5.6 million guns sold through April 30th. On track for 16 million in 2011

[Logical]

This is based on NICS background check data which might mean more than one gun per background check. Of course some were denied but many less were denied than can be added for multiple purchases per background check.

1.3 million were sold in April alone. The biggest April in history.

Dear anti's, guns are here to stay. The less we fight this topic the less the nutty NRA and GOP can use it against us. Stop fighting a losing battle!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/copy_of_TotalNICSBackgroundChecks.pdf

[Orrex]

1. Perhaps you could lessen the fight by abandoning the term "anti's"

Just a thought.

[eqfan592]

2. Would you care to suggest a better term that is also short and sweet?

And no snark intended, this is an honest question. I'm not overly fond of "antis" either to be honest (though it does fit some on the board perfectly).

[Orrex]

5. I'll need to think about it a bit

By its very nature the standalone term "anti" carries a negative connotation, though, so some alternative should be sought.

[Logical]

7. Well, I am anti-GOP, anti-NRA, anti-war, anti-death penalty. Being called those would not bother me.

[Orrex]

12. Sure, but...

In those cases you're not being called "an anti." You're being called "anti-GOP or "anti-NRA" or "anti-war," etc. It's entirely different.

[Logical]

14. Well, since we are on the GUN forum I think everyone knows what anti means......

just like if we were on an Abortion forum the anti's would be anti-abortion. But if you give me a term that does not mask what they anti-gun people really are I will consider using it. Thanks!

[Orrex]

18. I appreciate your receptiveness!

One problem is that, even here in the Guns forum, it's not always clear what "anti" might mean. For instance, does it mean "anti-gun-rights?" Or "anti-gun-ownership?" Or "anti-assault-rifles?" Or "anti-illegal-gun-sales?"

You need to pick your targets more precisely, if you'll excuse the metaphor. Saddling the entire rhetorical opposition with the blanket term "anti" will lump together a wide range of divergent views.

I'll work on a term, though I'm hardly the authority on the subject...

[Logical]

21. True, many different views. Could get complicated. n-t

[eqfan592]

22. You do make a valid point here.

There are many that are, for example, pro-gun ownership but anti-concealed carry (in fact, I fell into that camp at one time). With that being said, however, I think the term "anti" is generally reserved to be used in reference to only those who are anti everything to do with firearms, of which there are a fair number of on this forum that post regularly here. But with that being said, I do agree that it would be nice to have a different term we could use to refer to such folks.

[Euromutt]

45. I try to remember to use "proponents of increased gun control" but it's a mouthful

Do note the "increased" there; there are very few people, and to my knowledge none on this board, who don't approve of some measure of gun control (e.g. restricting the ability of those convicted by due process of law of having committed violent offenses from possessing firearms, or those adjudicated to have a mental disorder that causes them to pose a threat to others' physical well-being, to possess firearms, and processes like the NICS check to prevent them from doing so).

But frankly, for the purposes of this kind of discussion, the term "anti-RKBA" doesn't seem particularly pejorative, provided we're talking about someone who advocates restricting in some manner the Right off all private citizens (not just those disqualified by due process) to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Logical]

4. Well, I am not sure any term would make them happy. I am open to suggestions. But...

how is anti's offensive? If the called me pro's it would not offend me.

They seem anti-gun to me. I seem pro-gun to them.

[eqfan592]

8. I think part of it is because "anti" brings up a mental picture like this for some...

...





Thus it may not be a bad idea for us to have some other sort of name for those folks. :)

[Orrex]

10. THEM!

[Logical]

11. Is that a picture from the Japan nuke plants? n-t

[eqfan592]

13. LOL!

Even though that is a very serious and sad subject, I have to admit that it made me laugh anyway. But then again I'm fairly tired and I find things to be much funnier when I'm tired. :P

[Orrex]

9. See my post above

"Anti" is a negative when used as a term unto itself, and when used by itself it implies an ad hominem attack on the person so labeled.

