was that powerful. Kerry had...

...better start kissing up to them and fast!

[beevul]

19. Wrong...

"and when that happens all we'll hear is that it's somehow the fault of the stars, they weren't aligned right..."

Wrong. All we'll hear is that its THE FAULT OF GUN OWNERS VOTING FOR THE OPPOSITION.

Over and over again.

[slackmaster]

6. John Kerry is acceptable to me

Because he's not George W. Bush.

[OpSomBlood]

8. My Dem nominee list, in order of preference:

1. Howard Dean
2. Bob Graham
3. Wesley Clark
4. John Edwards
5. Dick Gephardt
6. Dennis Kucinich
7. John Kerry
8. Carol Mosely-Braun
9. Joe Lieberman
10. Al Sharpton

So yeah, I'm voting for Kerry because he's not Bush.

[T Town Jake]

9. "why bother arguing this subject"...Hilarious

...in a thread YOU posted no less. Hilarious.

[billbuckhead]

11. Well fall inline behind the antiNRA candidate

and quit bitching.

[OpSomBlood]

12. What kind of Democrat tells people to "fall in line"?

That's about the least "democratic" thing I've ever heard.

[billbuckhead]

13. Tough

O8)

[JayS]

14. Zeig Heil!

[billbuckhead]

16. Pathetic, but what does one expect from NRAer's. Get over it.

I bet the vicePresidential candidate is also antiNRA. Like Wes Clark said, "If you want an assault rifle, join the military".

[JayS]

17. Sorry, I'm a history buff and concentrate on the WWII era. When...

...you issued your dictatorial command I guess I got confused.

I'm not sure what Clark is talking about there. What the military uses and what I can buy are two different things. Perhaps he was misquoted. As a military man he should be expected to know the difference.

[OpSomBlood]

18. I can't think of a single army in the world that issues semi-auto rifles.

But keep blurring that "assault rifle" line.

[billbuckhead]

23. Here's Wes Clarks's quote

I have got 20 some odd guns in the house. I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them. Source: Interview on CNN Crossfire Jun 25, 2003

<http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Wesley_Clark_Gun_Control.htm>

[JayS]

25. So we have Clark admitting he does not know the difference...

...between what firearms the AWB applies to and what weapons are used by the U.S. military? That is scary! Let me go scratch him off my list of possible VP material.

[billbuckhead]

27. The quote has been out there for WHOLE YEAR and you never heard it?

Why do few of the gun nuts know anything about what our candidates stand for. Could it be because the J/PS forum is mostly NRA astroturf or because you are really not paying any attention?

[FeebMaster]

29. Who doesn't know what the candidates stand for?

Considering they all basically stood for the same things it's not exactly difficult.

[OpSomBlood]

36. Calling us NRA shills is pretty childish...

...and is rather reminiscent of another frequent J/PS poster. It certainly doesn't help your cause much.

Anyhow, I heard this Clark quote as he was saying it. It sure sounds catchy, but I am also a pretty bothered by the fact that the former Supreme Commander of NATO doesn't know the difference between an Army-issue M-16 and a civilian semi-auto rifle...most notably the way they work.

[billbuckhead]

38. Wes Clark's quote reflects the disgust the majority of Americans

feel for the unlimited right to weapons crowd. In all seriousness, why are you on this board if the Democratic party's nominee's position on weapons regulation is so abhorrent to you? The only reason I can think of is to cause trouble for our candidates. The primary is over, the pro gun candidate got his head handed to him. Get over it, fall in line behind Kerry or go somewhere else.

[OpSomBlood]

39. I'm on this board because I'm a Democrat.

And again, telling us to shut up and "fall in line" on an issue we believe strongly in pretty much contradicts every facet of a democratic society.

The biggest problem with the AWB is that the internal mechanical characteristics of a so-called "assault weapon" are exactly the same as every other semi-auto firearm. It establishes a very dangerous precendent which could lead to a ban on all semi-auto guns.

Which I'm sure sounds like a great idea to some people. But pardon us for expressing our dissent. Some people don't like being ordered to "fall in line" on a stance they disagree with.

[billbuckhead]

41. The unregulated weapons crowd had it's chance in the primary

That's democracy. If Howard Dean couldn't win the day for you, no one can. Start another party, the democratic party is against private ownership of assault weapons.

[slackmaster]

43. Howard Dean wasn't for unregulated weapons

Neither am I, nor most of your other pro-RKBA fellow Democrats here, billbuckhead.

