Gun Control and Marijuana

[mikeb302000]

http://news.yahoo.com/atf-illegal-sell-guns-med-marijuana-users-194207894.html;_ylc=X3oDMTEwcnNyaWpmBF9TAzIwMjM4Mjc1MjQEZW1haWxJZAMxMzE3MjQ5NzQz">In Montana and Oregon they're very confused.

Firearms dealers in states that allow medical marijuana can't sell guns or ammunition to registered users of the drug, a policy that marijuana and gun-rights groups say denies Second Amendment rights to individuals who are following state law.

Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances. A Sept. 21 letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, issued in response to numerous inquiries from gun dealers, clarifies that medical marijuana patients are included in that definition.

That seems clear enough. Why would having a prescription for the drug change anything? The reason users of marijuana and other drugs are prohibited from owning firearms is because when taking the drug they are impaired and cannot responsibly and safely manage the guns.

Of course, the slippery slope is looming on the horizon of this policy. What about the prescription pain killers, some of which are like heroin? How can gun ownership be compatible with them and not with their street counterparts? The answer is simple and obvious, it cannot.

But never underestimate the power of the NRA and the gun lobby.

Officials in two Oregon counties have said they'll appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court after state judges said sheriffs couldn't deny concealed handgun licenses for medical marijuana patients.

The Oregon Court of Appeals and the Oregon Supreme Court said the state law that authorizes concealed handgun permits is separate from the federal law that outlaws gun possession by drug users, and the state gun law doesn't address medical marijuana use.

So, in spite of the federal law, the State of Oregon has decided concealed carry permits are OK for medical marijuana patients. It's sort of a technicality that one is a state law and the other is federal. I suppose those gun owners who are also medical marijuana patients had to conceal that fact when buying their guns. Otherwise the gun dealer would have been constrained to deny the purchase because of the federal law. Is that part legal, that concealing of marijuana use at the time of buying a gun?

Eventually this will all have to be straightened out.

What's your opinion? Do you think responsible gun owners can smoke pot and continue to be responsible? I don't. I believe one would have to choose, pot or guns. If you want to get high, fine I have no problem with it. Drugs should be legal anyway in my opinion. But, I cannot accept that drug use and gun ownership are compatible.

What do you think? Please leave a comment.
http://www.mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[ileus]

1. I think you posted a duplicate topic...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x464932

[rrneck]

6. Too lazy to google up his own shit. nt

[DissedByBush]

18. Quite the prolific blog pimp n/t

[era veteran]

17. A duplicate duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2022286

[GreenStormCloud]

2. To use a substance in a medically prescribed manner does NOT mean you are addicted.

Back in January I had some teeth pulled. The dentist gave me a perscription for some pain pills. After the pain was over I quit taking the pills. Would you deny me the right ot have a gun over that?

BTW - I am a senior citizen with a modest disability and dropped my shotgun 43 years ago. It didn't go off as it wasn't cocked.

[mikeb302000]

5. no, I wouldn't disqualify you. nt

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[the other one]

3. Lies. Culture war.

Can you cite any examples of pot leading to irresponsible use of firearms?

Or are you fighting the anti-hippie culture war?

[Iktomiwicasa]

4. "Eventually this will all have to be straightened out."

I agree, it will have to be straightened out. We look forward to the day when the ATF does not discriminate against lawful medical marijuana users and allows them to lawfully purchase firearms. Of course, this isn't your intention in posting this....you rub your hands in glee at the thought of prohibiting anyone from owning firearms.

Oh, and "unrecced".

[mikeb302000]

7. you made a very mendacious and stupid

remark.

"you rub your hands in glee at the thought of prohibiting anyone from owning firearms."

When you said "Oh, and "unrecced"." is there a function related to that or is it just text in the comment? Is someone counting them? Those are serious questions.

[Iktomiwicasa]

8. "mendacious and stupid"

Because the King says so?

I mentioned the "unrecc" because it obviously pisses you off.

[Iktomiwicasa]

11. To add...

"you rub your hands in glee at the thought of prohibiting anyone from owning firearms." is spot on. Reading your posts here, you seem delighted at any and all proposed regulation that denies the people their constitutional right to own a firearm, so I'd say I hit the nail on the head.

[Iktomiwicasa]

13. Direct question...

...and I'd appreciate a direct answer. Are you in the employ of the United Nations?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. What's my opinion?

Do I think responsible gun owners can smoke pot and continue to be responsible? yes. yes. I do.

[Old Codger]

10. I don't know about

Other states but they have made it so easy to get a medical MJ deal in Oregon as to be a joke. Might have a lot to do with it.

[the other one]

12. Is it a coincidence?

As more states legalize marijuana the violent crime rate drops?

Pot smokers should be the only ones allowed to own firearms.

[Atypical Liberal]

14. Should you also lose your right to drive? Raise children?

What's your opinion? Do you think responsible gun owners can smoke pot and continue to be responsible? I don't. I believe one would have to choose, pot or guns. If you want to get high, fine I have no problem with it. Drugs should be legal anyway in my opinion. But, I cannot accept that drug use and gun ownership are compatible.

Let me ask you this:

Should people taking medical marijuana be able to drive cars? Should they be able to raise children? Or does taking medicine make one too irresponsible to do those things?

Of course not.

People who take medicine know that you don't mix drugs with risky activities like driving or using firearms.

And in fact, it is already illegal to do so.

