Its time for another DU dungeon mythbusters!

[beevul]

"Firearms can be made from scratch in the home/garage with materials procured legally in just about any town with more than just a quickymart."

Truth, or myth?


For my part, I submit this:



SPECIFICATIONS’

Weapon Type - Machine Pistol
Action - Open bolt fully automatic
Calibre - .32/.380
Capacity - 16/14
OAL - 18 ¾
Barrel Length - 9"
Weight unloaded - 4lbs 9oz
Sights - None
Safety - None
Construction materials - Tube, Collars, Nuts and Bolts
Material availability - Good
Tools required - Hand only

Purpose - Home underground manufacture for defence and resistance

I believe it to be true that Firearms can be made from scratch in the home/garage with materials procured legally in about any town with more than just a quickymart, but I will post no more detail about this example. Anyone who really wants can read that site and see the rest themselves.

Other evidence folks?

[CO Liberal]

1. Here's Another Myth

The Nuts Ruining America is a civil right organization.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!

(Sorry - can't type that line without laughing....)

[beevul]

2. Nothing to...

say on topic CO?

[CO Liberal]

16. I Believe I Was On Topic

You presented one myth, and I countered with another.

[Township75]

3. Here's one more myth....

States that pass Right To Carry laws will wake up to find their streets flowing with blood.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That one is almost as funny as the last Million Moron March turnout numbers...which are better described as BWWWWWWWWAAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrBenchley]

13. LOL!!!

[Wickerman]

4. Do no speak badly of the quickymart, Apu would not like to have to

correct you. The Quickymart does not contain the materials to build weaponry. You can find, however, luscious heat-lamp dogs, chewy frozen microwave burritos, and the ever popular squishee.

[Township75]

5. And beef jerky which is 95% rectum free.

.

[beevul]

7. Lol

"You can find, however, luscious heat-lamp dogs, chewy frozen microwave burritos, and the ever popular squishee."

Yes, but the squishee machine IS a weapon in its own right!! :evilgrin:

[DoNotRefill]

6. I've got another one, very interesting....

but I can't post it. If somebody wants to post it for me, I'll send it to you.

The story behind the gun is that it was made in Northern Ireland by the PIRA out of, get this, the leg of a lawn chair. No kidding. The pic was taken at the British Pattern Room when it still existed.

BTW, the STEn submachinegun was designed to be made anyplace that had an automobile shop during WWII. That's why the receiver is exactly the size of automobile muffler pipe, since that's what it was designed to be made from.

[FeebMaster]

8. I once heard the claim that someone in prison constructed

a complete STEN gun including magazines. No bullets, though. I've never been able to find a link so it might just be a tall tale.

[DoNotRefill]

9. well...

I've got a photo of this one. It's pretty ingenious, and is very "STEn-ish"

There was a case not terribly long ago of an inmate on Death Row in Virginia who was somehow able to get a S&W revolver into his cell. It was found after they executed him, concealed in his manual typewriter.

[tomreedtoon]

10. A really stupid concept.

I heard about things like this when I was a kid, and my idiot brother kept buying the NRA's magazine. It essentially said that gun control was futile, because criminals were smart enough to make their own guns from commonly-available materials.

Yes, they can. But not everyone can. You have to have a degree of mechanical aptitude. In the United States, where the intelligence has dropped so low that people think "American Idol" is a great show, you might find one in a thousand people who could make a slugthrower and not have it blow up in his face on the first shot.

It's a stupid argument intended to prevent any kind of control of guns, and encourage the sale of mass-manufactured firearms to idiots. I'd like to take a random selection of NRA types, put them in front of those "convenience store items," and see if any of them could make a workable firearm and fire it without losing half the fingers on their hands.

[DoNotRefill]

11. There are a fair number of Dremel-tool type people out there...

who can indeed make a functional firearm. Remember zip guns?

[Lamorat]

12. harder gun control

Will simply make the black market bigger. Ban guns, and it'll be more homemade/imported ones available.

The gun genie's been out of the bottle for almost 500 years now. It's ridiculous to try to put something so simple, and so useful for defense, out of the legal market.

