Dennis Henigan on the NRA Failure to Capitalize on Heller

[mikeb302000]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a-henigan/how-many-second-amendment_b_998492.html">via The Huffington Post

The NRA's dreams that District of Columbia v. Heller would result in a free-for-all of gun-toting teens and AK-47 arsenals has so far been soundly rejected. Instead, the NRA's litigation has led to a host of well-reasoned decisions from Republican-appointed judges upholding strong gun laws. While the NRA recently complained in an e-mail to its members that it is facing "a series of Second Amendment disasters," who knew they'd be in cases handpicked and funded by the NRA itself?

That's his concluding paragraph to a wonderful article about who's really winning, http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/10/winning-is-good.html">one of our favorite subjects. Few gun-rights advocates will admit it, but the fact is during the first three years of Obama's term, a time in which the president proved to be anything but the terrible adversary to gun rights the NRA predicted, the pro-gun gains have been minimal to say the least. There are those who admit it.

I offered the following on http://newtrajectory.blogspot.com/2011/10/three-judicial-rulings-on-firearms.html#comments">Baldr's blog:

The gun-rights folks are rightfully worried. if this is what happens with a cooperating (with them) President and a Supreme Court weighed towards their side, they're in big trouble when things change.

http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/">Sebastian responded like this:

I don't make any suggestions otherwise. The Second Amendment is one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless. They don't even have to overturn Heller and McDonald, just decide in future cases not to expand the right beyond the ability to have a gun in your home, even though state courts have tended to overwhelmingly reject that notion when interpreting their own RKBA provisions, and is out of line with the text, which states "keep and bear."

That's why despite your side's prattling about NRA paranoia in regards to Obama, gun owners are intent on getting him out. If he replaces any of the Heller five, the Second Amendment is finished. You're correct to suggest we're scared. I certainly am. But you can't suggest that, and then out of the other side of your mouth tell us we're nuts for opposing a second term for President Obama. If Kagan turns around and surprises us, I'll eat my words here, but I'm not holding my breath.

Being the consummate debater that he is, Sebastian wasn't able to simple agree with my suggestion that his side has made so little progress in these years that the future looks bleak for them, no, he segued the discussion into another area, our calling them paranoid. He says that it is true they've made so little progress that the 2A is "one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless," therefore they're justified in being paranoid.

Now that's what I call slick debating.

What's your opinion? Is everyone beginning to come together in agreement that, despite all the Wayne-La-Pierre type blustering we often have to put up with, gun irghts are gradually takingg a back seat to sensible gun control laws?

Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[bluestateguy]

1. The Heller and McDonald cases did not forbid regulations and rules

And I think the decisions said so explicitly. Cities, states and the federal government have the constitutional right to enact laws on licensing, registration, and mandatory trigger locks, as just a few examples. People can debate the wisdom of those policies, but they are constitutional.

Those cases were about handgun bans and the Court deemed this policy as violative of the 2nd Amendment.

[-..__...]

18. Wrong, they stated no such thing.

The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms

WRT to licensing, the court never reached any final conclusion on the matter...

Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement.

Even if that could be taken to mean licensing is allowable, the practice of "may issue" is not.

IOW... the restrictions you've posted have yet to be decided.


And you're doubly wrong on the "mandatory trigger locks"...

The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#Decision

[rl6214]

2. No I don't agree with you at all.

In fact I challenge you to come up with more victories for the gun control side than their are defeats. You won't be able to do it. That's exactly why there is only one state (IL) that does not have some form of concealed carry.

"one of our favorite subjects"

One of YOUR favorite subjects. Still not gonna click on the blind links to your blog. You want us to read your crap, copy and paste it.

[rl6214]

3. Serious question for you

Why don't you EVER post on any threads other than your own?

[ileus]

7. It's like he doesn't really care about the subject, but instead has other motives

I find it rather odd also....I suppose all other posts are below him, just not worthy. He'll even post a duplicate topic and pretend he's the first on the "story"

[PavePusher]

4. Lies and damned lies.

"The NRA's dreams that District of Columbia v. Heller would result in a free-for-all of gun-toting teens and AK-47 arsenals..."

Really, who ever said anything like that... other than the gun-restrictionist crowd? What defines an "arsenal" of AK-pattern rifles?


"The Second Amendment is one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless."

Except, of course, that they can't. The Amendment means what it says, and the Supremes can no more sweep it under the rug than they can do so to the First Amendment. Plus, there are all those pesky state Constitutions out there....


Please set forth a detailed list of your "sensible gun control laws", explain how you would fund and enforce them, then move back home and start pushing to enact them.

