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GUNS OF THE DAY 21 APRIL 04

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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:31 AM
Original message
GUNS OF THE DAY 21 APRIL 04
As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any message that appears to be a personal attack against another DU-er or a violation of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Teen Critical After Shooting In Home (MI)
"The boy is listed in critical condition at St. John after he was shot around 10 p.m. Tuesday inside his home on Fairport, near Seven Mile and Schoenherr roads, on Detroit's east side, according to Local 4.
Police said they do not have a motive or suspect for the shooting, and have ruled out suicide. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040421/lo_wdiv/2104649
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "and have ruled out suicide"
I guess so, since he is still alive.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Courtroom transcript:
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 07:57 AM by Superfly
Q: Do you believe you are emotionally stable?
A: I used to be.
Q: How many times have you committed suicide?

Link
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
50. to be a technicality nerd
the article is correct. One can suicide and not die. When one suicides one either completes or does not complete.

I've had the displeasure of being involved in numerous research projects regarding suicide over the years and the terminology used in the article is scientifically correct. Reader friendly? nope, that violates several years of writing for the general public - plus it plain gets you made fun of. Stoopid.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. Kind of like drowning...
...you don't have to die.

i.e. "Help me I'm drowning!"
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)
The first Squad Automatic Rifle. Used with great effect in WW 11 and Korea. The gun MOH winner LtCol Anthony B Herbert used to kill over 200 Chinese soldiers during one busy night during the Korean war.

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano Bolt-Action Rifle
The gun Lee Harvey Oswald used to kill President Kennedy.



(If people are gonna post gun-lust photos, we should probably show the dark side as well....)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. The Remington 30.06
James Earl Ray killed Martin Luther King, Jr., with this one...

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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Human Liver...
A liver similar to this one killed James Earl Ray. Done, and.....done.

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Yeah...Someone Stood on a Rooftop With That Liver...
...and used it to kill.

Nice try......
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. No, I have to say "nice try" to you
for trying to give a metal and wood object the stigma of a "dark side". Is that you, Darth Vader?
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. ok, that was funny
even this jack-booted nazi thug foudn that entertaining.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Thank you, I'll be here all night...be sure to
tip the waitress.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Colt Cobra .38 Special
The gun used to kill Lee Harvey Oswald. Done, and.....done.

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
67. And Here's The Gun That Killed John Lennon
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Something Blue Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Fer cryin out loud...
Don't just post a pic - what kind of gun is it? Details, details!!!
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
69. The dueling pistol that killed Alexander Hamilton!!!
Or one like it. Behold! The Dark Side (TM) of guns.

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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. The arrow that killed Achilles!
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 02:50 PM by Superfly
Link

Now, if only the ancient Greeks had effective bow control.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
71. And the club that killed Lothar of the Hill People...


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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. The pretzel that nearly killed Chimpy
Pretzel control, NOW!

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. And A Rare Picture Of Ted Nugent's IQ






















































(Wanna see it again?)

:-)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Police Reportedly Shoot Wanted Man (MI)
"Neighbors called officers to report a group of men who were stripping a van in the alley located near Rohns and Mack Avenue, Local 4 reported. Arriving officers found three men stripping the van, and one pulled out a .357 magnum, according to Local 4.
Police believe the man began firing at them, so they returned gunfire, the station reported.
The man who reportedly pulled the gun was grazed by a bullet in his leg.
All three men were arrested. Police said they believe one of the men is wanted for a murder in Detroit, but did not release further details."

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3026021/detail.html
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Good work, Police!
Way to go!

:toast:
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. But how did he get a gun?
And just think of the mental anguish the cop who shot him must be going through about now.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm just glad the only person injured in this case
was the guy who opened fire on the police.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Maybe the gun faery left it under a cabbage leaf for him
Or he could have gone into any gun show in neighboring Ohio and bought it without a background check.

Or he could have gone into any gun show in neighboring Indiana and bought it without a background check.

Or he could have found a gun dealer in Michigan who winks at straw purchases--or worse.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Some more options
which are probably more likely:

He stole it

He bought it on the black market from other criminals
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Find that post of yours supporting a Democrat yet, dems?
"He bought it on the black market from other criminals"
Who had no problem getting guns from a gun dealer....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Get your eyesight checked.
I'm not Dems.

"Who had no problem getting guns from a gun dealer...."