[7th_Sephiroth]

38. i know a guy

who has a small machine shop, he made a perfect duplicate of a MP-5

[MrBenchley]

14. Hilariously...

the same "pro-gun democrats" laboring so hard to convince us that Max Mugger can whip up a gun from scratch using common household items want to pretend that it is nigh unto impossible for anyone to convert assault weapons to automatic fire...although kits and instruction books are sold both on the internet and at gun shows.

[Lamorat]

17. I assume

By 'assault weapon' you mean 'semi-auto rifle'.. Right?

[MrBenchley]

18. Lam-o-rat

[Lamorat]

21. Thanks

For telling me that you don't know what it means. Cool.

[slackmaster]

20. He doesn't know what he means

In http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=55681&mesg_id=55811&page= MrBenchley attempted to identify some "assault weapons", but he was wrong on 4 out of 5. Three of the Uzis are machineguns, and the Maadi AK clone is a post-ban (i.e. not an assault weapon).

[iverglas]

22. this remains beyond my ken

I doubt that, if offered 5 baggies of white powder, I could identify which of them contained cocaine.

Nonetheless, I have a fair degree of confidence that experts, working with a statutory definition of cocaine, could do so.

Nor could I, offhand, define "cocaine" in a manner that would be suitable for legislative and law enforcement purposes.

Nonetheless, I have a fair degree of confidence that the definition used for those purposes is just fine.

Why would it bother me, or anyone else, that I couldn't do either thing?

Note that if I argue that possession of cocaine should not be illegal, I don't spend must time nattering about the statutory definition of it. And if I *were* of the view that the statutory definition of "cocaine" was problematic, and believed that the possession of cocaine should not be illegal, I still don't know why I'd spend much time nattering about the definition. Now, if I believed that the possession of cocaine should be illegal, but were of the view that the statutory definition was problematic, I imagine that I'd propose improvements to the definition.

Which is it that you're doing, again?

.

[slackmaster]

23. Apples to oranges

Bags of white powder that require a chemical test to identify vs. firearms that can be classified by inspection and/or a peek at their specifications.

Now, if I believed that the possession of cocaine should be illegal, but were of the view that the statutory definition was problematic, I imagine that I'd propose improvements to the definition.

Which is it that you're doing, again?

No, my point is that MrBenchley doesn't know what he's talking about. He gave 5 examples of weapons that would supposedly become available when the AW ban expires this September. He was wrong on 4 out of 5, and possibly on the fifth because it can't be imported due to a 1989 executive order issued by President George H. W. Bush.

The statutory definition of "assault weapon" is clear enough to people who bother to read it and have enough basic understanding of firearms. But most people get their information through propaganda.

[MrBenchley]

29. Too fucking funny....

"He was wrong on 4 out of 5"
And no doubt slack will be able to link to the thread where this happ....can't even type that with a straight face.

"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"
"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"
"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[slackmaster]

31. You want a link, you've got it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=55681&mesg_id=55811&page=

The Uzi, Mini Uzi, and Micro Uzi are machineguns, so they won't become easier to acquire when the AWB dies.

The Egyptian Maadi rifle is AWB-compliant, i.e. it is not an assault weapon. It's available right now, and will not suddenly become MORE available when the AWB goes away.

The Uzi Pistol is an assault weapon but cannot be imported due to Bush I's executive order.

[MrBenchley]

39. And I turn out to be 100% correct

Just as I was when I said the "progun democrats" were peddling guns for the blind earlier.

[slackmaster]

58. No, you were 80% INCORRECT

Everyone can see it but you, or maybe you can but for some odd reason can't admit your obvious error.

[OpSomBlood]

60. "Everyone can see it but you" is pretty funny...

...when talking about a guy who refuses to acknowledge the difference between "blind" and "legally blind."

[slackmaster]

61. I think "refuses to acknowledge" is the best description of the phenomenon

I'm pretty sure MrBenchley is intelligent and well-educated. Some people just can't admit their errors. I wouldn't presume to speculate as to why that might be the case, but the pattern is clear.

