Guns in bars and restaurants bill passes Ohio House

[Logical]

Kansas even allows CCW holders to even drink as long as they are not above .08 which is the same limit as driving a car.

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The Ohio House on Wednesday passed a bill that would allow concealed carry permit holders to bring their firearms into bars, restaurants and other alcohol-serving establishments.
House Bill 45 was approved by a vote of 56 to 40.
The Ohio Senate passed its version of the bill, Senate Bill 17, last month. But instead of working off of the Senate's bill, House Speaker Bill Batchelder, a Republican from Medina, decided to bring the House's own bill to the floor.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/05/ohio_house_passes_bill_allowin.html

[sasha031]

1. what could possibly go wrong

[X_Digger]

2. You mean like in the other 43 states where this is legal?

[DonP]

3. The same thing that has gone wrong in all the other states that allow it - nothing

But feel free to share examples of legal CCW people causing trouble in bars and restaurants with firearms.

I'm gonna guess that you don't know anything about CCW or the laws governing it in Ohio or any place else?

Or are you just trying to be cute and funny and really missing the mark due to ignorance of any real facts?

[Logical]

4. Please provide proof it has caused issues. And please tell me you are not gullible....

enough to believe criminals do not bring guns into bars.

I don't seen any outrage about the criminals with guns from you.

[Oneka]

6. Last night

i went to the range, i had a beer, and then shot skeet.

I busted 21.

Then something went horribly wrong.

I had to run all the way back to the car, to get tip money for the puller.

[gejohnston]

7. how do you feel about cop bars?

and off duty cops getting plowed while armed?

[YllwFvr]

40. The cop bar near here

Is a gorgeous place. The prices are just a bit high. I bet there are a few guns in it.

[Euromutt]

32. Nothing that couldn't already go wrong

Somebody who's not going to follow a law that says he can't drink while carrying most likely won't follow a law that prohibits him from entering the establishment in the first place.

[rl6214]

5. I don't drink but there's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to

visit with my friends at a bar without leaving my gun out in my car.

[JohnnyRingo]

8. I'm a lifelong gun owner, and a one-time collector.

and I think the CCW craze is getting out of hand. To begin with, the law is completely unneeded because if I want to carry a gun I don't need no stinking permit. If I happen to be carrying and I don't use it, no one will ever know, will they? If I do need it, I won't care if I can produce a permit.

The CCW has become some macho piece of paper carried by people for reasons they don't fully understand to perform an act they would normally never dream of. Tough guys who think shooting someone is like watching a Bruce Willis movie are seriously deluded.

One of my best friends has a CCW that he obtained shortly after he recently became interested in firearms. One day he called to inform me that he was coming over to bring me a software disc he knew I wanted. As he was sitting on my couch with the program loading, he reached behind his back and proceeded to draw his latest acquisition for my approval. As I looked at him dumbfounded, realizing my home was his only stop that day, I asked him: "really Kurt?". "Did you really think that may have come in handy today?"

What's wrong with Viagra?. It's relatively harmless, and you likely won't put a new hole in someone who doesn't want one.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. I'm glad to know that some of your best friends are CCW holders.

A couple of questions for you:

1. Do you have any evidence to support your objections to greater issuance of CCW permits (besides one dumbass?)

Declining crime rates and the two states that publish detailed statistics about CCW holders (Texas and Florida)

seem to disagree with you....


2. Would you make that Viagra remark to a woman who wanted a CCW permit? 20-25% of CCW holders are women

(BTW, those pseudo-Freudian remarks about guns are so 1994.)

[JohnnyRingo]

11. Rest assured, I'm not a DU anti-gun advocate.

By coincidence or not, I think I've never slept in a house that didn't have a gun, and like my father I taught my sons the required responsibility and proper care of firearms. My youngest, now a collector himself in his mid 30s with sons of his own, is carrying on the family tradition of acclimating my grandsons with the hazards and safe operation of handgun ownership. He doesn't have a CCW either and sees no reason to get one. Like me, he figures if he goes to places where he may have to shoot someone, he should re-examine his lifestyle.

I have another friend who got his CCW the year they became available here in Ohio, and he began taking a new route to work, driving through a known drug traffic area. Another decided to get one because "Kurt" had one, and he suddenly, after 57 years of peaceful living, decided he is no longer safe without one.

