Lets try drugs

[flaminlib]

Sorry for the pun but, I thought Id cool out on guns for a while. Id like to hear thoughts on drugs, drug laws, the "drug war".

[Wickerman]

1. You go first

come on man, do it. Just a little toke, er post...

[flaminlib]

5. LOL

Not really my thing, just curious but Ill throw out what I got. Hoping for more "experienced" input.

Legalize drugs: No. Society isnt ready for it yet. Ideally, they should be legal but until we can get the technology advancements we need to moderate drug use, cant do it. ie, medicine, prevention etc.

Drug war: Never worked. No need to chase our tail. Might as well put the money into prevention and rehab and accept that drugs are going to be part of our culture no matter what we do, always have been. Moderating the negative effects, in whatever form that moderation might take, should be the focus.

Drugs: Done a few, dont anymore. High school was fun, college was funner, but been there done that. Got kids and a mortgage, no time for jail time. Besides, I got tired of cleaning up the stink-ass bong water that spilled on the carpet.

[FeebMaster]

6. How do you plan on ending the dug war

without legalizing drugs?

[Wickerman]

7. there ya go

If we legalized drugs we might see a tremendous spike in folks needing treatment, but if we took a small portion of the money dedicated to fighting the insipid war on drugs into treatment we would save a bundle of money. Tax pot, retire the debt. Demystify drugs and decrease usage. Clean out the prison for non-criminal users. All sounds fine to me. I don't mess with drugs, but I fail to see why we discriminate against those who would like to.

Government needs to get out of the business of morality.

[flaminlib]

9. Well

To Feebmaster, the way to end it is to stop "aggressively" going after users. No other revelations I can think of.

To luna, your statement refers to the potential benefits of legalizing pot. But, Im not sold on the fact that the bad wouldnt outweigh the good.

Silly scenario: Legalize pot.... Soon, every grocery store and bar is offering it. We all know the problems with alcohol, imagine if you add pot on top of it. I know a few of you smoke (only legal substances Mr Ashcroft) and there is nothing better than a cold beer and a warm buzz. Lots of us have been there. Now, drive home!

Not that folks dont already do that, but making it readily available and legal, might be too tempting for some of us.

Saturday night, around 10, some hotwings, a few beers and...well you get the point.

[Wickerman]

11. So, the answer is prohibition because someone might abuse

the product? Hmmm, this sounds familiar. Handle it the same as alcohol. Besides, "addiction" to pot is not like alcohol. Many of your DUI's are to chronic alcoholics.

[flaminlib]

12. No

I dont believe in prohibition as the ultimate goal or ultimate answer. I just dont think we are ready to legalize it yet.

I agree with, slackmaster i think, that not putting pot smokers in jail is a good start. De facto limits on possession and use; less than a quarter or something, would be "overlooked" and regarded as a nuisance in the same way as friendly poker games are.

I dont care if were legal, but I see it causing more problems than it solves.

Pot is actually easy. What about heroin and meth and pcp etc? Prohibition or legalization?

[Wickerman]

13. decriminalization is still prohibition

We know how overlooking works. The rich folks will be overlooked - the otherwise will be charged if it is on the books. Kinda like it is now.

What about heroin? The Netherland have been successful with their addict programs. They at least get folks on methadone and monitored, which is a step to return to functioning. Numbers showed a drop after initial spike.

Meth? No one would do that shit if coke were readily available - and again, treatment would be there to help those who are already, even as it is illegal, are addicted. PCP? I can't imagine anyone willingly doing that - perhaps with greater control of the drug supply we would not have as much usage.

[flaminlib]

14. thats still prohibition though

I dont know about the netherlands but I cant imagine that heroin is legal, is it? Surely methadone clinics are a better way to go than jail but try selling that to the public. And, what is the relapse rate?

"Meth? No one would do that shit if coke were readily available "

LMAO... hard to argue that but prices would have to come down. 8 ball, get your 8 ball, $15.....sold!!!!

"PCP? I can't imagine anyone willingly doing that - perhaps with greater control of the drug supply we would not have as much usage"

Thats the problem with it. Prohibition in some form is going to be necessary until we have the tools to deal with ALL drugs effectively. I dont think we are anywhere near that yet.

[Wickerman]

15. More people die annually from gunshot wounds

"Thats the problem with it. Prohibition in some form is going to be necessary until we have the tools to deal with ALL guns (my insert) effectively. I dont think we are anywhere near that yet.


care to try that philosophy against guns? AND, a major caveat - most drug deaths are self-inflicted and accidential - can't say that about gunshot wounds.

[flaminlib]

17. Ahh, the ole bait and switch hm?

However, you are excluding alcohol and tobacco from your drug example (taking your assertion at face value). Im quite sure the number of deaths due to alcohol and tobacco FAR outnumber deaths due to guns.

Adding MORE drugs to the mix, which are arguably more dangerous than either alcohol or tobacco, would result in even greater deaths by harmful substances.