[Columbia]

62. Is he?

[slackmaster]

63. That must be his alter-ego who can't write to save his life

Those columns are as boring as they are predictable.

Ironically Robert Benchley was a fine writer and humorist. I've read a couple of anthologies of his political satire. It's lively and cutting yet never mean-spirited.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-7778982-1756050

None of Robert Benchley's works are in the public domain, so you won't find anything but brief quotes available online.

[OpSomBlood]

64. "It's lively and cutting yet never mean-spirited."

Is MrBenchley's user name supposed to be a reference to Robert Benchley? If so, that's pretty funny.

[slackmaster]

65. He's mentioned Robert Benchley several times

Citing a quote that just happens to be my signature line.

I doubt that the user name refers to Peter Benchley, author of Jaws.

:freak:

[MrBenchley]

69. That pretty much sums you yobbos up...

lots of money for guns, not a penny for books...

[slackmaster]

71. Argumentum ad hominem

Personal attack, another logical fallacy.

[OpSomBlood]

73. Funny, I own about 300 books.

I guess he wasn't talking about me specifically.

[MrBenchley]

78. Too too funny....

[MrBenchley]

67. Gee, slack, I was 100% correct

but thanks for playing...

[slackmaster]

68. Broken record fallacy

Keep saying it over and over and it just might become true.

Be sure to click your heels together three times every time you say it.

:freak:

[MrBenchley]

70. Speaking of over and over....

"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"
"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"
"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

[slackmaster]

72. You've got it, with quotes

MrBenchley claims smokeless powders used in Europe contain taggants. They don't.

"...about the assertion that taggants (such as are used in Europe) would make guns explode?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=44507&mesg_id=44563&page=

Rather than acknowledge that the Pink Pistols is a genuine pro-gun group of gay people, he'd rather believe that the Roman Catholic Church supports gay rights:

"A pastoral letter released today by the U.S. Catholic Conference encouraging families to accept their gay loved ones and reaffirming the basic human rights of gay people was welcomed by the Human Rights Campaign as an important step forward on the road to ending discrimination based on sexual orientation."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20608&mesg_id=20675&page=

He claims proposed Iraqi constitution says "All gun owners must be registered and all guns licensed." It doesn't.

Under Iraq's proposed Constitution... ...All gun owners must be registered and all guns licensed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=49018&mesg_id=49135&page=

MrBenchley claimed that kits to convert semi-automatic firearms into fully automatic machineguns are legal (thanks to efforts by the gun lobby), and that anyone can buy one at a gun show.

Are you trying to tell us conversion kits are illegal? It happens that the gunbb lobby fought tooth and nail to make them legal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x50058#53363

Of course, that isn't true at all. See http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter37.txt

MrBenchley admits he hasn't even read a magazine that he's criticized repeatedly, and even posts images of its cover.

And who really fucking NEEDS to be told that a gun magazine for kids (with ads marketing guns to kids) is a crappy, irresponsible idea?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=55135&mesg_id=55138

And my all-time favorite, MrBenchley posted two links that were supposed to identify five "assault weapons",

"Uzis and AK-47's are not semi-automatic."
From gun merchant SecurityArms.com...

"Maadi AK-47 (Egyption)
Its caliber is 7.62x39mm, and it is semi automatic. "

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1635.htm

From gun merchant "Magnificent World"

"UZI SPECIFICATION
Models
UZI SMG
Mini UZI SMG
Micro UZI SMG
UZI Pistol
Ammunition
9mm Parabellum
Operation
Blowback firing from open bolt position (OBP)
Blowback firing from closed bolt position (CBP or OBP)
Blowback firing from CBP
Mode of firing
Semi-automatic, Automatic
Semi-automatic "

http://www.info.com.ph/~mwgs/specs_3.htm

I'll take my playmates ovber the scum the gun nuts associate with any day....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=55681&mesg_id=55811&page=

But he was wrong on 4 out of 5. Three of them are machineguns and the fourth is a post-ban semiautomatic AK variant which is perfectly legal under the AW ban.