OK...at one point, all firearms manufactured in the US are sold, legally, from gun dealers (with the exception of the very few that are STOLEN from gun shops/dealers).



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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Oops...
Sorry, I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of being dems...
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Wouldn't bother me a bit...
Dems is a friend of mine, but I still want to make sure you are addressing the proper person.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
85. Yep sucks to be me
Edited on Thu Apr-22-04 08:21 AM by demsrule4life
You can only dream of living in all the countries I have, to see and done some of the things I have done. Being a household name in the Borzoi community in Europe and the U.S. for the quality of the dogs at Peacekeepers kennels. Thought of so highly that I had people volunteer to come with my team to Rwanda even though it was thought of as a possible suicide mission and to have a Col tell me "I hope your balls are as big as everyone tells me." One thing I do wish is that I could express my self in writing better. One thing I do know, I would not trade my life experiences with yours. I have seen a lot of bad things but it has never turned me into a bitter and hateful person. Yes it sucks to be me.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. I know I'm happy to know you
and I take Bench's suggestion as a compliment. I count you as a friend, and hope that someday we can meet up. If I'm ever in Ala or you're ever in Virginia, we need to get a couple beers.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Just a couple?
:)
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Could that be the same gun faery that...
... identified a machine gun in yesterdays's GINT?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Gee, roe....
Ask me next if I care that you can't read a headline...
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natasha1 Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
66. A clue...
Or he could have gone into any gun show in neighboring Ohio and bought it without a background check.

Here's a clue:

He didn't have to go to a gun show at all to avoid a background check. All private firearms sales between individuals can be done without a background check. No need to go to a gun show for that.

Nat
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. If only you had one...
"All private firearms sales between individuals can be done without a background check."
Yeah, but so few other private sales rent out an auditorium and advertise on billboards...
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. They just take out adds on the internet
and in newspapers.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Estranged boyfriend, not police, fired shot that killed kidnap victim
"Andrea Umphrey's estranged boyfriend -- not police -- fired the shot that killed her Sunday after a kidnapping and high-speed chase, the Allegheny County coroner's office said yesterday.
The fatal shot came from a 9 mm handgun owned by Alvin Starks, 30, who now faces a homicide charge in addition to kidnapping, aggravated assault and numerous other charges.
Yesterday afternoon, Starks was taken from a hospital where he was treated for a gunshot wound to the arm. He apparently was shot by a Monroeville police officer who had helped to stop him on the Pennsylvania Turnpike Sunday afternoon after a long, twisting chase.
With his arm wrapped in a sling and a thick sponge pad, Starks told reporters prior to his arraignment in Penn Hills that the "gun went off during the crash." "

http://www.pittsburgpost-gazette.com/pg/04112/303884.stm

Guns don't kill people...until the gun owner gets nabbed.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Suspect's gun could have been seized
When Alvin Starks was arrested last month for threatening to kill his ex-girlfriend and violating a court protection order, police should have seized his Kel Tec 9 mm pistol.

They didn't.

SNIP

Umphrey's request for a temporary protection order was granted on Feb. 13. Starks violated the order a day later. He appeared in court on Feb. 23 when a final protection from abuse order was granted, but he left before officials realized there was a warrant for his arrest for violating the initial order, said Beth Keenan, the domestic violence coordinator for Allegheny County's Family Court division.

The temporary order directs police to seize weapons used in any threats against a victim if the order is violated. Starks eventually was arrested March 7, but his weapon was not seized. Court records do not indicate who arrested Starks, and city police say they have no record of the arrest.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/news/s_190383.html

Despite this, there will still be nazi horseshit pedophile assholes that want more gun laws as opposed to enforcing the existing one.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
63. This story is all too common
Police COULD have and SHOULD have seized weapons but didn't.

Court records do not indicate who arrested Starks, and city police say they have no record of the arrest.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they don't have any record of the arrest.

:eyes:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. Deputies arrest gunman at troubled nightclub (KS)
Social notes concerning the gun-owning elite...