[Iktomiwicasa]

9. "The Second Amendment is one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution

Pretty amazing, init? Had absolutely no idea that the SCOTUS had the authority to do that. Learn something every day....

:rofl:

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Minimal Wins? LOL. Take a look at this year's wins.

PRO-GUN VICTORIES SO FAR IN 2011

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6456
Virginia: Governor M cDonnell Signs Four NRA-Supported Bills

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6465
Utah Governor Signs Two Important Pro-Gun Bills into Law!

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6563
Kansas: Two NRA-Backed Bills Signed into Law as the 2011 Legislative Session Adjourns in Topeka!

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6572

Virginia: Governor Signs Two Remaining NRA-Supported Bills!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/cuccinelli-says-guns-in-churches-are-okay-if-theyre-for-self-defense/2011/04/11/AFvTYPLD_blog.html

Virginians may carry weapons for personal protection into places of worship while religious services are being conducted, according to a new legal opinion by Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6632
North Dakota: Employee Protection Bill Signed by Governor Dalrymple

http://newsok.com/fallin-signs-self-defense-rights-law/article/3562026
Oklahoma governor signs bill that expands self-defense rights

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6707
NRA-Backed Bill Becomes Law in the Cornhusker State

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6822
Oklahoma Legislature Passes, Governor Mary Fallin Signs “Parking Lot” Protection Expansions!

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=15241
Gov. Rick Perry Signs Legislation Protecting Texas Workers’ Right to Self-Defense

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=15279
Pennsylvania: Gov. Corbett signs bill on right to use deadly force. (Castle Doctrine)

http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2011/06/29/news/19local_06-29-11.txt
Permitless concealed carry becomes law.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6964
Thursday, June 30, 2011

Today, Governor John Kasich signed both Senate Bill 17 and House Bill 54 into law. SB 17 is important concealed carry reform legislation and HB 54 will provide individuals a pathway to restore their firearm rights.

http://wsau.com/news/articles/2011/jun/30/ohio-governor-signs-law-allowing-guns-in-bars/
Ohio governor signs law allowing guns in bars

http://www.pjstar.com/free/x1107265105/Quinn-bars-gun-permit-disclosure
Gov. Pat Quinn on Saturday signed into law a measure barring the public from knowing who holds a firearm owner identification card in Illinois.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/15018316/new-gun-laws-take-effect-in-nevada
Two new Nevada gun laws took effect Friday that make it easier to buy guns across state lines and obtain permits for concealed weapons.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/jul/09/gun-bill-is-signed-into-law/
Governor signs bill lowering CCW age from 23 to 21.

http://www.wifr.com/news/headlines/Gov_Walker_Signs_Concealed-Carry_Bill_Into_Law_125253309.html
Gov. Walker Signs Concealed-Carry Bill Into Law

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7079

New Hampshire House Override’s Veto on Self-Defense (Stand Your Ground) Bill

You lose again.

[ileus]

17. however.com it only takes one vote for the 2A to be history.

And that's what the antis are really waiting for, they know people have rejected gun control. They only have state and federal courts left on their side.

[mikeb302000]

27. if and when that happens you guys are in trouble

not because gun bans and confiscations will follow, I don't think they would, but because your great fall back position will be gone. Whenever you can't win the argument straight up, you fall back on the 2A. If you could justify gun ownership and all the other nonsense you keep trying to justify without bringing up the 2A, you would. You can't.

[SteveM]

30. That cold water is creeping up your ankles. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

34. We do justify them, and easily.

Recreation, hunting, self-defense, all valid reasons for gun ownership. Considering that about 300 millions guns are privately owned, only a tiny percentage of those are used for illegal purposes.

Further, we are able to gather enough votes to get more of what we want each year. In the 2010 elections over half the winners in the House have an "A" NRA rating, and almost half of the Senate are rated "A".

[Atypical Liberal]

26. Hey if this is what it feels like to be losing I hope we lose some more! n/t

[ileus]

6. YES everyone agrees the NRA's plan was Criminals carrying guns. the writer is an ID10T

[jmg257]

8. Henigan sounds like the perfect counter

to la pierre. Have you read his article? How old are these bloggarts?

The maturity level of these gun control wussies never stops amazing me...are they grown men or little kids trying to out-tease the other side just to garner attention for their obsessions (and idiotic musings)? Debaters??...more like prepubescent masterbaters getting off with one hand as they count so-called 'wins' on the other!

Na na na na na..."now go away or I shall taunt you a second time".

