Fake firearms have police concerned

[waylon]

This is what makes cops nervous. My suggestion is that if you are over 12 and in a public place, you should be charged as if they were real guns. Aside from legitimate reasons to be in possession that is.



"February 19, 2004

On school campuses and on the streets, officers say they are confiscating an increasing number of "airsoft" guns that resemble real firearms.

Although the weapons may seem harmless – most fire plastic pellets or BBs – the challenge for police and sheriff's deputies is distinguishing whether they are fakes. Officers have drawn their weapons in some situations, realizing only later that youths were playing with replicas.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040219-9999-2m19guns.html

[displacedtexan]

1. My daughter dated the guy who owns the famous replica (gun) company.

I don't know why so many people want to own realistic-looking guns, but this guy's company in VA (www.guns.com) makes a fortune!

The owner is 25, a multi-millionaire, and his online company practically runs itself.

Go figure.

[waylon]

2. If folks are going to buy them...

They ought to be forewarned that they are subject to the same laws as real guns. Im not sure they are not already subject to those laws, but they should be.

[Superfly]

3. Why?

A "fake gun" is not a gun.

[Rainbowreflect]

4. How are the police suppose to know that until it's too late?

[Superfly]

5. Don't know...

but the primary responsibility is on the shoulders of the person "weilding" said object, whether it be a bar of soap carved to represent a gun, a cellphone held a certain way, or a replica gun.

If you don't want to get shot, do not use any object in a threatening manner. If any object is used in a threatening manner, then the officer is justified in using whatever force necessary to eliminate the threat he/she thinks is posed by the object he/she thinks is present.

For instance, we've seen the video of the officers shooting and killing a suspect weilding a cellular telephone, while attempting to flee, in a dark parking lot. From the video, I can see how the officers could easily mistake the phone for a gun, therefore they were justified, IMO.

[waylon]

6. Thats why i said folks buying them....

should be informed that they are subject to the same laws. Whether its a real threat or a perceived threat, the cops will handle it the same way.

I wouldnt let my boys tote one of those around. It just causes trouble.

[Superfly]

7. It depends...

When purchasing a functioning replica like an Uberti Dragoon revolver (a very nice BP pistol, btw), it is subject to the same laws as any other BP firearm.

When purchasing a non-functioning replica, it is not subject to the same regulations...at least I think so...

If you walk into a shopping mall with a couple of non-functioning hoglegs strapped to your hip, are you subject to the same rules of brandishing, CCW, etc? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

[waylon]

8. Cops dont need the aggravation....

And I would imagine urban police depts. would be more sympathetic to gun owners rights if they werent faced with those kind of incidents.

Good cop, here's your doughnut!

[demsrule4life]

10. Guess we shouldn't aggravate cops

so lets do away with the 4th and 5th amendments I always found those a hindrance while doing my job.

[waylon]

11. Elaborate please....

dont have my bill of rights handy

[Superfly]

12. Here you go...

4th amendment: freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
5th amendment: right to due process

[demsrule4life]

13. In a free society it is of no concern if cops are

aggravated or not. The 4th Amendment covers search and seizure of property, it would make cops lives much easier if they didn't have to get search warrants or have probable cause to make a search. The 5th Amendment basically covers the right of an accused not to make statements that would incriminate himself. In other words without the 5th cops could beat confessions out of subjects and use their confessions in court.

[alwynsw]

14. Fire up your AIM

[waylon]

15. I t hink that is beyond what I had in mind....

I was suggesting that if people are going to buy realistic replicas, functional or not, they should understand that its not up to cops to decide what the threat potential is, its up to the them.

Im most concerned with these punks taking them to school. My answer is treat it like an actual firearm.

[alwynsw]

16. Almost every school does treat them as real

at least in their disciplinary code.

[alwynsw]

9. It depends on your location at the time

I know that some of the more "enlightened' states, particularly in the Northeast and one that shall reamin nameless out west, have some pretty stiff pealties for brandishing facsimilies of firearms. (No fax jokes. It's too early.)

on edit; I simply MUST learn to type.

[MrSandman]

18. Brandishing, yes...

It is abou the fear of a resonable person. If it is that accurate a replication. CCW, probably not except in NYC or other local regs.

YMMV

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

19. I don't think

I don't think an airsoft pistol can get you hit with brandishingor CCW since it is not legally a weapon. It most likely WILL get you a disturbing the peace rap (don't even get me started on this catch-all violation) at a minimum.

Be foolish enough to point one at a police officer, you'll likely be ventilated for it. Point one at me, you'll likely be ventilated.

[MrSandman]

22. If you put another person in reasonable fear...

For their life or safety, it might be brandishing, even assault, and would most certainly justify their use of deadly force. That is the law in this state.

I have heard that there are restrictions on the legal colors of water pistols in NYC.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

23. Forgive me

I was working along the lines of a question posted above. If someone went to a mall with an airsoft strapped on, what would be the penalty. As of right now, in Texas, it would most likely end up being various degrees of disturbing the peace. Of course you could commit assault with it, but assault with a deadly weapon would be hard to prosecute unless the perp used the thing to bludgeon the victim.

But I do agree with you, point it at someone that doesn't know it is an airsoft and you will be taking fire.

**NOTE: I am not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night

[MrSandman]

25. I don't know about ADW,

but assault does not require contact in WV. If a fake gun, starter pistol, airsoft, etc. is used in a robbery it is armed robbery. A bat could be armed robbery.
Whether it is using a firearm in commision of a felony, I do not know.

[jhfenton]

17. I'm with Superfly

Anyone possessing a replica firearm must understand that he is subject to the same perception by others as if her were carrying a real firearm. So, don't threaten anyone in public. Don't point it at people in public. Don't carry it and act scary in public.

Of course, parents are responsible for their children.

I only own one replica firearm, a $20 plastic, spring-loaded copy of a Beretta 92FS. Other than the orange-tipped barrel, it looks real at a distance. I would never carry it in public outside my own yard. If I did, it would be concealed or in a holster.

Of course, I openly carry real guns in public all the time, since that is what is currently legal in Ohio. I've never had anyone call the police, because I don't look threatening. The gun never leaves its holster.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

20. Charged as if they were real guns?

As for allowing airsofts to be treated as a real weapon in the eyes of the law, well, it's a bad idea. How many people would the BATF have to crack down on for illegal flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, collapsable stocks, pistol grips, etc on these airsoft rifles that were obviously made after 09/94? Do they have serial numbers that can be used to prove or disprove date of manufacture? Would they also be subject to the NFA of 1934, the GCA of 1968 or the GOPA of 1986?

[waylon]

21. Thats more in depth than what I had in mind

I thought if a 13 year old kid takes one to school, dont leave it up to the superintendant to deal with it. Treat it like he was carrying an actual gun.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

24. But that's the problem

If you want to start treating airsoft rifles and pistols as real guns, you aren't going to like what you are going to get.

Say Johnny, a 13 year old walks into school with an Airsoft copy of a Beretta 92FS pistol in his backpack. The reason Johnny is carrying this is irrelevant once it is discovered. Here is a list of the things little Johnny can be charged with if these are treated as real weapons.

- Carrying a concealed weapon without a permit
- Carrying a firearm onto restricted property (school)
- Possesion of a restricted weapon (Handguns could be restricted in the area where Johnny lives)

The first two offenses above, were Johhny tried as an adult, could wind him up in jail for a decade or so. All because of a pistol that shoots plastic pellets.

I know you are trying to prevent kids from taking these stupid things to school, with the obvious goal of keeping them from getting shot accidentaly.

[Wickerman]

26. locking thread

original poster has not returned to further defend the thread.