We DIDN'T Get Kicked Out--It's A Boycott! That's the Ticket!

[MrBenchley]

No comment really needed...

"A group that pushed for approval of the state's new concealed weapons law is asking gun permit holders to boycott businesses that prohibit people from carrying hidden guns.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry lists the business on its Web site, www.ofcc.net .
The list includes more than 300 businesses, including the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland and the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton. "

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=1856335&nav=LQlCN0i0

[Dolomite]

1. Funny thing is - these boycotts actually work.

In Ohio and other states, Wal-Marts, Office Depots, Home Depots, and Boston Markets all came around pretty quickly to realize that the people that go to trouble of obtaining a CCW really aren't so bad afterall.

[MrBenchley]

2. Tee hee hee...

Is that like the "Cops see concealed weapons and realize we're the good guys" rubbish you "enthusiasts" were trying to peddle last week?

[OpSomBlood]

3. Tell me again, what percentage of gun crimes are committed by CCW holders?

Never mind the facts, I guess.

[MrBenchley]

4. Gee, op...I NEVER mind the facts, since they support what I say

That's why I don't have to rely on crap from right wing cesspools like the stentorian.

The last study I saw said "From 1996 to 2000, Texas concealed handgun license holders were arrested for weapon-related offenses at a rate 81 percent higher than that of the general population of Texas, aged 21 and older. "

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk4cont.htm

That's good enough for me and for most people...and obviously for the gun lobby too, since they're scurrying to hide CCW info from the general public in state after state.

[slackmaster]

7. Disregard the ridiculous VPC propaganda link

Here's the REAL information about Texas CHL holders:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

And here's a Gun-Grabber-to-English translation guide for newbies and lurkers:

http://www.turdwords.com/dictionary.cfm

[OpSomBlood]

48. Arrests vs. convictions.

Use a gun in self-defense, you get arrested. We've disspelled those "statistics" like 15 times already, yet you still have them programmed in your "CCW handy facts" file.

[MrBenchley]

49. You haven't dispelled a thing...

and at this point, I doubt any of the bullets for brains bunch ever will....

"Use a gun in self-defense, you get arrested"
Let's see....79 of these wowsers were arrested for rape or sexual assault. Were they doing that in self defense? Another 134 were arrested for sexual misconduct.

1,427 were arrested for dsriving while intoxicated or similar offenses...what were they defending themselves against?

332 arrested for robbery...were they stealing back something that was stolen from them?

404 were drug related offenses...what were they defending themselves against?

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk4one.htm

"On April 20, 2001, a fight broke out between graveyard shift employees of two food distribution companies. As the fight was ending, concealed handgun license holder Farhad George, 29, realized that his younger brother had been slashed in the face with a knife. The attacker was identified by someone in the crowd as Victor Casanova. George reached for his 40 caliber Glock pistol and began approaching the Chevy Camaro that Casanova and Glen Grantham had just gotten into. Grantham was shot in the chest and died in the driver's seat. Casanova ran for several hundred yards before the pursuing George shot him twice. He died four days later. During the trial, the defense claimed that George was trying to bring Casanova in on a citizen's arrest and that Grantham was killed inadvertently. George was found guilty of murder in February 2002 and sentenced to a 30-year prison term.
On October 21, 2000, cab driver and concealed handgun license holder Wayne Franklin Lambert, Jr. was driving home two passengers, Lance Hughes and Kevin MacDonald. During the drive, Lambert pulled over and at some point shot both passengers with his stainless steel Para-Ordance 45 caliber pistol. Hughes, shot three times in the back, died at the scene, while MacDonald died in surgery hours later. According to the Austin American-Statesman, Lambert told one passerby at the scene that the two men had tried to rob him, he then told two other passersby that the two men had tried to jump him, and he told a cab driver who later appeared at the scene that the two men had tried to flee his cab without paying the fare. At a press conference six weeks after his arrest, Lambert told reporters that he shot the "rich kids" in self-defense, that they were drunk, possibly drugged, attackers. According to the Austin American-Statesman, before he went into surgery, MacDonald stated that although Lambert and Hughes had argued, Hughes didn't try and hit Lambert. MacDonald claimed that Lambert was offended by something they had said, challenged them to a fight, and threatened to call the police to accuse the two passengers of trying to rob him. On April 9, 2001, Lambert died in jail while awaiting trial.
On April 28, 1997, concealed handgun license holder Diane James was arrested by Seguin, Texas, police in the aggravated kidnapping of a young woman. According to the San Antonio Express-News, Diane James and her husband, David, abducted a San Antonio woman in her 30s off the street as she walked home. According to police reports, the woman was assaulted with a stun gun, pulled into the James' van, and then taken to their home, where she was kept naked and in chains. The woman reportedly told police that David James told her she was going to be "trained" as a sex slave. The woman escaped the next morning and ran to a neighbor's home. David James—armed with a Colt AR-15 assault rifle—followed the woman to the neighbor's home. When the police arrived at the scene a shootout ensued in which David James was killed. Diane James was convicted of aggravated kidnapping on November 21, 1997, and was sentenced to 15 years in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice Penitentiary."