Because I have an extensive knowlege of handguns (SA Colts in particular), I'm the go-to guy for my friends who have found a newborn paranoia when the carry law was enacted. I usually try to steer these newbies to a nice little .380 that is easily concealed and quite offensive at close range (when they'll usually need it) but less likely to cause the collateral damage a hot round will incur when they pull the trigger and shit their pants at the same time.

My ultimate advice to these friends who pack is that if someone puts a gun in their face, to hand over what ever they want and don't try anything funny. Hopefully, they'll go away if they get money. I don't want to lose friends who imagine themselves Clint Eastwood when they look in the mirror, and would even suggest they hand over the gun as well if someone has a nervously shaking pistol trained on them. If they shoot that person in the back as they flee the scene after the fact, they'll need a good lawyer, not a permit.

[Logical]

12. I would get a permit if you even want to carry it.......

You might have some major legal issues if you even need to use it and do not have a permit.

[JohnnyRingo]

37. I own an unfortunately abandoned house.

When I go there to check on the property I usually carry a gun just in case someone desparate is inside. If I really need to use it, it won't be something I'll regret not having a permit for. If police want to charge me with not having a permit, I'll hopefully still be alive to explain to the judge.

I hope that never happens, and I'll do what I can to avoid such a situation, including allowing them to flee with no shots fired. I had to hold a gun on someone once a long time ago, and I admit I was as nervous as they were (almost). I love guns, but I don't ever want to kill anyone.

[GreenStormCloud]

41. Benard Goetz was convicted for carrying a gun without a permit.

You remember him don't you? He was the guy who had been beaten and robbed in NYC. He got a gun and began to carry it. Then four young toughs were about to mug him and he fought back, shooting all four but killing none. One mugger left was paralyzed, the others recovered completely and went on to commit other crimes. The jury dismissed all charges except for carrying the gun. He served eight months in prison for not having a permit. Of course permits in NYC were/are reserved for the rich and connected. Goetz was later sued by one of the muggers who won a $43 million dollar judgement against Goetz.

To prevent such suits is why many states now have Castle Doctrine laws.

If you carry, get the permit.

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. Some better advice to your friends might be "Go get professional instruction...

...from a certified instructor". A SA Army is nothing like a modern semi-automatic, and knowledge of the relevant laws is

also crucial.

[JohnnyRingo]

18. I agree!

My one friend (a bar owner) to whom I tried to convince a modern .380 is a wise choice to conceal attended the required safety course here in Ohio. (I also advised him to buy a good quality auto so he could see a decent return on his investment when the novelty wore off.)

Upon completion of the course, he told me he learned two things: That the best way to prevent violence in a bar is to allow a "volunteer" to sit at the back with a double barrel shotgun, and that he needed a 9mm because "it's easier to obtain large quantities of ammunition". That's what he bought because the "professional" thought it was best. I had to ask him how many people he thought he was going to have to shoot before the bodies piled up enough to send a message to other assailants. I regret that he made no mention of the legalities of "shoot/don't shoot".

He now carries a bulky hand cannon that he probably can't handle, that will be heavier and harder to conceal, and will be more difficult to produce quickly. If he misses (he will) the patrons in the next store or an innocent in a passing car will also feel the protection a jacketed 9mm round provides. He will, however, be able to buy large quantities of ammo.

I know the difference between a single action Colt and a "modern" semi-auto. I have several.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. Hmm, guess I should have made that " ..professional, COMPETENT, instruction..."

Still, real life is not Lake Wobegon and in any group of several million people- well, not everyone can be the brightest bulb on the

lighting aisle. That includes CCW permit holders, it seems...


That aside, I note that your your guns are not a problem, but the ones of the 'friends' might be.


Do you believe that the incidence of CCW holders shooting innocent bystanders is a problem?

[Lursa CB]

33. Can you source me one instance....

of an innocent bystander being shot by a ccw holder who was using it for defense (of self or others) in public? I'm not aware of any.

[JohnnyRingo]

36. I see nearly as many instances of injured bystanders.....

as I do people firing a CW to kill a criminal while out shopping, dining, or walking the dog.

While that's pretty rare indeed, I'd go on to say that while many feel a CCW grants them the calculated kill instincts of Dirty Harry, the reality is closer to Barney Fife when looking down the looming hole of a shaking barrel. We as humans do not kill others without pause. It has to be taught, and a pause is all it takes to lose.

There's a reason even the highest trained professional hits only 10% when bullets are flying their way. During a close-in firefight magazines are usually emptied in seconds, and hits on target are exceedingly rare. Where the errant bullets go is pure chance.