Second, in should be noted that someone killing someone else with a gun is an act of violence, not recreational enjoyment (at least it shouldnt be). Death because of violence is a reality, whether its a gun or a knife. Death through chemicals can and should be moderated.

Third, owning a gun doesnt impair your judgement, despite what some of the more ardent gun controllers would say. Using a gun can be done for recreation, sport, violence, and defense. Using drugs is done for ONE purpose, getting high. Getting high impairs your abilities, shooting doesnt.

The 2 issues are tied however. Drugs do cause gun violence. I am sure of that. Drive by's and gangland killings don't happen because of political disputes! At least I hope they wont! :wow:

[FeebMaster]

18. It would be more fair to say

"Drugs do cause gun violence. I am sure of that. Drive by's and gangland killings don't happen because of political disputes!"

that the drug war causes gun violence. If you could buy drugs legally, those gangs wouldn't be fighting over selling drugs. Other than New York City, how often do you hear about people killing each other over selling cigarettes?

[Wickerman]

19. No, no bait and switch and no need to include other drugs

I'll just stick to the illegal ones. By your own standard, guns should be illegal until we can re-introduce them safely. I don't want that either, but we could settle the drive-bys by legalizing drugs.

Drugs don't cause the drive-bys - they are a symptom of the power and corruption/greed struggle brought on by the drug war. Drugs, like guns, are a symptom, not the cause.

Second, in should be noted that someone killing someone else with a gun is an act of violence, not recreational enjoyment (at least it shouldnt be). Death because of violence is a reality, whether its a gun or a knife. Death through chemicals can and should be moderated.

Again, you are expressing opinon, nothing factually based in that statement. Because violence is reality we shouldn't do a damn thing to try to mitgate it? Bullshit.

[bluestateguy]

2. When it comes to drugs and the sex industry I am a free marketer!

So called "free market conservatives" seem to leave those principles behind when the issue is drugs or sex. Then they want all kinds of prohibition and/or regulation. I guess to them "free market" principles should only apply to big corporations that pollute the air and water, overcharge people for life saving pharmaceuticals, make it impossible for people to afford health care and profit from an illegal war.

[jadedcherub]

3. couldn't resist..

I'm running out the door so this will be short,
but the drug war seems like a lot of crap when you take into account the status of alcohol and tobacco as legal, and a less harmful drug like marijuana is still a class 1. Further, any drug problem is a health care problem, and therefore needs treatment not incarceration. We already incarcerate more of our citizens than any other country, and at a cost of (if I can remember correctly) something to the effect of $26,000/year/prisoner and I got to tell you that I'm tired of paying to incarcerate non-violent offenders, which make up almost 2/3rds of the prison population. Of those non-violent offends, those that are jailed due to marijuana should be released, the drug should be decrim'd and legalized, and immediately taxed and exported and sold. Turn all those offenders into money for the government that we can put into better programs. In 1998 (sorry I don't have any more recent statistics) marijuana was the fourth largest cash crop in America, despite law enforcement dropping 10 billion annually to stop it.

"Marijuana stands as the largest revenue producing crop in Alabama, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Maine, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. It ranks as one of the top five cash crops in 29 others. Increases in state and federal spending since 1980 to reduce marijuana cultivation demonstrated little effect in limiting overall production."

http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/marijuana_ranks_fourth_largest_c.htm


Just my quick thoughts, gotta run.

[slackmaster]

4. I support drug legalization, or at least decriminalization

Drug abuse should be regarded and treated as a medical problem. I can see leaving the most dangerous ones as controlled substances, but using them should not be a serious crime.

[MrSandman]

10. Ahem....

"...using them should not be a serious crime."

Should not be a crime at all.

[DenverDem]

8. I support mandatory marijuana usage,

especially for the president.

Just kidding, it is 4/20 after all.

Of course, "Legalize it, don't criticize it." (Peter Tosh)

Tax it, balance the freaking budget, empty the prisons, stop criminalizing the populace and everybody just mellow out.

[Maurkov]

16. Legalize everything except antibotics and antivirals

There is a compelling argument to keep antibiotics restricted, which is that abuse by some reduces their efficacy for everyone. Other than that, prohibition makes every "bad" drug worse.

This book helped put into words a lot of what I already felt about Consensual Crimes. The section on drugs, which can be read independently, starts here.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

20. Legalize the whole lot

Stimulants, depressants, hallucinigens, anabolics, etc. No more drug war. No one going to jail for smoking a bud in their house, which is healthier than drinking a fifth.

How many accidental heroin/coke/crack/crank OD's would we not have if the concentrations of such were known. If people knew what they could safely take, that right there would save a lot of lives.

Make it so a bodybuilder knows just what pills they are taking, or what exactly is in that oil he/she is pumping into his/her ass.

Make driving under the influence of the mind altering drugs the same as a DUI. You want to do it, do it at home.

Some dummies will OD themselves anyway, Darwin would be proud.