I have a refrigerator full of home-brew. Should I not be allowed to own firearms?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. That was going to be my point.

[Common Sense Party]

15. In Italy they're very, very confused.

Not all, perhaps.

Just one particular monarch.

[dtexdem]

16. This certainly shows that marijuana should be decriminalized nationally ...

and gun control strengthened everywhere.

[gejohnston]

20. I get the first part,

but I fail to get the second part, unless I missed the inappropriate firearms use.

[SteveM]

27. Sounds like the 30s: End one prohibition, start another...

The most addictive thing about prohibition is prohibition.

[gravity556]

21. Having dealt with a fair share of potheads and drunks,

I would trust the stoned individual with a gun rather than the drunk. And if someone benefits medically from marijuana and is licensed by the state to purchase and consume it, then why remove their rights? They've shown that they follow the law, and law abiding citizens shouldn't be deprived of the right to self defense with a firearm. Particularly in cases where cancer patients smoke pot to suppress nausea and keep their appetite. In fact, someone who is ill and wasting from a disease is precisely who a firearm could help the most in an emergency.

I would bet that more murders are committed under the influence of alcohol than pot, but I don't see a cry to bar a 5th a day whiskey drinker, or a functioning alcoholic who can't make it through the day without a few nips to keep away the shakes and DTs. Come to think about it, the only symptom I've ever seen from a pot smoker who is out of pot is some bitching that they're out of pot. I've seen alcoholics who get the shakes if they don't keep their BAC at .1

If it's prescribed under a doctor for a legitimate health concern (and I agree-some states make it so you can get a card if you get ingrown toenails) like documented chronic pain, HIV, cancer and the like, then you aren't an unlawful user.

[mikeb302000]

22. the question is not which is worse.

the question is should pot users own guns. I say no.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Fortunately, no one gives a shit what you say.

[SteveM]

28. Indeed. Oh! It's 4:25. Past time to.....

[Atypical Liberal]

24. Again, should they be able to own cars? Raise children?

Should pot users be able to own cars? Should they be able to raise children?

What about people who use alcohol? What about people who are taking cold medicine? Schedule III drugs?

[spin]

26. Of course you also believe that older people like me who are "physically incapacitated"

should also not be allowed to own guns.

An excerpt from one of your recent posts:

Yesterday, on another site, I was accused of equating the elderly and the severely handicapped with criminals. This nonsensical accusation came from a post I wrote once in which I made, what I thought was a common-sense suggestion, that some elderly people and some handicapped people cannot responsibly handle firearms and should be disarmed. The key word in category 5 is "incapacitated."

1. anyone who has ever violated a gun-law but has never been convicted of a felony.
2. anyone who abuses his wife or children in any way but has never been convicted of it.
3. anyone who is addicted to drugs and/or alcohol but has not yet been disqualified.
4. anyone who has ever dropped a gun or caused a negligent discharge.
5. anyone who has become elderly and incapacitated or otherwise physically incapacitated. ...emphasis added
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=464749&mesg_id=464749

Here is the definition of incapacitated under Iowa code:

709.1A INCAPACITATION.
As used in this chapter, "incapacitated" means a person is
disabled or deprived of ability, as follows:
1. "Mentally incapacitated" means that a person is
temporarily incapable of apprising or controlling the person's own
conduct due to the influence of a narcotic, anesthetic, or
intoxicating substance.
2. "Physically helpless" means that a person is unable to
communicate an unwillingness to act because the person is
unconscious, asleep, or is otherwise physically limited.
3. "Physically incapacitated" means that a person has a
bodily impairment or handicap that substantially limits the person's
ability to resist or flee. emphasis added...emphasis added
http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/cool-ice/default.asp?category=billinfo&service=iowacode&ga=83&input=709.1A

Is it odd that I suspect you would love to ban all civilian firearm ownership and if you were in a position of power you would find every available excuse to ban all ownership that you could.

[era veteran]

29. I have read your posts from time to time and it is ok

to have a difference of opinion but on this you are full of shit. Straight Up!

[PavePusher]

30. What other prescribed medications should have the same rule?

And should it apply 24/365, or only when the medication is in effect, i.e. medications taken intermittantly as symptoms occur?

[gravity556]

31. And if you were knowledgeable enough to make an informed opinion, still no one would

give a flying fuck about your opinion. :)

If they're under a doctor's care, then they should not forfeit their rights. What other rights should a MMJ user lose, mike? His right to vote? How about protection from self incrimination? Can they be deprived of property without just compensation? How about warrants? Should the cops get a pass on needing a warrant to search an MMJ card holder to make sure there aren't any guns? And are you going to fund a security guard to protect those that are so ill as to be defenseless against the kind of shitbags who would do a home invasion to grab whatever weed the patient has at home?

Or is it not your problem and they get what they deserve? Because that's pretty fucking loathesome.

[rl6214]

32. What about someone that has a prescription for Vicodin for chronic pain

How about Lyrica for chronic pain?

How about Cymbalta or percocet?

There are a lot of prescriptions, many of them narcotic drugs, many of them controlled substances. If there is a real, legal prescription, are you going to bar someone on the drugs from owning firearms?

[Katya Mullethov]

33. I reckon marihuana users are as good a place as any to start

Few will stick up for them , so it's a pretty safe bet . In time they can work their way "down" to those on other prescription meds and beer . If only your quarry were more docile and naive , this would be a cake walk .