"Sheriff's deputies were called shortly after 1 a.m. Tuesday to the Outhouse, 1837 N. 1500 Road, on reports of an armed person on the property.
Deputies arrested a 25-year-old Kansas City, Mo., man found with a .40-caliber handgun.
This is the fifth time the Douglas County Sheriff's Department has been called to the Outhouse in less than a month. In late March, a 23-year-old dancer at the club reported she was sexually battered.
So far in April, deputies have responded to reports of a robbery, battery and theft at the nightclub. According to statistics obtained from the sheriff's department, deputies have been called to the Outhouse 22 times since the start of the year."

http://www.ljworld.com/section/citynews/story/167941
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good, another criminal's gun taken away.
I strongly favor selective gun confiscation like this. Great job, police!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
21. 2 women found dead in Pendleton (WA)
"PENDLETON -- Two women were found dead Tuesday of apparent gunshot wounds along a road near the Pendleton airport, the Umatilla County District Attorney reported.
The women were found along the shoulder of A Avenue about 1:30 p.m. after a witness reported hearing gunshots, according to a news release from Christopher Brauer, county district attorney.
Further details were unavailable Tuesday night on how the two women died or whether another person was suspected in the deaths, as Brauer's office could not be reached for comment. "

http://www.tricityherald.com/tch/local/story/4989004p-4917133c.html
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Time for ANOTHER geography lesson...
Pendleton is in OREGON not in Washington. For crap's sake. No wonder American's scored so low on this test:

Link
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. West Richland bulldog shot up with paintballs (WA)
"But Ollie apparently ran into the wrong crowd. The friendly English bulldog is believed to have been the target of a person or persons who used the 4-year-old dog as a paintball target, blinding him and potentially ending the prized animal's ability to procreate.
About 10 p.m., a woman stopped by the city hall complex with a shaken bulldog in her car. She said she picked it up after it was almost hit by a truck on Van Giesen Street.
"The vet said his muscles were inflamed and bruised, and he had highly bruised testicles," DeVleming said, adding that he is 95 percent sure Ollie was the target of a paintball attack. "We assume he was penned up in a back yard and shot repeatedly.
Despite his ordeal, DeVleming said Ollie is "still the most loving, gentle, sweet dog."
"He's just a big baby. He would have gone up to anybody," Lucy DeVleming said. "

http://www.tricityherald.com/tch/local/story/4989003p-4917131c.html

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. No problem, fly...
Just bring the women back to life, and I'll report they're safely in Oregon...
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. If you can find Oregon on a map...
(hint...it's waaaaaaay west of New Jersey, where the other ocean is)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Just bring the ladies back to life
and I'll be happy to make the correction
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. uh oh
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 10:06 AM by iverglas


No wonder American's <sic> scored so low on this test: ...

How'd they do on grammar?


THE HOUSE OF PUPPY'S. The true sign on what then became my least favourite local small business.


(html edited)
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. ...
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 10:47 AM by Superfly
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. Police: Man Found Under Overpass Was Shot (IN)
"Police said Tuesday that a man found underneath an overpass Monday was killed by multiple gunshot wounds.
Through fingerprint analysis, investigators were able to identify the victim as Dennis O. Hood, 40, formerly of west Indianapolis.
Hood's body was noticed by a man taking his child to school in the 3700 block of North White River Parkway. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040420/lo_wrtv/2103477
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. How do you find your stories?
Do you enter terms like "shot," "gun," "kill," and "death" into search engines?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
28. Italy seizes weapons neaded for New York
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 09:30 AM by slackmaster
The Associated Press story appears in the April 21, 2004 dead-tree edition of the San Diego Union-Tribune on page A15.

ROME - Authorities in southern Italy seized about 7,500 Kalashnikov assault rifles and other combat-grade firearms from a ship headed for New York, officials said yesterday.

The weapons - AK-47s, AKM rifles and machine guns worth more than $6 million - were found mixed in with properly labeled guns in cargo containers on board a Turkish-flagged ship that docked at the port of Gioia Tauro, a police official said.

Documents accompanying the cargo indicated the weapons were destined for a company in Georgia, the official said.

The ship was traveling from the Romanian port of Constanta to New York....


Kudos to the Italian police. Good job! :toast:

Just a reminder here - Gun running is the source of most automatic weapons used in crimes in the USA. If the descriptions of the weapons here are accurate, none of them could be legally imported for the civilian market; all are strictly regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934. These are military firearms like the ones used by the infamous North Hollywood bank robbers, not "assault weapons".

These contraband arms were completely outside of the lawful commerce stream for firearms. I have to wonder how many similar containers get through without being detected by authorities.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. follow up?