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk4two.htm

[CO Liberal]

5. Then Why Is It.....

...that the most vocal pro-gunners I hear on local talk radio here in Colorado advocating CCW all sound like they're mentally inbalanced???

For example, if any of you can stomach listening to Sean Hannity's radio pukefest, one of the most vocal pro-gunners here in Southern Colorado phones in quite regularly during the end of Sean's show. He refers to himself as "Ron from Colorado Springs", and he's so pro-gun and anti-Democrat that you can practically hear him foaming at the mouth....

[MrBenchley]

6. For that matter, Hannity is pro-gun all the way

and even contributed a glowing forward for one of Mary Rosh's dishonest books.

You might recall the newsclipping that surfaced during the fight over this idiotic law in Ohio, showing that one of the leaders of the cause was considered a dangerous nut by most of his neighbors...

[slackmaster]

8. Most people who call in to talk radio ARE mentally unbalanced

Regardless of what they're talking about. That's why they call in to talk radio.

[MrBenchley]

9. And now at last they have a place to call home

And a mentally unbalanced dip to rant back at them...

[Dolomite]

10. No, the "rubbish I'm peddling"

is that business after business are taking down their "no ccw" signs because, when it comes down to it, they are REALLY REALLY concerned about what most people carry underneath their coats. (and that being cash)

They aren't falling for "ccw will turn every corner into the OK corral" bullshit anymore.

[MrBenchley]

11. And THAT's why these humholes are boycotting businesses

that don't want them in their establishments in the first place...

Uh-HUH. Yeah, that sure IS convincing...not.

[Lamorat]

12. c'mon

CHL's are a positive effect, a little extra security force where ever it is allowed. The morons who ban them are asking for the place to be a crime scene.

The boycotting HAS worked well. Give out cards that say you'll never go there again if they have that sign. They get a few of those, and the phobic agenda is out of there.

[MrBenchley]

13. It appears the entire CCW movement is based on childish fantasy...

"The boycotting HAS worked well."
And Wayne LaPierre is the Queen of the May.

[Lamorat]

14. No , it works

There used to be many places in Texas that had the signs. The boycotting got rid of nearly all of them.

[MrBenchley]

15. Yeah, surrrrrrrrrre....

And that's why Texas is without gun cr...wait a minute....Texas is a fucking disaster.

[Lamorat]

16. A disaster?

LOL!!

[MrBenchley]

19. A disaster in every way...

[RoeBear]

21. The disaster happened because...

...Ann Richards wouldn't support CCW in Texas. Bush did. And now you know the rest of the story.

[MrBenchley]

22. Gee, roe...is that why so many Texans get shot?

But then I forgot...for the "enthusiasts" it's Australia, with its 300 gun deaths annually that has the bloodbath, and not Texas, with it's 2,600 gun deaths a year.

"And now you know the rest of the story."
And like pretty much every RKBA post, it wasn't worth hearing.

[RoeBear]

23. And yet...

...if Ann would have supported CCW we wouldn't have ever had a Governor GW Bush or a President GW Bush.

I'd a made that trade, would you?

[MrBenchley]

25. SEZ you...

Of course the fact that AWOL spent more on his quest to be Texas governor in 1998 than either Clinton or Dole spent to become president in 1996 had NOTHING to do with it...in gun nut fantasyland.

[RoeBear]

29. Always an excuse

n/t

[MrBenchley]

31. Yeah, that's all we get from you "pro-gun democrats"

and never a whiff of fact.

"From running a dirty tricks school and bugging his own office, to masterminding the defeat of popular Governor Ann Richards in Texas, to seeing and harnessing the potential in George W. Bush ("Political hacks like me wait a lifetime for a guy like this to come along," Rove said of the future President), to the master plan for the 2002 elections, Dubose, Reid and Cannon detail Rove's ascendancy to the top of our national political life, illuminating along the way both the dirty underside of politics and Rove's vision for who should be governing our country and how."

http://president.dent.us/n_1586481924.htm

Easy to see why "pro-gun democrats" want to pretend Ann Richards is at fault...

