DC Snipers Originally had a Remington 700 in .308

[Withergyld]

Sorry this article is a moth old. This is the first time I heared about them having another rifle. I have not seen it discussed here.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001842255_sniper23m.html
From the Seatle Times:
"In his testimony during Muhammad's trial in Virginia last November, Dancy said Muhammad came to him in November 2001, said he needed a rifle, and gave him $800 in cash. Dancy bought the gun at Bull's Eye Shooter Supply in Tacoma. Over the next several months, Dancy testified, he, Muhammad and Malvo went several times to an outdoor Tacoma shooting range to fire it.
<snip>
The rifle was a Remington Model 700, a model commonly used by police sharpshooters and similar to the weapon used by U.S. Marine Corps snipers. When found in the Tacoma field, the gun was loaded with a bullet in the chamber and equipped with a telescopic sight and bipod, used to steady the weapon for more accurate shooting.
<snip>
The Remington, the weapon found in the field, is a 44-inch-long rifle that can be fired only after the shooter manually operates its bolt action, which ejects a spent casing and reloads the next round for firing. Its magazine carries five bullets. The rifle fires powerful .308-caliber bullets and can shoot accurately at distances of 500 yards or more.

The Bushmaster is roughly 35 inches in length and fires a .223-caliber bullet. It is an assault-style weapon that can fire as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger and can be fed with a 30-round magazine. While accurate at up to 250 yards or so, it is not commonly considered a sniper rifle. <more>"

I am certain they would have had more fatalities if they had used the Remington 700.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

1. Must have been on sale

To get a PSS, scope and bipod out the door for $800.

I agree with you, this rifle would likely have brought the body count up.

[jimsteuben]

2. if they renew the ban on "assauult weapons"

then they will undoubtedly target "sniper weapons" next, i.e., any rifle with a scope on it.

[alwynsw]

3. There's no doubt in my mind.

Virtually anything with optics will be the next target - especially electronic optics such as Red Dots and lasers because they "look" menacing. Hollywood isn't helping.

[ComplimentarySwine]

4. If something like that happens,

I wonder if the anti-AW hunters will finaly sit up and take notice that gun control really does affect them as well...


(edited for spelling)

[Columbia]

5. It could happen sooner than you think

Take a look at the Kennedy amendment to S.1805

It proposes classifying and regulating any round that can penetrate soft armor as armor piercing. Hopefully this kind of legislation is a wakeup call to hunters out there who think they are immune from gun/people control.

[slackmaster]

6. Imagine the muzzle blast from firing a .308 inside of a car

Ouch!

That may be one reason they switched to the much smaller .223 rifle.

[Paladin]

7. Not Again

Are you Gun Huggers really going to subject us once again to a clinical discussion of how much more damage the D.C. Snipers could have done with something bigger than a .223? Do yourselves and your cause a favor and don't sink to that level again, OK? Trust me, your speculating ad nauseum on how a couple of gun-wielding psychos could have attained a better than 11-for-13 kill ratio substantiates every negative notion your opponents have of you......

[FeebMaster]

8. You're right.

It would have been more ironic had they originally had a Winchester model 70.

[demsrule4life]

9. I guess he didn't get the message

[FeebMaster]

10. Hey! I just thought of

another way they could have killed more people. If they hadn't left the police notes and stuff basically telling them who they were who knows how long it would have taken the police to catch them.

[jhfenton]

12. "gun huggers"

That's a new pejorative to me. I've never been called a "gun hugger" before. I guess that's akin to environmentalists being called "tree huggers," but I honestly don't think I've ever hugged a firearm. I've also never hugged a car, a computer, or a house, even though I am quite fond of those things as well.

As for the "clinical discussions," perhaps if the media would stop calling Mohammed and Malvo "snipers," we could stop discussing how shooting innocent people at point-blank range doesn't make one a "sniper." It makes one a murderer.

If they would stop calling the rifle a "high-powered sniper rifle," we could stop discussing how the .223 Rem is a relatively low-powered cartridge effective only at short range.

[-..__...]

14. Malvo and Muhammed....

have become the poster children and God send of every anti-gun legislator
and organization you can name. The vultures needed something to feed on; well, they found it.

