Gun toters HALT robbery attempts

[Superfly]

Link

<snip>

Applying the school-yard axiom that turnabout is fair play, would-be robbery victims thwarted their attackers in two recent separate incidents -- one by facing down the alleged bandit in a standoff, the other by shooting a man in the butt.

The self-defense actions drew praise but also caution about returning to Dodge City-style six-gun justice. (which hasn't happened, despite all the pleas that it does from the anti-RKBA crowd)

<snip>

Dwyer said the incident is making him rethink his opposition to the state law that eased concealed weapons permit regulations.

<snip>

[BJ]

1. Kewllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...........................

That's so kewl. Ya, no sumtimes i get so mad at these asholes when i'm driving i wish i had a pistol. thanx superfly u r hip!

[Ganja Ninja]

3. I know how you feel. Sometimes I wish I had a hand grenade or ...

a bazooka when I'm stuck in traffic and I get the urge to kill.

[Superfly]

4. These 2 posts add nothing to the discussion

what's your point or are you just trying to be facetious?

[Ganja Ninja]

25. I guess I'm just trying to be facetious.

While I own several guns I think having the general populace riding around armed is a bad idea. If you drive much in any environment rural or city and see the kind of crap that goes on well... I know that I would have been in several shoot-outs just for asking other drivers for nothing more than sharing the road.

[CO Liberal]

2. The More Guns Out There....

...the more potential for "Dodge City-style six-gun justice". It hasn't happened yet, because the number of people with CCW permits is relatively small, and those people are very careful. My concern is that when more and more people are carrying concealed, they might NOT be as careful.

And what would you do then to remedy the situation - cancel the permits? How well do you think THAT will go over??? Better not to issue the damn permits in the first place, IMHO.

[Superfly]

5. Despite what the anti-RKBA crowd wishes and begs for

blood will not flow in the streets and Dodge city shootouts will not return. Sorry to dissapoint.

Yes, permits should NEVER be issued. Instead, states should adopt CCW laws like Alaska and Vermont. No permit needed.

[MrBenchley]

7. Jeeze, fly...

We got 90,000 shootings a year.....blood IS flowing in the streets already. And the RKBA crowd wants to up the chances for bloodshed.

[Superfly]

8. And, proof of that assertion would be in short supply, right?

[MrBenchley]

11. You mean proof

that the RKBA crowd begs for any such thing? Yeah, you'll notice nobody even bothered to ask you.

[Superfly]

12. Ask me what?

Go ahead, ask me a question, I look forward to it.

However, it is still painfully evident that you refuse to support your assertions without even basic proof.

[MrBenchley]

14. What assertions are unsupported?

90,000 shootings a year?

"Guns cause more than 30,000 deaths and 60,000 injuries a year in the U.S., estimates the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). "

http://www.texansforgunsafety.org/articles/archives/costs.htm

Now let's see YOU support YOUR assertion, fly--show us anybody for gun control calling for more of the same.

[Superfly]

15. What big numbers!!!

In a country of 292,866,346 people Link...that represents 0.03% of the entire population, IF those "estimates" you posted are even close to actual.

Wow...blood is really flowing in the streets.

Here's a stat for you...since 1993 and DESPITE more states adopting CCW, crime involving firearms has DECREASED:



(And, for the computer illiterate amongst us, the link to that image can be found by right-clicking on the image and coppying and pasting the URL)

[Romulus]

16. don't forget how the 30,000 number is calculated

Namely, by lumping in suicides.

As if suicide by firearm is any less devastating than suicide by car exhaust. . . or that suicides will stop when firearms are banned from ownership by licensed individuals . . .

[MrBenchley]

18. Gee, rom, you mean they're not just as dead?

[Superfly]

20. No, they're extra-special dead

because an evil firearm was used...ooooohhhh...save us from the evil firearms! They have minds of their own!

[MrBenchley]

22. Hey, then put them on the keyboards....

Koresh knows the RKBA crowd seems pretty much mindless.....