MrBenchley claimed he typed an 88-word quote from a newspaper published 10 weeks earlier from memory with 100% accuracy, when he actually took the quote from a pro-RKBA source and didn't want anyone to read the rest of the article - http://www.2ndamendment.com/Miscellaneous/News/20040227-05.htm

Actually I didn't feel like paying the Kansas City Star for an archived article, especially since I remembered it 100% correctly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=56802&mesg_id=56915

And MrBenchley thinks 2003 - 12 = 1994.

12 years (ending in 2003) would coincide with the passage of the Brady law... (ending in 2003 added by slackmaster for clarity - see the thread if you don't believe me)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=57473&mesg_id=57575

Edited for spellling.

[Columbia]

74. Good compilation you got there

The truth shall set you free.

[slackmaster]

75. iverglas attacked one of my points yesterday

But she based her whole wordy argument on a false premise, so I didn't bother reading the whole thing.

[Columbia]

76. Wordy? No way!

;)

[OpSomBlood]

77. We don't call her "evertext" for nothing.

She certain lives up to billing.

[MrBenchley]

79. And that's why I'm quoting and laughing

and you're paraphrasing and pouting....

[slackmaster]

80. Anyone is welcome to follow my links and compare them to the quotes

In post #72 and judge for yourself which one of us is telling the truth here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=58782&mesg_id=59608

[Lamorat]

24. So you don't mind

vague laws that ban things for meaningless reasons. That's nice.

The AWB has no effect on crime. It can't. An 'assault weapon' is nothing more than a semi-auto rifle.

Your drug analogy makes no sense in this regard.

[iverglas]

26. so

So you don't mind vague laws that ban things for meaningless reasons. That's nice.

... you don't mind making statements about other people for which you have no evidence and that you know or have no excuse not to know, given that you have the evidence you need for the purpose in front of your face, are completely false.

That's despicable and cowardly, but par for the course.


Your drug analogy makes no sense in this regard.

Your yet-another "moon is made of green cheese" claim doesn't even contain an idea that could be assessed on the "making sense" scale.

Funny how you find the US assault weapons legislation "vague" and slackmaster has no problem with it.

.

[MrBenchley]

30. lam-o-rat

says it all, doesn't it?

[mosin]

28. "Which is it that you're doing, again?"

Note that if I argue that possession of cocaine should not be illegal, I don't spend must time nattering about the statutory definition of it. And if I *were* of the view that the statutory definition of "cocaine" was problematic, and believed that the possession of cocaine should not be illegal, I still don't know why I'd spend much time nattering about the definition. Now, if I believed that the possession of cocaine should be illegal, but were of the view that the statutory definition was problematic, I imagine that I'd propose improvements to the definition.

Actually, I believe neither gun possession nor drug possession should be illegal. The definitions are secondary.

[OpSomBlood]

25. They fail because they have no desire to learn.

As FeebMaster has so eloquently pointed out, the anti-gun lobby fails over and over because they choose not to understand the technical details of the machines they want to ban.

To them, knowing the difference between a "clip" and a "magazine" or between "semi-automatic" and "select fire" is insignificant gun porn. They think that by inventing terms like "assault weapon," they can just blanket all of the firearms they deem frightening.

The Assault Weapons Ban is a prime example of this. They call out a list of cosmetic features which have little to do with the mechanical operation of the weapon. Then, they whine and cry about "loopholes" when the gun makers remove these features in full compliance of the law as written.

They write a bad law that demonstrated a lack of technical knowledge of firearms, and ended up not really accomplishing anything except artificially inflating the price of pre-ban magazines.

[slackmaster]

19. Apples-to-oranges comparison and a myth

It would be easier to build a Sten receiver from scratch than to convert a semiautomatic AR-15 to selective-fire. The Sten mechanism is much simpler.

...kits and instruction books are sold both on the internet and at gun shows.