Documents accompanying the cargo indicated the weapons were destined for a company in Georgia, the official said.

Would you expect that the company will be publicly identified? Is it likely that there are grounds for charging it -- conspiracy? Will you keep a weather eye out and let us know of further news? I'm curious.

Do you have any surmises about what sort of company this would be? (e.g. an actual firearms dealer, or some other kind of company that thought it might be nice to have a few ... thousand ... Kalishnikovs on the premises -- or that was a front for illegal arms dealing, probably the most likely scenario?)

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Yes, I will watch out for followups
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 10:56 AM by slackmaster
I suspect the company would be either an importer of firearms or of gun parts - Several major ones of either kind are located in Georgia. One example is TAPCO - See http://www.tapco.com - I do not mean to suggest any wrongdoing on the part of TAPCO or any other company.

As to whether or not the company can be implicated in a conspiracy to import illegal weapons - Who knows? I can envision inclusion of functional, complete automatic rifles in a shipment bound for the US to be the result of incompetence at the sending end, or some kind of honest mix-up. A lot of parts kits (disassembled weapons including everything except the receiver) and DEWATs (DEactivated WAr Trophies) get imported from abroad; those are supposed to be "de-militarized" to BATFE specifications by flame-cutting the receivers into at least three pieces that cannot be readily re-assembled. Proving that the intended recipient was involved in a conspiracy to import illegal arms could be very difficult. It's as if someone mails illegal drugs to your home address, and the package gets intercepted on the way. Unless documentation or witness can be found to prove otherwise, you can plausibly deny all culpability.

Of course there is also the possibility that the alleged rifles actually were de-milled properly and the entire story is erroneous. This would not be the first time an alleged major haul of illegal weapons turned out to be perfectly legal.

If this story turns out to be for real AND the destination company gets implicated I believe it will be big news. If you never hear about it again, that probably means no charges have been filed OR the whole story turned out to be bogus.

I just found another version of this story in the online Union-Tribune. The source is Reuters, and it includes an extemporaneous editorial remark about the pending expiration of the federal AW ban. It also notes:

"We know that the destination was North America, but we don't effectively know if that's where the arms were going," a customs official told RAI state television.

See http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20040420-0617-italy-us-arms.html

Edited for speling.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. ah
Okay -- the "real" shipment was destined to the company in Georgia, but it's entirely possible that someone along the way (or someone inside the company, w/o the company's knowledge ...) was going to intercept the shipment and remove the illegit portions of it.

"We know that the destination was North America, but we don't effectively know if that's where the arms were going," a customs official told RAI state television.

Indeed. I would imagine they were going somewhere else altogether. Points farther south come to mind.

I saw an excellent movie in Havana many years ago -- I'd heard of it before going there, and it was my good fortune that it was showing, because it never showed up where I lived. Raisons d'état, 1991, directed by Isabelle Benkemoun and Marc Allegret, a French-Italian co-production (ergo in French and Italian, one of which I speak, which I saw with Spanish subtitles, which I speak lesserly, making for a challenging couple of hours).

Damn, can't find much in English on the net about it (it seems to be called "Off Limits" in English sometimes). The UN Commission on Human Rights referred to it in a 1999 report on victims of torture:
http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/0/c7cf5b27456a10f08025673c0058c142?Opendocument
My film expert brother found something for me on line about it once, but I can't find it.

Anyhow, it's about journalists investigating the illegal arms trade in Europe (i.e. arms to repressive foreign governments), and the blind eye/complicity of governments, especially the French as I recall, and it's Costa Gavras/Z-ish in style and substance. If you ever run into it, it's worth seeing.

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Thanks - I envy your ability to travel to Cuba
Without risk of your government hitting you with thousands of dollars in fines.

I'd love to go to Havana. I'm pretty proficient in Spanish. Comes in mighty handy down here.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Speaking of which...
do you think the embargo will ever be lifted against Cuba?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. The embargo will be lifted the day after Fidel Castro dies
Mark my words.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Hope so, love those Cuban Romeo y Julieta's
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Of course you've enjoyed them only in Mexico, right?
As an LEO you wouldn't smoke an illegal cigar, would you?