In one fell swoop, M&M gave them the scapegoat they needed; assault rifles, sniper rifles, shady gun dealers...doubleplusgood.

They would have been up shits-creek if M&M had used the .308 PSS. Yes, it is sold and marketed as a sniper rifle. In reality it's nothing more than any other Remington 700 (probably the number 1 or 2 most popular hunting rifle ever made). Slap a synthetic stock, bull barrel and flat finish on it and voila! You have a sniper rifle.

Brady/VPC/MMM would have had a real dilemma on their hands; they're real fond of saying that they they're not after our hunting rifles.
But, I guess they just would have modified their position by saying civilians have no business owning accurized hunting rifles with synthetic stocks and black finishes.

[alwynsw]

15. Duh!?!

In reality it's nothing more than any other Remington 700 (probably the number 1 or 2 most popular hunting rifle ever made). Slap a synthetic stock, bull barrel and flat finish on it and voila! You have a sniper rifle.

Isn't the Remington 700 the very same rifle that Sarah Brady bought her son for Christmas? If so, does that make her a purveyor of sniper rifles?

[Paladin]

18. Perhaps You Might......

....contact some of the families of the D.C. Snipers' victims and let them know that their loved ones were killed with nothing more than "a relatively low-powered cartridge effective only at short range." I'm sure such information would make their burdens easier to bear.

You guys really are your own worst enemies.....

[-..__...]

21. Perhaps we should contact them...

and make them aware how their tragedy has been manipulated and exploited by the parasites at Brady central? I'm sure Sarah has tried to ease their burden somewhat with promises of a big multi-million $$$ pay-off... minus the land sharks hefty cut and Brady Campaign expenses, of course.

[Paladin]

22. Prove It

n/t

[-..__...]

25. Maybe it's because I no longer have any faith in our justice system.

Or peoples unwillingness to accept responsibilities for their own actions; or in the case of the DC snipers, blaming the people who are directly responsible.

Lets face it, they're not asking for an apology as a settlement.

[MrBenchley]

30. Yeah, the families of the victims

are going to side with immunity for the industry that armed these psychos and resent those who tried to hold them responsible...NOT.

[solinvictus]

11. .308 vs. 5.56

Right now, there are US service personnel wishing for an M14 in Iraq. The 5.56 is great for what it is: a carbine. It's meant for close quarters combat and honestly, it's fairly ineffective when faced with minimal cover. More deaths? Yep, your darn right.

[Hrumph]

13. No, this just couldn't happen.

How many times have we heard that the police HAVE TO HAVE a database of gun owners so they can track down where weapons come from??? Something's obviously going on that we don't know about because surely there's no way the police could have tracked down this Dancy guy without such a database! Just cant happen without that "vital tool!"

Can it?


Hmmm.....

[Young Socialist]

16. you're right, since the gun never entered the normal system

it wouldn't have been caught in a national datbase. obviously what we need is a law prohibiting the theft of guns from gunshops. but wait, isn't that already covered? I guess that means we already have enough firearms laws.

[Hrumph]

17. What?

The dealer did everything right when he SOLD the .308. It's not his fault that it was a straw purchase.

You seem to have missed my point that the police were obviously able to track the Remington back to the man who purchased it EVEN WITHOUT THE GUN OWNER DATABASE. From what we are told by the anti-freedom crowd, the powers that be MUST have this 'vital tool' in order to trace these runaway guns.

[MrBenchley]

19. Yeah, it only took two years

and cost all those lives....But hey, what's public safety compared to gun industry profits?

[Young Socialist]

20. sorry I got it confused with the stolen bushmaster.

I don't think anyone really believes the nics records are destroyed like they're supposed to.

[slackmaster]

23. What NICS records?

No data about make, model, or serial number is ever sent to NICS for long gun purchases.

[FeebMaster]

24. There's always

bound books.

[MrSandman]

26. At least for the original purchaser...

Buy (slightly) used.;-)

or use the GSL.

[FeebMaster]

27. or build your own (nt)

...

[MrSandman]

28. GTG

[MrSandman]

29. On consideration...

Doesn't the USMC do that with the M40A3...That is a sniper rifle (gasp).

on edit: and a modified/hybrid Rem 700/Win 70.

[FeebMaster]

31. I believe they do (nt)

...