MrBenchley is misinformed. Kits to convert semiautos to automatic fire are not legal, and are not sold at gun shows. The parts kits that are sold at gun shows (and by mail order BTW) do not contain all of the pieces needed to build a working firearm. The one part that is ALWAYS omitted from parts kits is the one with the serial number: The receiver, frame, right side plate, etc.; the part that is legally a firearm and usually the most complex and difficult piece to manufacture.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter37.txt

[Hammie]

36. Actually both are correct

An open bolt submachine gun is relatively easy to make. The low pressure of the pistol cartridge make a simple blow back design feasible and the firing pin can be as simple as a small nipple on the bolt face.

A so-called "assault weapon" is generally a rifle caliber arm that fires from a closed bolt. It is reasonably difficult to convert one to a full auto weapon. The rifles are generally engineered in such a way that simple measures such as disabling the disconnector cause the weapon to malfunction rather than go full auto. Converting them to full auto requires a similar level of expertise as creating a sub machine gun from scratch.

The take away is that anyone that could convert a semi-auto rifle to full auto could probably make his own sub-machine gun too.

[mosin]

27. "one in a thousand"

Even if your "one in a thousand people" is accurate, you ignore the fact that the one-in-a-thousand people such as myself will make them and sell them to others. Instead of mobile meth labs, you'll have mobile gunsmithies -- only without the smell, the chemicals, and the risk of explosion.

[library_max]

40. Ah. You've made them, then.

So maybe you can give me some specs on how well these homemade guns you've made work - range, accuracy, rate of fire, number of rounds before they jam or crap out, etc.

[mosin]

49. I said I could...

not that I had. I've assembled an AR-15 from a parts kits and an 80% receiver -- that's legally considered manufacturing a firearm. (All perfectly legal, since I didn't build it for sale.) I've cast my own bullets. I reload my own ammunition.

But I've never made a firearm completely from scratch. They're too easy to buy right now. :)

But I have no doubt that I could build Mr. Luty's open bolt submachine gun if I had need to.

[MrBenchley]

15. More like a swing and a myth, beev....

(snicker)

[beevul]

32. This should upgrade the myth to truth status....

"Guns found in Mtn. Institution"

By Darren McDonald

"Homemade guns forced a lock down and thorough search of Agassiz's Mountain Institution this week."

"The weapons and several bullets were discovered by staff in one of the medium security prison's buildings Wednesday. Prisoners were immediately held in their cells and all visitation has since been put on hold."

"Investigators were still combing the institution as of Thursday's press deadline. According to prison spokesman Greg Fortnum, knives are more commonly found, but guns are certainly a concern."

"All a prisoner needs to make their own gun is metal tubing and a spring to strike the end of a bullet. Fortnum said homemade gun tubes are sometimes as short as three centimetres or as long as a regular gun's barrel. Springs come in all shapes and sizes, with mousetraps acting as a common trigger device."

http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/issues04/043204/news/043204nn2.html

If PRISONERS can make guns in a PRISON, where time, materials, and actions are tightly watched, highly regulated, and compared to the outside world - very scarce, how can anyone believe that guns can't be made RELATIVELY easy by people outside prisons who have none of those restrictions?

I would say there can be no dispute at this point, guns CAN be made relatively easy by just about anyone , just about anywhere - IF they have the intent.


OT, but aren't guns banned in prisons? Isn't a prison a good example of a "prohibition on guns" environment?

[library_max]

41. Waidaminute, the bullet is propelled with a SPRING?

Where, outside of Looney Tunes, is that a gun? Wile E. Coyote would love it, I'm sure, but is this really a substitute for Smith & Wesson, etc.?

[MrSandman]

42. I think he meant the primer...

instead of the end of the bullet. Good catch.

[library_max]

45. So how does the thing work?

All you need to make it is a tube, a spring, and a mousetrap for the trigger. That's how it was described. So how does the GD thing work? How could it possibly work?

[mosin]

48. How does it work?

I assume the prison zip gun would still use normal loaded ammunition. So all you need is a barrel, a bolt face, and something pointy to hit the primer in the cartridge. The primer ignites the powder. The burning powder creates expanding gas that pushes the bullet out of the cartridge and down the barrel.