[Lursa CB]

34. I have both........

...well, SA Colt 'replicas' and a semi-auto. 9mm

And the 9mm is my carry gun...no way would I carry the Ubertis. I chose 9mmm because **it was the cheapest defense-caliber ammo and because of that, I could afford to practice and train train train.** So cheap ammo is not an altogether dumb reason to choose a caliber.

[Lursa CB]

31. It's too bad

That so many people got excited by the change in laws, but carrying every day is a committment and a responsibility and not all that convenient. I bet that most that arent truly committed will drop the whole thing in a few months. I know that lugging around that heavy lump of metal/poly and keeping up on the laws and making sure that my daily agenda fits my carrying habits takes effort and forethought. True, it becomes second nature, but that takes some time too.

[gejohnston]

35. finally someone who shares

my love for single action revolvers, although I like the modern Rugers. But not for serious business. But then, I like the M1 carbine too.

[JohnnyRingo]

38. I always loved the single actions.

Though I had to sell most of them during tough times years ago, I still have a couple favorites and the accompanying western rigs. I seldom shoot them anymore but still recall the days me and my old friends could spend a day shooting then checking our guns at the bar afterwards. I never felt unsafe with an empty holster as we sat and drank, and don't know when that changed. It seemed the sane thing to do at the time.

My favorite gun now, and the one I've had the longest is my 1908 hammerless pocket model Colt in .380 caliber. It was built in 1922 and is as fresh and innacurate as the day it was made (LOL). John Dillinger carried one just like it and swore by it. Unlike my single actions, it fits anywhere and is quite intimidating. Somewhere along the line of personal protection someone started the myth that people don't mind getting shot with a light caliber and think they need a .357 or better. I disagree.

[oneshooter]

43. I have been known to concealed carry a SAA revolver

In a IWB holster. 4" in 45LC and Silvertips. Very comfortable to carry and I don't conceder 5 rds limits me too much. Got 5 more in a pocket.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Lursa CB]

30. Hi friendly iconoclast

If you think about it, in most states, **anyone that wants a Concealed Carry permit...has one.** The only exclusions are age (21), not being a convicted felon, and usually, some type of mental fitness check.

There really isnt much keeping most regular citizens from concealed carrying if they want...except in a very few states.

And yet, not everyone that can, does. It's a major commitment, a major responsibility, and not for everyone. So why are anti-gun people so concerned about 'more and more' people carrying? I dont get it.

And yes, thanks for pointing out that some of us are women! :-)

[spin]

10. No, you don't have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon ...

criminals do it all the time.

Since I am not a criminal and my state requires a permit to carry a concealed weapon, I spent the time, money and effort to get one.

If you live in a state that requires that you have a permit to carry a concealed firearm, it would be my advise to get one if you think there is ever a chance that you will need to carry a firearm. There is no requirement to always carry it and many people who have permits rarely carry. You may find that the police treat a person they find carrying a firearm much nicer if they have a carry permit.

I've known a good number of people who had concealed weapons permits and they don't strike me as wanting to appear macho or as having sexual problems that would require Viagra. Many of the people I know who have permits are ex-cops or military. I don't believe that they are hoping for a chance to shoot someone but they are probably quite capable of doing so if absolutely necessary.

[Logical]

13. +1

[Starboard Tack]

19. Beautifully said. Nuttiness in a nutshell!

We got lotsa would be gyros around here

[Lursa CB]

27. Wut?

1) What state do you live in that you dont need a permit to carry? Or are you either: living in VT or AK OR open carrying? Otherwise you are probably breaking the law and possibly ruining things for the rest of us legally doing so.

2) You know very little about who or why people carry concealed. Your 'expert opinion' certainly doesnt fit me.

3) Your last paragraph...why is ye carrying in your home? Cuz he doesnt want to leave it locked and vulnerable in his car? A big expert like you must have heard of this gun carrying mantra, "If I thought I'd need a gun, I just wouldnt go there." Meaning that you never know when you'll need to defend yourself.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. Viagra for my wife? Are you serious?

My wife got her CHL abut six years ago, and I got mine at the same time. She had a job working for her son-in-law that exposed her to hazard. Twice she was almost mugged. (I have previously posted details several times.) Both times the thug was scared off when he realized that she was armed.

Texas publishes detailed CHL statistics that prove that the people who get them are extremely safe.