[Wickerman]

28. You ever clean up after a gun suicide?

I much prefer folks who are considerate enough to gas themselves. Talk about devastating.

[Superfly]

29. That was the most wickedly funny thing I've read all day...

:evilgrin:

[Wickerman]

33. Funny?

You got a wicked sense of humor, dude! :wow:

[Superfly]

36. My wife says the same thing...

....

[FatSlob]

46. I once sold a house that still had the brains on the wall.

The guy was very inconsiderate and shoved a shotgun in his mouth. Home was later put on the market by the estate. Spray the wall with bleach water, let it dry, use sandpaper on the chunks, prime, and then paint. Only takes a little bit of time. The floor stains were a little bit of a pain in the ass.

on edit: The suicide meant my client was able to pick the place up very cheaply. 20% below market. Yes, it was very yucky, and unfortunate.

[demsrule4life]

48. Well you ever clean

up after some dipshit sits down in the middle of the autobahn? I would take an old fashined gun suicide anytime.

[Superfly]

49. Egad...thanks for a disgusting picture...

I did see the results after a motorcycle rider wrecked on the Autobahn. He was doing about 200 miles an hour and skidded to a bloody stop after about 200 yards. Ugh...

[demsrule4life]

53. It was an Army Spc

sat down in the middle lane of autobahn 5 next to Rhein Main AB. A month or so back a guy here in Huntsville jumped off the Jordan Ave overpass onto I-565. I have said it before and I will continue to say it, I support the right for people to shoot themselves in private. Otherwise more times then not they do it in public and place others in danger.

[MrBenchley]

17. In other words...

My assertion was right on the money, and yours was a load of hooey.

[Superfly]

19. How you came to that conclusion, nobody can tell...

Hey, I accepted your estimates and countered with proof that blood is not "flowing" in the streets despite more states adopting CCW laws.

Hey, but thanks for finally playing! Have a good one.

[MrBenchley]

21. It's easy, fly...

You've been invited three times now to back up your assertion and you haven't even tried to...

But if you don't think 90,000 shootings is enough to slake your bloodlust, there's little anyone can say....

[Superfly]

24. Dude, are you even reading this thread?

Here's my assertion:

CCW laws do not affect a rise in crime nor does it invite Dodge-city shootouts or rivers of blood in the streets.

I offered support of that assertion...do you want some more?

Well, here you go...

Despite more and more states adopting shall issue CCW, where anybody who qualifies will be given a permit to carry and despite 2 states abolishing any restriction on CCW, crime with firearms has decreased over the last 10 years by a large amount as evidenced by:



And, once again, the link is in the image...

[MrBenchley]

26. Gee, fly....

"Despite what the anti-RKBA crowd wishes and begs for"
turned out to be a big steaming pantload....

"CCW laws do not affect a rise in crime nor does it invite Dodge-city shootouts or rivers of blood in the streets."
Gee, but remember, the whole rationale for these idiotic statutes was that they would cut crime drastically as attested to by a pseudoscientific right wing crackpot bankrolled by the corrupt gun industry. As for "rivers of blood in the streets"...if 90,000 shootings a year don't suit your purposes, I'd hate to see what you would consider one....

[Superfly]

27. Gee, Bench

"pseudoscientific right wing crackpot"

Who are you talking about? There are millions of them, which one, specifically, are you referring to?

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, fly...

Which one wrote "more guns, less crime"?

[Superfly]

32. Don't know...you tell me?

And what does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

37. I'm Not Begging For A Bloodbath

I'm looking to PREVENT one.

[MrBenchley]

38. You'll notice fly hasn't even made an attempt to back THAT up

and that, just as I said, there are 90,000 Americans shot a year....

That's far too much bloodbath for me.

[CO Liberal]

39. But to Some Pro-Gunners....

....that's a "small price to pay" for freedom.

Tell that to the next-of-kin of those 90,000 victims......

[Romulus]

41. but some anti-gun-owners

would want the families of those saved by firearms to sacrifice their loved ones "for the good of society"

[MrBenchley]

42. Gee, rom....

The last time we had tales of people getting "saved by firearms" they were trying to save themselves from cops come to arrest them....