Ammunition would be easy to smuggle in. Ammunition is easy to make at home. I make thousands of rounds per year, but I can't see getting the components in prison.

[DoNotRefill]

52. Simple.

You use the tube for the barrel and chamber. You use the mousetrap for the triggger and firing pin. Insert the bullet into the chamber, mount the tube over the mousetrap, bend the arm of the mousetrap so it has a point to strike the primer, and voila! Instant pistol.

You can make a shotgun with two pieces of metal water pipe (one slightly larger than the other) an end cap for the larger pipe, and a nail or metal screw. Take the narrower pipe, put a shotgun shell in one end, cap the larger pipe, drive the nail or screw the screw through the center of the endcap, put the little pipe in the bigger pipe with the shotgun shell at the bottom, and you've got an instant slam-fire shotgun.


`|````|
`|````|
`|````|
`|````|----A
`|````|
`|````|
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||-----B
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||
||````||
||__s_||
| `````|
|__^__|


This is what it would look like. The s is the end of the skinny pipe, and is where the shotgun shell would be. The ^ is the nail driven through the endcap. The shotgun shell would be held in place by the rim of the shell connecting with the opening of the skinny pipe. To fire it, you'd place one hand at "A" and one hand at "B". Point it in the direction you want it to fire, and then slam the "A" hand backwards, which would force the primer of the shotgun shell against the nail, which would discharge the weapon.

Total cost: under $5.
Parts availability: any hardware store for the pipes, endcap, and nail. Any ammunition retailer for the shotgun shell.
Total time to manufacture: Under 15 minutes, not counting shopping time.
Number of manufacturing steps: two.
Tools needed: Hammer or screwdriver.
Service life of firearm: several hundred rounds, minimum
Reloading time: under 5 seconds
Method of reloading: Manual. Remove tube A, pull spent hull out with your fingers, insert fresh shell, reinsert tube A, ready to fire.

On edit: tried to fix diagram, ignore the ` s, I used them for spacing.

[MrBenchley]

43. You expected a rubber band?

Guess that's another thwing and a myth by our "enthusiasts"

[slackmaster]

59. The US Army's Improvised Munitions Handbook has designs

for improvised guns that use rubber bands to power the firing pin.

[solinvictus]

33. Manchuria and WW2

During the occupation of Manchuria by the Japanese, individual Chinese manufactured Mauser K98 rifles and C96 semi-automatic pistols with back yard forges and hand tools. A Mauser gunsmith/dealer in Birmingham had several examples of hand made Chinese weapons from that era. They were all functional and had served during the resistance and civil war. Personally, I'd be afraid of the rifle due to pressure issues, but they worked against the Japanese.
That machine pistol as an example is an accurate example of a weapon made in a home shop. The British Sten is the prime example of this as it's basically a sheet metal receiver, bolt group, and a barrel. All of these can be made with minimal machining and basic mechanical skill.

[beevul]

35. I neglected...

to post the link in the original post...

http://www.thehomegunsmith.com

It appears, strangely enough, that the machinegun in the picture, was made by one of our fellow RKBA'ers across the big pond. His story makes for an interesting read, though, he definitely got the short end of the stick from the authorities there, for being an "enthusiast", and for his views as one.

"So as to allow you to get a ‘feel’ for the subject of homemade firearms, the following pages illustrate how a reasonably light weight and portable Machine gun was assembled from readily available ‘Off the shelf’ materials and components. No lathe or milling machine was required or used."

"The firearm that can truthfully be described as homemade should be one built using the type of hand tools and materials that the average individual could easily acquire."

[Hammie]

34. True

I say not a myth. Open bolt submachine guns are the simplest class of firearm to construct.

[slackmaster]

37. Spot on

And BATFE regulations prohibit open-bolt semiautomatic designs.

[library_max]

46. You've made one, then. One that works. Right?

Otherwise, how can you know?

[Hammie]

51. WTF?

That is the stupidest question that I've ever been asked.