Please don't be a bigot and smear about 10 million people based on what you know of two or three.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. is Kurt still your friend?

:shrug:

[ileus]

14. Congrats on your newly awarded freedoms Ohio...now get out there and dine with your family.

[JohnnyRingo]

16. I don't want to piss in the proverbial punchbowl, but

If you avoid taking your family to a resturant because they don't allow you to legally carry a firearm, I have to wonder what kind of Sopranos family bistros you frequent. Does junior provide cover fire while you flip tables to take up a defensive position? I'm from Ohio as well, and I can suggest some safe eateries with fine food.

As I point out elsewhere, I'm an avid gun owner who would rather believe the drunken tea-bagger I'm arguing with at the next bar stool isn't going to "protect himself" by shooting a commie sympathyser. Then again, if I'm legally carrying, I can always return fire from my newfound prone position in a pool of blood, but I'd rather avoid that whole sticky mess if legally possible.

I don't mean to be too critically snarky on this issue, but I never understood the value of a CCW permit, and I don't care to see drunks packing heat in a bar. I expect soon to see many bars and resturants with new signage at the door.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Your eateries are only safe if someone *doesn't* decide to rob them.

The thing is, there's nothing really stopping anybody from at least trying to rob any restaurant, as I've yet to eat in one

with metal detectors. Me? I'd be perfectly happy to eat at a restaurant with a NO ILLEGAL GUNS ALLOWED sign at the door...

[Starboard Tack]

21. So what happens when someone robs a restaurant you're eating in?

Do you keep eating, start shooting, reach for your cellphone, or what? I'd really like to know

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. Well, I wouldn't start shooting as I don't own a gun. I'd duck, run, or throw tableware.

I have no problem with someone else airing out the miscreants, if they were armed and so inclined.

[Starboard Tack]

25. How about standing up and yelling "Is there a toter in the house?"

So you enjoy being surrounded by guys who might be carrying concealed weapons. Aha. OoooKaaayyy!
Did you have a special childhood hero? Just curious. Mine was the Lone Ranger with Robin Hood and William Tell tied for second.

[friendly_iconoclast]

26. It hasn't been a problem in the 43 states that already allow this.

And after all, there wasn't anything stopping someone from carrying illegally in Ohio restaurants, if they had a mind to...

BTW, If you are an Ohioan and don't want to go into restaurants where there might be concealed handguns, your options are limited.

The only area adjacent to you where the practice is illegal is Ontario.

[rl6214]

29. I don't think most people would know what a "toter" is

since that is YOUR term along with a few others here. If someone called out is there a packer here, I would be happy since I am a Green Bay Packer fan.

[Starboard Tack]

44. LOL What should one yell then? Or maybe we should get under the table

[rl6214]

28. I would retreat away from the gunfire, grab cell phone and dial 911

Keep my gun concealed unless I am threatened my robber. Protect myself and people I am with. NOT try to go near robber as I am not a cop (or cowboy, batman, superman or any other type of super hero). If robber does come our way and I need to defend myself and family I will do so but I will not go looking for it, that's not my job.

[Starboard Tack]

45. I'm very glad to hear that

[GreenStormCloud]

42. Watch carefully, do nothing, be ready to act if the situation goes bad. N/T

[Starboard Tack]

46. Very good. Let's hope every toter acts like you

[rl6214]

20. WOW have you been reading the posts of one of our more

fervent anti gun posters here in the gungeon cuz your posts sound remarkably similar to his right down to the veiled insults and the ludicrous scenarios of cowboys training in the mirror and wild shootouts at your local eatery.

Tell these people that they were safe while enjoying there day at a local bowling alley, good part of town, no reason to suspect anything would happen.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Las_Cruces_Bowling_Alley_Massacre

On February 10, 1990, two gunmen opened fire in the Las Cruces Bowling Alley, creating a massacre that claimed the lives of a man, his two daughters and one of their friends and nearly killed Ida Holgun, Stephanie Senac and her daughter Melissa Repass. The shooters have yet to be identified, but rumor is that the men came in to rob the place and were hostile to discover so many people inside. The killers herded the people into an office before opening fire, and got away with over $5,000

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. Well, the CCW holders he describes seem remarkably incompetent....

...as well as borderline sociopathic, and he is long-time gun owner- but his guns aren't a problem, it's the ones other

people have that are implied to be dangerous.



All that's left to complete the picture is advocating for universal registration.