It's propaganda 101: either identify your rhetorical opponent as being anti the thing that you identify as good or else pro the thing you identify as bad.

[valerief]

25. Who's THEM? I thought we were US here. nt

[Euromutt]

44. "Them!" is the title of a 1954 film

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/

I seem to recall it was surprisingly good for a 1950's monster movie.

[badtoworse]

53. There were a few movies I watched growing up in the 50's...

... that scared the crap out of me - The Thing, Invasion of the Body Snatchers and Them.

[X_Digger]

54. The '78 version scared me silly..

[badtoworse]

55. "The Thing" was also remade (1982)

Both remakes were very good

[valerief]

24. + a gazillion

[cleanhippie]

30. OK, how would you label yourself?

Seriously. Pick a one or two-word label that accurately describes your position on guns, as demonstrated by your record of postings.


For my position I might choose pro-2A, pro-constitutional rights, or pro-personal protection, just to name a few.

So what label would you give yourself?

[valerief]

40. No. I won't play your game. I don't have to. And I'm not your enemy.

I'm tired of seeing people kill each other when they don't have to. People will always get angry. They should be punching each other in face, not blowing off heads.

[PavePusher]

41. A punch can kill. It's quite easy, actually. n/t

[valerief]

46. Not as often as a bullet and gun. nt

[cleanhippie]

42. Considering the nature of most of your posts, I would surmise that you think it IS a game.

Then, when put on the spot about your posts, you have decided to punt, and throw out a red herring for good measure.


I guess you only want to play YOUR game, huh?

[Logical]

43. And I will ask again, how are you going to remove 90 million hand guns from the USA? n-t

[valerief]

47. Stop selling them willy nilly. nt

[Logical]

49. And who in congress do you know who is wanting to ban gun sales?

[Euromutt]

51. If you "won't play the game," you don't get to complain when you don't win it

Or, to remove the analogy, if you refuse the opportunity to influence that choice of term used to summarize a position that you apparently hold, and you reject that opportunity, you thereby also give up the right to complain if the term that gets settled on isn't to your liking.

As for the rest of your post, I strongly suggest you read "The Myth of the 'Virgin Killer': Law-Abiding Persons Who Kill in a Fit of Rage" by Don Kates and Daniel Polsby (available in .pdf here: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/kates/Myth_of_the_Virgin_Killer-Kates-Polsby.pdf ), and if you feel like it, you might also read "The Right to Arms: The Criminology of Guns" (http://www.cardozolawreview.com/Joomla1.5/content/denovo/KATES_2010_86.pdf ). Note the latter piece is also by Don Kates, so it rehashes much of the earlier article.

I also strongly urge you to purchase or borrow a copy of The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. I will quote a passage from the chapter on domestic violence:

Though leaving is the best response to violence, it is in trying to leave that most women get killed. This dispels a dangerous myth about spousal killings: that they happen in the heat of an argument. In fact, the majority of husbands who kill their wives stalk them first, and far from the "crime of passion" that it's so often called, killing a wife is usually a decision, not a loss of control. Those men who are the most violent are not at all carried away by fury. In fact, their heart rates actually drop and they become physiologically calmer as they become more violent.

Even the phrase "crime of passion" has contributed to our widespread misunderstanding of this violence. That phrase is not the description of a crime -- it is the description of an excuse, a defense. Since 75 per cent of spousal murders happen after the woman leaves, it is estrangement, not argument, that begets the worst violence.

The point I'm driving at is that people very, very rarely kill each other in a sudden fit of rage. Even in cases where the perpetrator had no prior criminal history (as in spousal killings), it almost invariably emerges upon closer examination that the killing was premeditated and planned. I will state more strongly what de Becker, throughout the chapter, hints at, namely that the term "crime of passion" is a fiction, concocted by murderers and their defense counsels in a transparent attempt to downplay the severity of their actions.