[el_gato]

46. talk about a "whiff" -- LOL!

ahhh, benchley you are always good for a laugh

[FatSlob]

37. Humholes? Can't you be more mature than that?

I feel like I'm reading a 15 year old's post when I see something so juvenile.

[MrBenchley]

41. Why bother?

What could be more juvenile than the wish of a handful of neurotics to run around pretending to be gunslingers with real guns?

Meanwhile, the entire population of a state has to be put out so a few thousand nutcases can have a toy.

[FatSlob]

56. So, are the legislatures of 46 states juvenile for allowing this?

How do CHLers put anybody in danger? I thought the danger was from the criminals. Over half the country lives in shall issue states, and there haven't been any problems yet. Vermont has virtually no firearms laws, yet you don't hear of any problems there. Benchley, it is time for you to wake up and see what is staring you in the face. Lawful CCW is good for freedom, and good for America. The only people who have anything to fear are the criminals.

[TexasMexican]

39. Definately

on the newsgroup tx.guns I notice that they are always posting info on what businesses arent concealed carry friendly.

[mosin]

17. OFCC is a great group...

and I am proud to be a member. The law that the general assembly passed in January with bi-partisan support is quirky and too restrictive, but it is a good start. (Most of the quirks and restrictions are courtesy of our repug Governor Taft.)

Groups like OFCC have a successful track record all over the country in convincing initially nervous businesses to remove no-CCW signs. It worked very well in Texas. It has worked very well in Kentucky. It is already working in Ohio.

Most of the local businesses in Cincinnati are not posting, and a lot of businesses have already removed signs. Even among banks, most of the large local banks are not posting. (Fifth-Third is the notable exception.)

And here is my bold prediction: the signs at area Kroger stores will be down before the end of the month. There are already indications that Kroger is caving.

[Lamorat]

18. They always cave..

They get phobic and scared. Then people start complaining. Then they notice that places without the signs aren't getting shot up.

So they balance customer relations/business with useless phobias.

They drop the phobia.

[MrSandman]

52. Kroger's is no carry...

Not here

[mosin]

54. Kroger

Kroger is only posting in southwest Ohio -- Cincinnati and Dayton -- and only for the last two-and-a-half weeks. They have admittedly received thousands of phone calls and emails and hundreds of written letters. The unofficial word is that they are reconsidering the policy.

[RoeBear]

20. The signs go up because of our good friends...

...attorneys and insurance execs.

They come down when businesses realize that they are being boycotted by some of their best customers. Boycotts do work, ask any union member.

[MrBenchley]

24. Go figure...

People don't want to get sued because their customers have been shot by some humhole with a toy in his pocket and a delirious fantasy life. Who'd a thunk that?

I especially find the claim that banks welcome pistol packing patrons in their lobby hilarious...that's almost as funny as the "cops know we're one of the good guys" delusion that was being mumbled aloud here last week.

"Boycotts do work, ask any union member"
Gee, union boycotts work because so many working people support the idea of workers' rights for all. How many people think having loonies skulk around businesses with pistols in their pockets is worthwhile?

[mosin]

26. Delusions

I especially find the claim that banks welcome pistol packing patrons in their lobby hilarious...that's almost as funny as the "cops know we're one of the good guys" delusion that was being mumbled aloud here last week.

I'm glad that you find the truth so amusing. Maybe humor can help you cope with the distasteful reality.

"humhole"
"delirious"
"delusion"
"loonies"

Have you considered trying a few posts without the name-calling?

[MrBenchley]

27. Gee, why should I...

It's not like there's any facts to debate among these trigger-happy delusions of grandeur....

[mosin]

28. Name-calling

"trigger-happy"
"delusions"

Not quite. Try again.

[MrBenchley]

32. It's called freedom...

As Gilda Radner once sang: "If you don't love it, you can shove it...frankly I don't care..."

[mosin]

38. I agree...

As Gilda Radner once sang: "If you don't love it, you can shove it...frankly I don't care..."

That's my reaction every time someone complains that concealed carry is a dumb idea.

For what it's worth, I completely support your right to make inane and insulting posts.

[Lamorat]

40. It's called hypocrasy

When someone so anti gun freedoms cries for 1st amendment ones.