:evilgrin:
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Right
:sheepish grin:
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. And Cuban sandwiches...a decent one
a person cannot find in the US.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. Great place in San Antonio
if you are ever there. Right off loop 410 NE and Nacagdoches. Wonderful Cuban food.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. If I hit the road right now...
I should be in San Anton by Friday.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. uh, its been a few years
might not drive over there on my account. :shrug:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Versailles restaurant in Los Angeles, CA
Excellent food at modest prices.

All genuine (I think) Cuban waiters, white table cloths, superb service.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Alright guys...can somebody give me a recommendation
on the East Coast? Preferably in Virginia? Preferably in zip code 23452?
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Wild Bill Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. Maybe they were being sent to Georgia, VT
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 12:05 PM by GeneralZOD
You know where Century’s angry beavers put together the SAR series of rifles.

800 dollars for a Romanian AK seems way high. That's even high for a Romak 3.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. LOL - Here's another version courtesy of the New York Post
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 03:10 PM by slackmaster
LINK ADDED: http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/19199.htm

The ship's deadly hoard of more than 7,500 terrorist-grade rifles and machine guns... (emphasis added)

AP called them "combat-grade" which kind of makes sense.

Congratulations to the New York Post for coining a new gun term: Terrorist-grade. :dunce:



The NYP's photo caption is messed up: An Italian officer yesterday shows off the cache of illegal assault weapons... (emphasis added) - No "assault weapons", so no Havana cigar for them.

And check out this gem of journalism:

...The smuggled firearms included the lightweight combat Kalashnikov rifles, AK-47 assault rifles and SKA and Mauser rifles, authorities said. (emphasis added)

Get Irie, Mon! Desmond Decker and Jimmy Cliff want their "SKA" rifles cleaned up and ready to go. Of course Mauser rifles are bolt-action, but that's another story.

The AK-47s had been tampered with so they couldn't be rapidly fired, but the modification was one that could easily have been reversed, authorities said.

Not sure what the hell they're talking about here. Either the rifles are legally machineguns or they are not. I wonder if they are referring to the receivers being flame-cut into three pieces, by any chance.

:freak:

The assault weapons are a favorite with terrorists: Osama bin Laden sported one in the now-infamous footage of him taken after 9/11.

Another blooper. OBL was wielding a full-auto Kalashnikov in that video, not an "assault weapon".

AK-47s also have been the weapon of choice for some infamous military-minded wackos, such as the teens who shot up Columbine HS in Littleton, Colo., in 1999.

And one more piece of misinformation for the road. The Columbine kidz didn't have any Kalashnikovs. Can't these clowns get anything right?

The United States has banned such military-style semiautomatic weapons since 1994. The law preventing them from being manufactured, imported or sold here expires in September....

Looks like the NYP is going for some kind of Bad Journalism prize, since of course the federal "assault weapons" ban does not apply to any of the firearms described in the article.

Make that a Yellow Journalism prize. The obvious implication here is that this container full of illegal weapons will suddenly be legal when the AWB expires in September. To qoute our most prolific enthusiast here - "Not even close to true."(TM)

Can ANYONE seriously claim there isn't a lot of dis- and mis-information about "assault weapons" being circulated in the press after reading this stinking pile of garbage?
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Nice one...(you have a link?)
Wouldn't mind reading the rest of this tripe.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Link added - NT
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. The bright side.
At least the Italian officer posing with the rifle knew to keep his finger off the trigger.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. ROMALTFO! (sic)
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 03:28 PM by slackmaster
Rolling on my ass, laughing the floor off.

And he's not pointing the rifle at anyone.

Not that it matters. I'm SURE the weapons are all unloaded, eh?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. Harris found guilty (PA)
"A Schuylkill County jury of seven women and five men returned the verdict Monday for the 26-year-old New York man, who prosecutors said carried out the execution-style killing of Amanda "Emily" Finkbiner in a Saint Clair housing project 18 months ago.
The jury deliberated for seven hours and 12 minutes before finding Harris guilty in the death of Finkbiner in the Aug. 27, 2002, shooting in Arnot's Addition.
Harris also killed Jamaal D. "G" Smith in the same incident that precipitated a shootout with police who responded to the scene.
He was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter in the slaying of Smith.
Relating to the Smith death, Harris was also found guilty of aggravated assault, recklessly endangering another person, receiving stolen property, possessing instruments of crime involving a Glock 9mm firearm, possessing instruments of crime involving a Jennings 9mm pistol, a charge regarding persons not to possess firearms, and discharging a firearm into an occupied structure. "