[SteveM]

31. Aren't the both Republicans, Henigan and LaPierre? nt

[rrneck]

10. This entire legislative and political exercise

is an effort to establish proper rules of engagement between aggressors and defenders in our culture.

As long as there are people willing to use force to take what they want from those who are weaker firearms will be popular. Any politician who appears to be so obtuse as to not understand that will lose at the polls. Any political party that doesn't understand that will spend time in the political wilderness. Any segment of the electorate that doesn't understand that has more money than sense.

[aikoaiko]

11. And now the delusional a-holes from the Brady Bunch are saying Heller was not a big deal.

I wonder why they fought it so vigorously?

[Hoopla Phil]

14. Hell, I remember right after the decision they were trying to spin it as a win.

They pointed to how the decision said that unusual weapons could be banned and claimed that only "hunting" guns were protected.

[-..__...]

15. Hell, I remember when the Bradys were shaking in their boots

worried that if Heller was decided against the city, State and local gun control laws could be wiped out practically overnight.

Fearful of that (losing everything),... they had attempted to persuade Fenty and the DC City Council to not appeal the lower courts decision (Parker v. District of Columbia), to the SCOTUS.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. The gun-rights folks are rightfully worried. ,,,no, not so much --

:shrug: I am not too worried about 2A. I have other issues with this country that concern me more at this time.

[Hoopla Phil]

13. What a load of crap!

When Heller was issued there were a few people that said that was it. But most all said that it was just the beginning and would be followed by years of litigation challenging unconstitutional laws. The gun control people will not let go of their control willingly. They will need to be dragged to compliance with the law kicking and screaming. That is what we are seeing take place.

[-..__...]

16. The problem here...

is that the SCOTUS ruling in Heller (and McDonald), never set a level of judicial scrutiny in their decision(s).

Until that happens, the lower courts are going to continue to be in a bit of a quandary without more guidance from above.

[Hoopla Phil]

19. I think they did without spelling it out.

Though the lower courts seem to be ignoring it. I posted a thread about it for discussion but it didn't get much of a response, and I cannot find it.

As I remember, Heller did in fact acknowledge that the 2A is a FUNDAMENTAL right. As an acknowledged fundamental right there is only one scrutiny level to be applied - Strict.

[gejohnston]

20. a perfect match

The NRA's dreams that District of Columbia v. Heller would result in a free-for-all of gun-toting teens and AK-47 arsenals

Dennis Henigan makes Wayne look sane and coherent.
Can we get the two in a debate? I would pay to see that.:popcorn:

[PavePusher]

24. Particle and anti-particle.

Hilarity ensues....

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

21. If th anti's want to stick their heads in the sand while we tear their world apart... great. (n/t)

[Hoyt]

22. Gunners here have consistently misinterpreted the impact of Heller and McDonald. Their fantasy

of bazillions of gun toters is laughable (while concerning).

[PavePusher]

23. Cite this fantasy. Can you provide evidence for any of the claims you make?

Where are the pictures of the "two guns strapped" toters being tacky in public?

[Hoopla Phil]

25. Please specify. You've posted this before and failed to answer my question.

Does Heller not state that guns "in common use" are specifically protected? Was the M-16 not specifically cited as being particularly suited to militia service? And what did Heller say about active participation in a militia being necessary for 2A protection?

[aikoaiko]

28. Classic straw man argument. But then again that's all you have.

I pity you.

[SteveM]

32. "laughable (while concerning." Well, Hoyt, which is it? Don't be coy. nt

[SteveM]

29. My, they not only re-arrange deck chairs, they congratulate themselves...

This sounds like the same mediocre stuff to come from the GOP-founded, GOP-led Brady Campaign.

I wonder: How did the Brady bunch vote in '08? Will they vote/not vote for Obama in '12?

[petronius]

33. It's an interesting contrast. In recent years, there have clearly been more

legal and legislative victories (both in quantity and quality) for the pro-gun-rights side, while pro-gun-control victories largely consist of maintaining a status quo. And yet, the NRA-ILA is still apparently robocalling about the coming UN confiscation and other boogeymen (although I've never gotten such a call), while the VPC is boasting of a nebulous run of conquests.

Setting aside that the NRA-ILA approach is the sort of fear-stirring campaign long-proven to work on RWers, I wonder if there's a more general psychology here: winners pretending to be on the verge of losing to keep the players motivated, and losers pretending to be winning to keep the players from giving up. We probably see the same thing in locker rooms, board rooms, campaign strategy meetings, military HQs...

[abogado]

35. Every time I see one of your posts I am reminded of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_%28Monty_Python%29