[MrBenchley]

42. Gee, lam-o-rat, I got my freedom of speech...

and you got the right to join the state militia, just like the Second Amendment says...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=bookmark&forum=118&topic_id=49341

[Lamorat]

45. Yeah right

When it says 'right of the people' in the second, it means the same as the first.

Perhaps you feel the 1st defends your right to submit to the state to decide what you can say or do.

[slackmaster]

43. Funny, isn't it?

How "Because I feel like it" is a good enough reason for displaying childish behavior on a discussion forum, but not for buying an "assault weapon".

[iverglas]

69. why, it's truly amazing!

"Because I feel like it" is a good enough reason for
displaying childish behavior on a discussion forum

or picking your nose, or singing a hymn, or wearing purple, or going to Paris for the weekend, or coveting your neighbour's livestock ...

but not for buying an "assault weapon"

or speeding in a school zone, or stealing a horse, or disclosing state secrets, or opening a used tire dump in your back yard, or leaving a hole in the ice unattended (depending on where you are, I guess) ...


Apple, orange.

.

[CO Liberal]

47. No - It's Spelled "Hypocrisy"

There IS a spell checker on DU.....

And the true hypocrisy is when people who are all gung-ho for the Second Amendment attempt to silence those who disagree with them.

[Lamorat]

50. Nobody

Is trying to 'silence' anyone. Just trying to keep the namecalling down.

[MrBenchley]

51. "trying to keep the namecalling down" sez lam-o-rat

Uh HUH...

[Lamorat]

30. Yes

The pro-gun people are out to get you. You're so angry, you need to calm down it seems.

Paranoia and thousands upon thousands of really frantic raving posts over guns is not healthy.

[MrBenchley]

33. You tell us, lam-o-rat

As for paranoia...who is that claiming they need to skulk from place to place with a pistol in their pocket?

[Lamorat]

34. That's not paranoid

That's self protection. If you are always grabbing at it, and misusing it, then duh.

Why do CHL's scare you so bad? Must be soooo unpleasant to be in this country for someone so scared of freedom and guns. I feel sorry for you.

[MrBenchley]

35. Uh-HUH

[Lamorat]

36. Well you sure showed me..

ugh

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSandman]

53. My bank was glad to see me yesterday...

I especially find the claim that banks welcome pistol packing patrons in their lobby hilarious

[minavasht]

55. It’s a free world, Bench!

They get what they want – less customers, les money. The CCW holders can buy the same stuff elsewhere, they lose nothing. Its their money, they choose how to spend it.
It’s the same here – they don’t like CCW in the library, I don’t go there. I order my books on their site and I get them by mail, free. So who really lose, Bench?

[MrBenchley]

57. Yup, they're free to pout and pretend

they're "boycotting" any place they dopesn't want them in the first place.

But I doubt they're fooling anyone.

"they don’t like CCW in the library, I don’t go there. I order my books on their site and I get them by mail, free. So who really lose, Bench?"
Certainly not library patrons.

[CO Liberal]

58. As Far As I'm Concerned....

...anyone who feels the need to carry a gun with them everywhere they go seems a bit paranoid.

Just my two cents.

[MrBenchley]

59. You got that right...

If such idiots could get in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, do you think they'd stop and think for a moment at the John Lennon exhibit?

[minavasht]

63. Bench, honey!

Did you just call me IDIOT?
I love you very much too, you know...

[minavasht]

61. Since its my skin

I prefer to decide how much is too much.
My 2 cents say that being unprepared is irresponsible, but what do I know? I’ve been on the wrong side of a gun only twice.

[RoeBear]

64. You've never been the victim of a crime but...

...are afraid of law abiding people carrying concealed handguns. Does that make you paranoid?

[CO Liberal]

66. No - That Makes Me Realistic!!!

:-)

[RoeBear]

68. So my carrying a gun...

...to protect myself from crime is being paranoid.
Your worrying about law abiding citizens carrying concealed is just being realistic. I get it.

[minavasht]

60. I take it you go everywhere you are not welcomed?

BTW the library is the only place here with the sign.
Every other business is very happy to get my money - gun or no gun.
Of course you can argue that the library is not a business...

[MrBenchley]

62. Koresh only knows what you take or don't

and I'd hate to try to guess....

[minavasht]

65. At least you can try, honey!

Do you really go to gun shows? Or they simply laughed at your "Bad guns" sing and you boycott them since then?

[MrBenchley]

67. No, it's not worth trying to guess