Let me put it this way... I know it the same way I know the Schrödinger equation can be solved analyticaly for the electron energy states of a hydrogen atom even though I personally haven't done that either.

[library_max]

44. Well it sure looks like a machine pistol.

At least, to a non-gun enthusiast like me.

But does it shoot? What are the stats? What's its range, its rate, its accuracy? How many rounds did it fire before it crapped out?

The zip guns of old were called that because that's what they were worth - zip. They were marginally better than throwing bullets at people. They were about as likely to blow up in your face as to shoot properly.

Pictures don't tell the story here.

1) Do these guns really work? Are they really in any way (other than looks) comparable with commercially-available manufactured guns?

2) How many people can really make them from scratch so they work? Anybody on this thread, for starters? And please don't tell me you CAN make one if you've never done it.

[FeebMaster]

47. It obviously works since the British government threw

the guy who designed it and built one in prison.

Here's the link again for you to not bother reading:

http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/

[beevul]

50. Who are you trying to kid Feeb...

They just ran the poor guy through "the ringer" for the fun of it. :evilgrin:

"The author of "Expedient Homemade Firearms" built a machine gun in the course of writing the book. For his pains he was sentenced to four years imprisonment. Although the judge said he accepted there was no criminal intent in his constructing the weapon, he would make an example of him as a warning to others. In prison his original low security classification was upgraded two levels in the space of a very few weeks, and throughout his incarceration he was vilified by the authorities who of course "new better" than professionally qualified people. They regarded him as a potential psycopath because of his refusal to toe the line and agree with the official views on gun ownership."

"A panel of the parole board considered your application (for parole) on 24th. March 2000 and found you not suitable for early release on licence. The panel gave the following reasons. Mr.Luty was convicted of the manufacture of a firearm and possession of ammunition (6 rounds!)………. there is little evidence to indicate that Mr.Luty has fully addressed the causes and consequences of the offences(1) and although he states he accepts responsibility, still describes the crimes as "an innocent project". Mr.Luty continues to maintain very strong views about UK gun laws to which he is opposed. Report writers identify considerable apprehension over his lack of insight and concern over the wider implications of his offences and his continuing views over gun ownership and use."

"The nature of your book and the views expressed in it are precisely what makes you a risk to the public. They (the views) lie at the core of why you were sent to prison in the first place. Those views are still firmly held and they make you a danger to the public."

"C.M.A.,Governor"

Poor guy sure was made an example of alright.


http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/readthis.html

[billbuckhead]

53. These guns are pieces of shit that would shoved up the anus of it's user

If these "guns" are what the starship troopers of future have to face then the gun nuts come to defend "America" then they must withdraw their bogus claim that they could defend the Consitution with these worthless pieces of shit. No wonder the real gun freaks and "freeedom' fighters want Ak-47's and real assault weapons.

[FeebMaster]

54. Way to miss the point. (nt)

[DoNotRefill]

56. actually, Bill...

the pipe shotgun I talked about above isn't really meant to be fired by hand, it's best suited as a booby-trap, a "toe-popper on steroids." The idea is you use it to kill a soldier, then take his gear off of his body. Kind of like the Liberator pistol of WWII fame...

[slackmaster]

66. Starship troopers from the future always end up fighting with spears

Bows and arrows, clubs, knives, and other primitive weapons.

I know this is true because I saw it on Star Trek.

:freak:

[Columbia]

55. The only "danger" he posed was to the government

For standing up and refusing to be controlled.

He's a hero in my book.

[DoNotRefill]

57. it wasn't just standing up...

it was that he wrote a book that helped pass on his dangerous IDEAS.

Political prisoner, indeed!

[Wickerman]

81. locking

Just thought I would remind you all, this is the Justice/Public Safety Forum. Here we discuss Justice and, yep, that is right, Public Safety Issues. We don't need to discuss each other - stay freaking focused.

Go outside, work in the garden, shoot some guns or read a book - stop obsessing about those who don't agree with you.

If you don't have enough to do I have 1/4 ton of limestone that needs moved up the steep hill from the drive to the back yard, come over and help out for chrissakes!