We're here. We're vocal. We're not going away just to please you. Get used to it.

[OpSomBlood]

46. Then the Democratic party is against the intent of the Second Amendment.

And if that's the case, I'll gladly leave the party and be independent.

As will a lot of other people.

And the Democrats will keep losing elections.

[billbuckhead]

51. Bye

:D The 2nd amendment is absolutely worthless for protecting ones rights from the government, that AssKKKroft is so for it is damning proof.

[OpSomBlood]

53. Keep reveling in how many people you can drive out of the party.

That's a surefire winning election strategy.

If the Second Amendment is "absolutely worthless" for protecting individual rights from the government, why is it in the Bill of Rights? Why is it second behind the freedom of speech? Which other amendments in the Bill of Rights guarantee inalienable rights to the government?

[JayS]

61. "unregulated weapons crowd"

There is that group again. Why would they care about Dean?

[slackmaster]

40. The Democratic party's nominee???

What month is this?

Did I miss the convention?

Where's the platform?

:freak:

[JayS]

60. "the unlimited right to weapons crowd"

Who is this group? I've never heard of them.

Back on the farm we would occasionally get some rotten eggs in with the good ones. We didn't shut down the farm over it though. We just tossed the bad ones out and went on living. This is why many of us refused to jump ship to the Republicans when it became clear that the Democratic Party no longer had anyone at the helm and no direction to go in even if it did.

We try to throw out the rotten eggs, get some competent people up on the bridge and give them a direction to go in. We may or may not be successful but it is not whether you win or lose but rather that you showed up for the fight.

[T Town Jake]

64. "the unlimited right to weapons crowd"...

..."Who is this group? I've never heard of them" - Me neither. But the gun control crowd has apparently run into oodles and oodles of them...
Where, one wonders? They don't go to gun shows, or hang out in venues where they're likely to encounter large numbers of gun owners, and I'm pretty sure they're not going "undercover" at any of the annual NRA conventions...wait, oh, right! I forgot.. There's an obscure forum on some pro gun website out there where a few people posted some offensive things...yep! There ya are! All gun owners are GOP-loving scum! Don't you grasp the logic? No? Well, then...you must not be a REAL Democrat, fer sure...
/Sarcasm

[slackmaster]

42. General Clark knows the difference

He chose to pander to those who wish to try to hold onto the "gun control" issue through appeals to emotion.

[JayS]

59. It's called sarcasm Bill.

[OpSomBlood]

48. In retrospect, that IS pretty funny.

He starts a thread asking a question, then in that very post says, "why bother arguing the subject."

I'm going to start one like this:

Topic: What do you think of John Kerry?
Post: He's a douchebag. Why do we even need to talk about this?

[Columbia]

22. Never? Why bother arguing? Fine

Guess you are one who likes to lose elections.

I'm not.

[billbuckhead]

28. When Kerry and the Dems take back the government , the J/PS forum will be

in mourning.

[FeebMaster]

30. If Bush renews the AWB

will the gun grabbers be excited? Happy? Will they vote for him?

[billbuckhead]

32. Republican women might and you gun nuts have no one else to vote for

Rove will probably try it in desperation as the gender gap is slipping away to an insurtmountable margin.

[FeebMaster]

33. Why would I vote for a Republican?

It seems to me they pass more gun control than the Democrats do when in office. Maybe it's people who want more gun control who are voting for the wrong party.

[T Town Jake]

35. No....

...we'll be rejoicing that the gun control crowd and their overflowing slop buckets didn't cost us yet ANOTHER election.

[Liberal Classic]

34. I would say this is an unfair question because...

...this assumes anyone who subscribes to the individual rights interpretation of the second amendment must be single issue voters. There are as many different positions as there are people, so in my opinion it is unfair to pose such a black and white question.

Why bother arguing this subject.

As a silly question, get a silly answer. :)

The NRA crowd is not welcome in the Democratic party. Assault weapons are not welcome in the Democratic party. NRA whore Zell Miller is no longer welcome in the Democratic party.

My question to you is, should someone like me be welcome on Democratic Underground?

[billbuckhead]

37. Personally I wish DU did away with the J/PS forum

I think it's NRA astroturf trying to subvert the board and the Democratic party.

At some point your either with us or against us.

[slackmaster]

44. Go whine about it in the ATM forum

At some point your either with us or against us.

Is not being against George W. Bush and willing to vote for whatever candidate the Democratic Party chooses at the upcoming convention good enough for you, billbuckhead?