http://www.schuylkill.com/pub/2004/Apr/20/E633208A.htm
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Another violent criminal off the streets.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
33. City man gets to 10-20 years for trying to kill wife (PA)
"But for luck and quick-thinking strangers who risked their lives, Migdalia Santos might not have been in court Monday.
As it is, she is scarred for life and probably will never again be able to walk normally.
''The words, 'I am going to kill you,' are still fresh in my mind,'' Migdalia Santos said in a written statement at a Lehigh County Court hearing for the man who tried to kill her: her husband of 30 years.
Felipe M. Santos, 53, of Allentown was sentenced to 10 to 20 years in state prison for running his wife's car off the road in July 2003, shooting her in the knee with a shotgun and trying to shoot her with a .22-caliber rifle."

http://www.mcall.com/news/yahoo/all-b1_5santosapr20,0,4408230.story?coll=all-aol-yahoo-nws-hed
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Another violent criminal off the streets.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
38. Role of rival groups probed in homicide (NC)
"Shelby police are investigating whether last week's fatal shooting of a 14-year-old boy is related to a rift between two rival street groups.
Police were still looking for Roger Archie of Shelby late Tuesday, whom they plan to charge with first-degree murder in the shooting death of Ryan O'Neal Mason.
Sgt. Jim Glover with the Shelby Police Department said the 17-year-old suspect has friends in one of the groups, which calls itself the P Unit. But Glover said it's too early to tell whether there is any connection to Mason's death."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/8480178.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
64. Abducted girl rescued after short car chase (NC)
"A 3-year-old girl who was snatched at gunpoint from her home early Tuesday was recovered unharmed Tuesday night about 15 miles away, authorities said. An Amber Alert was issued for Jai Mya Glover, who had been missing since 12:40 a.m. Her mother said four men driving a small dark-colored or burgundy vehicle with silver or gold pinstripes abducted the girl in Parkton.Lt. Ken Sealey of the Robeson County Sheriff's Department said she was found shortly after 10 p.m. in a vehicle with two people who led police on a short chase that ended on Interstate 95 outside Fayetteville."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/8480338.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
65. Deputies Investigate Orange County Shooting (FL)
"A caller reported hearing shots around 3 a.m. on 41st Street, which is near Orange Blossom Trail, WESH NewsChannel 2 reported.
When paramedics arrived at the scene, they found a woman had suffered a seizure, but they didn't find anything suspicious. Someone called later after finding a dead body. Officials said the victim's name is Johnny Lee Stevens. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040421/lo_wesh/2104973
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
73. Police Seek Man With Rifle In Local Holdup (CO)
"DENVER -- Police are looking for a gunman who used a rifle to rob a neighborhood store in west Denver.
On Tuesday, investigators released a surveillance photo of the robber holding the rifle and asked anyone with information to contact them."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3023913/detail.html
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
82. Wayne County Teen Accused Of Hiring Friends To Kill Parents (NC)
"Authorities say 16-year-old Heather Johnson stole a gun from a home on April 12 and later asked two of her friends to use the firearm to kill her parents. Sheriff officials arrested and charged Johnson with two counts of solicitation to commit murder.
Investigators said the two people she solicited to commit the crime have cooperated with detectives. The firearm has not been recovered."

http://www.wral.com/news/3024101/detail.html

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
83. Arrest Made In Shooting Death Of Local Teen (OH)
"The 20-year-old man is being held in connection with the murder of Lorenzo Hunter, but has not been charged yet.
Hunter, a 16-year-old Benedictine High School student, was shot outside his Cleveland home last Friday.
Hunter was on the parochial school's state-championship-winning football team, and the school and community is devastated by his violent death. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040421/lo_wews/2105533
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
84. Anderson Teen Arraigned In Shooting Of Young Boy (NC)
"An Upstate teen was in court to face charges of shooting an Anderson boy Wednesday.
Anderson Police arrested the 15-year-old for shooting 10-year-old William Miles. The teen is charged with assault and battery With intent to kill. The shooting happened two weeks ago. William Miles' father said his son was shutting the door to their E Street home when a bullet hit the boy in the liver. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040421/lo_wyff/2105217

Besidxes a new radio show for trigger happy shitheels everywhere, let's not forget the NRA publishes a gun magazine for kids...


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