[CO Liberal]

50. I Don't Want ANYBODY Sacrificed.....

for ANYBODY or ANYTHING.

Kapish????

[Superfly]

51. What in the hell is Kapish?

Is that some sort of Moroccan dish? Or maybe a heretofore thought to be extinct ichthyoid?

[CO Liberal]

52. It's a Yiddish Word

It means "Do you understand?"

(Remember, I grew up in NJ, with a lot of Jewish friends.)

[Superfly]

54. Ohhh...you mean

"capice" a slangish form of "capito" from the Italian language.

Gotcha

[CO Liberal]

55. They're Similar

Many words were "borrowed" by other languages. Maybe I shold have used "comprende" - that may have been clearer.....

[Superfly]

40. I wouldn't have guessed that

the anti-RKBA crowd seems to draw pleasure from posting GITN stories. And the more there are, the better, as far as they can tell, because they somehow feel it supports their cause for gun banishment.

[MrBenchley]

43. Gee, fly

guess the rest of us don't think people getting shot is as much fun as you do....

[CO Liberal]

44. We Don't Post Them For Pleasure

We post them to show the insanity of maintaining status quo regarding this country's attitude toward guns.

[slackmaster]

6. Proportion of people with permits does not keep increasing

Texas has a wealth of statistics about permit holders. As has happened in other states, when the law was first liberalized there was a rush of people who got a permit just because they wanted it. Now about 1% of the population of Texas has a permit, and that has remained stable for years.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

A large majority of people don't want to carry a gun. Most people don't get permits even when they know they can qualify for one. And people with permits aren't all carrying weapons all the time.

[Romulus]

9. what I find amusing

is that there is a general call for "gun owner licensing" in the name of "societal safety" by the anti-firearms-owner crowd, but when people step up and adhere to the law and obtain a firearms license, the situation is then a "powderkeg waiting to explode" because there are all these licensed firearms owners out there . . . :freak:

Edited to add:
This phenomenon is why I use the term "anti-gun-owner" instead of "anti-gun." If anybody cares. . . .

[Superfly]

10. Good point...

Nicely said.

[MrBenchley]

23. What I find amusing

is that the RKBA crowd is desperate enough to post this THREE times....

And that anyone would try to portray these idiotic CCW laws as "licensing".

[subversive_derisive]

56. Most people don't get permits even when they know ...

And a whole lot more carry without permits. Kinda like drunks driving on suspended licenses - its only against the law if you get caught.

[FatSlob]

45. How has it worked in the thirty-something other states

that have shall-issue laws? I haven't heard of any waves of "Dodge City-style six-gun justice".

[RoeBear]

13. You gotta love politicians...

...We have two totally righteous self defense gun usages and we get this crap:


"State Sen. Gilda Jacobs, D-Huntington Woods, reacted guardedly to the two self-defense cases.

"We have to be careful we don't end up having the wild, wild west," she said.

"People should feel able to protect themselves in their own homes, there's some argument there," said Jacobs, who as a state representative voted against the concealed weapons law in 2002. "But do we want a bunch of vigilantes running around with guns to do the police's work?"
=========================================================
Other than protecting themselves from immediate harm where were either of these citizens doing "the police's work".

[pnb]

31. What an idiot

"People should feel able to protect themselves in their own homes, there's some argument there," said Jacobs, who as a state representative voted against the concealed weapons law in 2002. "But do we want a bunch of vigilantes running around with guns to do the police's work?"

I guess he doesn't have a problem with thieves running around doing whatever the hell they please.

[RoeBear]

34. Oh goody "there's some argument there,"

It's like "yeah there's this little tiny part of me that says it was ok for you defend yourself, but not really"

[MrSandman]

57. The duty of the police do not

include protecting individuals. No police work done here. Police did all the investigating and arresting.

[MrBenchley]

47. By the way, wasn't the whole rationale

behind this idiotic lame duck law that robbers would never dare to do what these robbers actually did? (In a word, yes...)