And speaking as someone who's been punched in the face without adequate provocation* a number of times, I rather like having some options available with which to readily counter such aggressive behavior. I'm not a particularly physically aggressive person myself, and I have little interest in investing the time and effort required to become sufficiently good at unarmed combat to prevent injury at the hands of an aggressor. That's why I tend to carry pepper spray, and a handgun in case the pepper spray proves insufficient, or the aggressor escalates to lethal force (e.g. a knife). I have a low tolerance for bullies, and to be blunt, if some toss-pot eats a hollow-point because he won't keep his hands to himself, that's karma in my book.

* - On one occasion, a car driver took issue with my slapping his rear window when his car narrowly missed running me over on a pedestrian crossing. Another time, some guy with a chip on his shoulder and too much hashish in his system waited for me outside a movie theater after I'd asked him (politely at first) not to talk through the movie.

[rl6214]

50. Perhaps we could lessen the fight by blaming everything

on the nasty NRA/GOP as well. Everything is not a conspiracy as some posters here complain it is.

[eqfan592]

3. I couldn't agree more.

The sooner we stop wasting political capital on this issue, the sooner we can get to solving the real problems that plague our nation. When I think how much damage the dem position on this issue has done, it makes me sick. So many chances to make real improvements squandered in the name of ignorance.

[Vinnie From Indy]

6. Yay America!

N/t

[napoleon_in_rags]

15. That doesn't cover all the sales.

I can count the days on one hand since somebody told me they bought a gun from somebody else, without the background check. Pretty much everybody is arming themselves these days.

[eqfan592]

16. But sales such as those...

..don't actually result in a net increase in the overall number of civilian owned guns, as it is just transferring ownership of a gun from one civilian to another.

[napoleon_in_rags]

19. But in this case, it represents a growth in the number of armed citizens.

It was this guys first gun, he was proud. To me that's actually more important that the total amount in circulation in terms of evaluation or culture.

[eqfan592]

20. Ahh, good point!

I hadn't thought of it from that perspective.

[Logical]

17. True, still, the background checks show a constant growth. n-t

[Zoeisright]

23. That's just sick.

The plague seemed invincible in the Middle Ages too.

[hack89]

26. The big difference being

that as the plague spread, deaths did not decline.

[Logical]

28. +1000

[Logical]

27. LOL......I love these type of replies....

No useful information, no logic applied, nothing but a insult and then the poster moves on.

No anti here ever proposes a real solution to what worries them. Amazing.

[ileus]

38. There is only one solution to something you're scared of...

[cleanhippie]

31. Sick? Why do you consider exercising a right to be "sick"?

[DonP]

52. Congratulations!

You sound just like a typical Fundie talking about Gay Marriage. How proud you must feel about your prejudice.

[onehandle]

29. That's a big number.

Really large.

[oneshooter]

32. That also does not include those with a CHL acceptable to the BATFE

And do not have to be called into the NICS system.
Texas CHL is one of them.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Logical]

33. True, Kansas just made that change also. Good point! n-t

[eqfan592]

34. Is there a list of state CHL's that the BATF find acceptable somewhere? NT

[X_Digger]

39. Ask and ye shall receive..

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html

[Euromutt]

57. I gotta get me a Utah non-resident permit some time (n/t)

[slackmaster]

35. Sales from importers to C&R FFL holders, and from the CMP aren't included either

:-)

[ileus]

36. And that doesn't count the one I bought off my BIL earlier this year.

[DissedByBush]

37. Dang, 40,000 too many

Should have been 5.56

hehe

[Hoyt]

48. I don't mind be called "anti" -- been called much worse because I'm opposed to guns in public.

Most of the guns purchased are the same old folks adding to their collection/cache/whateveryouwanttocallit.

[lawodevolution]

56. I wonder if rapists support a woman's right to carry a gun in public.

[holdencaufield]

58. From "Lord of War"

"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11? "

A worthwhile sentiment...

[armueller2001]

59. My fiance and I did our part this year...

Both of us got our Texas CHL's and purchased compacts for portable self defense.