I notice you've skipped this year's party convention and already chosen Senator Kerry as our nominee. Consistent with your motions to suppress the sharing of ideas you've also presumed what the party's official position on the AWB issue will be.

I respect your right to express your personal opinion, but you do not speak for the Democratic Party or even for a majority of Democrats. We must all be given the opportunity to express our ideas in an open forum even if YOU don't like them.

[Liberal Classic]

54. I post in other sections...

...not just Justice/Public Safety. But that really didn't answer my question.

At some point your either with us or against us.

This sounds a lot like George Bush's slogan: either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.

Am I the sort of terrorist you are against? I refer to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x64358#64396

[billbuckhead]

57. You either vote Kerry or you help Bush, sometimes things are black & white

Organizations and individuals who fight for more better weapons are contributing to terrorism.

[JayS]

63. "more better weapons "

Who is fighting for "more better" weapons?

There is nothing wrong with making Kerry work for our vote and make him think about whether or not he wants to run in a nationwide race using a New England campaign strategy. He should have plenty of time to work for our vote...since he has not been going to work except maybe to pick up his paycheck.

[slackmaster]

67. Bill picks up on the latest right-wing media Bogeyman

TERRORISM! ACK! RUN AWAY! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

:freak:

[JayS]

62. "either with us or against us"

Cool! A George Bush quote used on Democratic Underground! Will wonders never cease. :)

[Free_Thinker]

45. HOWARD DEAN

With the candidacy of Dean I could talk to disaffected Democrats who voted for the Smirking Chimp over the gun issue. With Kerrey I can't win the point. I never understood how we went from Hubert Humprhey's understanding of the issue to what it is today.

Get an ECONOMIC DEMOCRACY and violent crimes will fall, period.

The elites want to blame tools instead of the conditions that capitalism has created. Fix the economic system and all else falls in place. Livable conditions create people with alternatives to violence.

Now the Swiss, all their faults aside, had a situation where economic deprivation was not a problem, so with all these full auto guns around nobody was slaughtering their neighbors. In fact they had the lowest murder rate in the Western European nations.

So it isn't the availablity of knives or guns or gasoline or fertilizer or motor vehicles (yes people in America have used cars to commit mass murder) but rather what kind of society is the government fostering? If you allow capitalist pigs to run the society don't be surprised if you reap a violent and unjust and inequitable society.

[DavidMS]

47. I couldn't have said it better.

N/T

[billbuckhead]

50. That's desperation if you have to use Switzerland as an example

Why don't you investigate their gun laws? I bet their much stiffer than America's. Capitalism is just a tool itself, a theoretical economic model that can never totally be actualized. The problem with guns is that they make killing easy and glamorous.

[billbuckhead]

52. If the gun crowd has all this political power why did Dean flop?

The answer is that the they don't have that much power. The most defining thing about why people vote the way they do is religion, race and gender.

[slackmaster]

56. Dean lacks the polished behavior needed for national politics

His body language, facial expressions, and verbal outbursts doomed him IMO.

[billbuckhead]

70. When did someone use a car by itself to commit mass murder?

I'm sure this just more bullshit. I've come to find no group lies and exagerrates more than gunmongers.

[Bowline]

55. Absolutely!

As soon as a good liberal candidate comes along who will state openly and publicly that he, or she, supports the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.

[billbuckhead]

65. Won't happen because the gun debate is really about race

Since most of the debate about guns is code for race and gender, the idea of major national liberal NRA type candidate won't happen. If a liberal progun candidate was such a super idea, it would have happened. The collapse of the Dean candidacy over the Confederate flag-guns-race is an example that a progun liberal is an oxymoran.

[T Town Jake]

66. Putting aside...

...that silly bilge about the debate over guns being a "code for race and gender," I'll tell you this: had there been a liberal PRO GUN candidate in 2000, he/she would be sitting in the White House right now. And on the way to a landslide re election.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the day the Democratic Party quits carrying those slop buckets for the gun control crowd is the day it becomes the Majority Party in this country for the next one hundred years.

[billbuckhead]

68. The closest to what you wanted was Roy Barnes

and the NRA stabbed him in the back by staying out the Confederate flag debacle. Once again, it comes back to race.

[slackmaster]

69. Oh, that dastardly NRA rears its ugly head again

By staying OUT of a discussion that has nothing to do with guns.

Oh, the humanity. Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?

:freak: