If you are against Sunday Hunting can you please say why?

[Maine Mary]

Religious reasons?
You don't want to post against it?
You just hate hunting period.

I live in a State where it is not allowed. One of the only 7 left with this ridiculous blue law. Why do some of you hate the idea so?

_mm

[WonderGrunion]

1. I like the idea

that their is at least one day a week in the fall that I can take a hike in the 60 acres of woodland that I own in Maine without having to wear blaze orange vest so that some tressapassing asshole from Massachusettes doesn't mistake me for a deer.
Sigh, :eyes: but Maine changed that last year. So, now I bring a boombox with Drowning Pool cranked up on it with me. It scares the deer and pisses off the hunters.

[whocares]

4. This sir is illegal

and will wind your ass in jail!

[xchrom]

5. ya think so?

i'll bet this time next year will still find this person without a record for this ''offence''.

[WonderGrunion]

8. How

How is playing music on MY property, out of earshot of any of MY neighbors illegal. The nearest person living near me is nearly 1 mile away. One of the benefits of living in the sticks is that you don't have to worry about noise ordinances. However, if any hunter that has not recieved permission to be on my land wants to file a noise complaint, I'll happily take it and prosecute him for tresspassing. :evilgrin:

On edit: Don't you get the irony of playing Drowning Pool's "Bodies" during hunting season?
"Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floooooooooooooorrrrr!!!"

[alwynsw]

11. It's a simple concept

The rights of one stop when the infringe upon the rights of another. (Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose begins -as it was so appropriately phrased by another on this board.)

Enjoy your activities on your property. When the racket drifts over the property line and adversely affect hunters who are engaged in a legal activity by frightening the game, you have broken the law. It's illegal to interfere with a legal hunt. That includes doing things to deliberately scare game.

In closing, play it on your property and scare the deer. If I'm lucky, they'll trot past my stand for an easy kill as they're getting away from your boombox.

Disclaimer: The terms "I", "you" and their variants have been used only for clarity and brevity. This poster in no way construes the use of "I", "you", or their variants to refer to any member or associate of Democratic Underground, LLC, it's partners or owners. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

WWBBD?

[lcordero]

19. screw that

If a person has no reason to be close to me then that "nose" zone starts MY ARM'S LENGTH away from me.

[alwynsw]

21. Whatever happend to "Live and let live"?

sorry you either missed or ignored the point.

[lcordero]

22. Yeah, "live and let live" an ARM's LENGTH AWAY from me

It's reasonable to give up space on a crowded subway, but somebody getting up into my face on an empty street for any reason is unacceptable.

[Superfly]

23. And what would you do if somebody did

get "in your face" on an empty street and just stood there?

[lcordero]

24. Your guess is as good as mine

[alwynsw]

25. Ah! Argument for argument's sake.

Round two, please. Why so combative?

[lcordero]

26. combative? I thought that I conceded

:shrug:

[alwynsw]

27. I was referring to the fist and nose comments.

Granted, I used it first as an illustration of the delineation of where rights begin and end, but you seemed to like the idea of punching someone. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. If so, you have my sincere apologies.

[lcordero]

28. what I was saying was that the zones change with different situations

The "nose" zone is something that would apply on a subway at rush hour.
What I meant by the arm's length was that the "nose" zone increases to an arm's length because, in reality, a stranger has no good reason to be all close when there is an abundance of space in an empty street.

Apologies aren't necessary.

[lcordero]

29. uh no, I don't like the idea of punching people

I like the idea of keeping away from people at every opportunity:)

[RoeBear]

13. I should hope that a land owner...

...could walk to their hearts content with a boombox, on their own land. Off their own land; the state in question would have to have one of those anti harrassment laws in place in order for the boom boxer to get in trouble.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[Superfly]

14. 700,000 hunters in NY

700,000 hunters in NY state

and only 32 hunting related injuries and 2 fatalities....yet you feel unsafe wandering in the woods on your own property? :shrug:

[MrSandman]

15. How many were from falls, etc.?

Most are either falls or stress-related(heart attacks). Relatively few with firearms.

[Superfly]

16. The article I quoted in an earlier thread

titled "Hunting getting safer" or something to that effect, did not specify the cause of accidents. Probably some dumbass not using a safety harness with their climber.

[izzie]

2. The Right Wing are trying to get the deer in to church and this

would be unfair as they would be sitting deer so to speak? OK so I could not help my self. I just do not care and think the Blue Laws are sort of silly as I always have. If I hunted why not on Sunday?

[OneBlueSky]

3. in my 57 years, I have yet to understand . . .

how some people can get pleasure from killing animals for "sport" . . .

[DonP]

9. Not for sport, for dinner in many areas

Hunting has as much to do with getting out in the field at dawn with friends after a breakfast at a small town diner and walking the cut over cornfield with a good dog or two. Then you get to make fun of each other for shots missed or made and talk of past hunts and dogs that were great or too dumb to get out of the car when you called them.

FWIW every hunter I have ever met in my 57 years eats what they hunt, pheasant, deer etc. With the times being hard and jobs getting scarcer, people in rural and even suburban areas are using hunting to put meat ont he table. A processed deer and a pheasant or two, even rabbits fill a freezer for someone that needs meat.

There's also a practical side to hunting as well. With over 48,000 deer being killed by cars every year just in Wisconsin alone, 200,000 taken legally by hutners and the herd is still increasing in size, how else do we try and control the size of the herd?

Hunting may not be your choice, but a lot of people count on it. Don't assume that everyone that carries a shotgun is another Cheney or Scalia on a canned hunt. There are a lot of Dems out there in the field every season too, including our leading candidate.

[OneBlueSky]

18. you're obviously free to do as you please . . .

within the law . . . all I said was that I didn't understand it . . . I realize that most hunters eat what they kill but, for the ones I've known, putting food on the table is not the primary reason they hunt . . . they just like shooting and killing animals . . . and that's what I fail to comprehend . . .

[Columbia]

20. It's in our nature

Chalk it up to millennia of evolution.

[Hrumph]

45. The hunters I know

have much more appreciation for the animals they harvest that those who get no closer to nature than the meat isle at their local grocery store.

[enough]

6. From Pennsylvania

We still have all the blue laws in place here.

We also have a huge deer problem, to the point that they are destroying the natural "structure" of the woodlands by eating off all the young native species and leaving all the invasives. Natural succession is being circumvented. I understand how serious this is -- I see it everywhere.

That said, I do like to be able to go outside one day a week. We have always allowed hunters on our land and have a good relationship with them. But I think it's fair that the non-hunters have a chance to get outside and enjoy the woods every so often during hunting season (which is very long).

Perhaps if hunting season were shorter, this would not be a problem. I doubt that the hunters would want this. I breathe a sigh of relief every Sunday as I step outside.

[Redneck Socialist]

12. Rifle season in Maine is one month long

We are talking about four days. It might not sound like much but if someone only has weekends off that is 50% of their hunting time. The non hunting public has 11 months to enjoy the woods even if they are worried about hunters. Hunters only have that one month.

[DonP]

7. Pheasants have a right to worship at the cornfield of their choice?

In IL we can hunt on Sunday but car dealers may not sell cars on Sunday. Go figure? Each state gets to choose which incredibly outdated laws they want to enforce.

[MrSandman]

17. I have hunted for, umph, years...

It has always been the law. I gues it has to do with church. It is also illegal in WV to discharge a firearm on Sunday except at an established range. It never bothered me because there are more serious incursions on liberty. I wish this was at the top of the list.

[RebelOne]

30. I'm against hunting on Sunday and Monday through Saturday.

Hunting is a cruel and cowardly sport.

[Superfly]

33. Sez you...

So there.

[Township75]

43. And going to the Supermarket for your meat is brave and manly!

sarcasm off

[Maddy McCall]

31. I am an AI archaeologist. Have you ever tried to survey woodland sites...

when hunters are out? I can't begin to list the number of folks in my home county who have been "accidentally" shot. The only time I can get out in the woods without the threat of snakes is in the fall and winter. Also, there isn't as much flora in the winter.

Having ONE DAY a week when no hunters are in the woods gives me ONE DAY a week to do my job.

There is no "NO SUNDAY HUNTING" law in Mississippi, BUT most people go to church on Sundays, so I am more safe on Sunday than on any other day of the week.

[Superfly]

32. The reason you can't

"...begin to list the number of folks in my home county who have been "accidentally" shot"

Is because that number is probably ZERO

(700,000 hunters in NY state...30-something injuries and only 2 fatalities)

[Maddy McCall]

34. Actually, I can list them....

1) Guy shot another guy in a bush thinking he was a deer.
2) Grandfather shot and killed his grandson crossing a fence line.
3) Guy fell out of a tree stand...gun well with him, accidentally discharged, killed himself because the shot hit his femoral artery.

There are more...the ones above involved PEOPLE I KNOW.

These are just the injuries and deaths in my home county in the last couple of years.

By the way, I don't live in NY--I live in a state that is overrun by out of state hunters who think nothing about running their dogs across your property and shooting from the road.

Supervisors here are dealing with the problem--it's a subject of every fall and winter board meeting.

[Superfly]

35. You have a far greater risk of getting killed

driving than you do wandering into the woods during hunting season, so your fear is really unfounded. Wear blaze orange.

[Maddy McCall]

38. Maybe so...but I am smart enough to stay out of the woods here

when people are hunting.
*****************
A hunting incident/accident study published by the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks reported 47 hunting accidents were investigated in the state during the 2000-2001 hunting season. Of those, 32 were firearm or bow-related, with four resulting in fatalities.

The remaining 15 incidents were tree stand falls that resulted in one fatality, the report said. Overall, 71 percent of the incidents occurred during deer season, the report said.

The majority of the incidents involved shooters between the ages of 20-29 and victims in that same age range.

The leading causes for accidents were falls from tree stands, careless handling of weapons and people being mistaken for game, the report said.
****************

I really don't care if you think my fears are irrational. Someone has to be each of those 47 people--I would rather it not be me.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Superfly]

44. 200,000 MS hunters, 47 accidents...

The woods are SO DANGEROUS, what with all the nasty hunters and trolls hiding under bridges....

[slackmaster]

36. That's two gun-handling errors and one tragic act of clumsiness

1) Guy shot another guy in a bush thinking he was a deer.

That's the only one that qualifies as an innocent bystander getting shot, and I consider it a gun handling error because the shooter was not sufficiently aware of what he or she was shooting at.

Was the victim wearing an orange vest?

[alwynsw]

37. You beat me to it.

Your comment is on the money.

[Scout]

48. blame the victim, good

hunters are supposed to know what they are shooting at before pulling the trigger.

blaze orange or not, if you can't tell the difference between a person and a game animal, you should not be hunting/pulling the trigger.

[Superfly]

49. People should know not to

drink and drive, too, what's your point?

[slackmaster]

51. No blame intended

I was just asking for information.

[happyslug]

41. The older I get the more I want the blue laws back.

When the blue laws were enforced in my home state of Pennsylvania, families (especially poor families) had one day to do things together. Since the blue laws were removed (for all practical purposes) families members are on different schedules and rarely eat together let alone do things together.

One of the problems with modern families is this lack of "Acting as a family". Studies have shown the more family members do things together (even little things like eat dinner together) the closer the family members are. When most stores were closed on Sunday, people HAD to work together to prepare the meals for the day AND the members of the families were not working on Sunday so their could participate in family activities on Sundays. Sunday store closing made for a healthier society, by making sure their was at least one day of the week that the vast majority of people had off work.

Today, with Stores being open on Sunday (and many teenagers working in those stores on Sunday) there is very little time when all members of a family can interact as a family.

By the way, Sunday Hunting would encourage family interaction and I would be in favor of it, but if the price to closing stores om Sundays includes no hunting on Sundays, I thinks it is a price worth paying (And that goes for Baseball, Football and other sports).

As a society we need to try to keep family relationships up, instead we prefer to keep profits up (i.e. store being open on Sundays). We need to encourage more family interaction and the best way to do so is to closed the stores on Sunday.

[RoeBear]

42. Family time together should be the law of the land...

...people should not just be encouraged to have quality time together they should be required to. And if your 'holy day' doesn't happen to fall on a Sunday that's just too bad, change religions.

[Hrumph]

46. Pesky 1st Amendment problem there. (n/t)

.

[happyslug]

50. First Amendment?????

Where did I mention religion in my post? I made an effort to AVOID it. Remember just because a Religion says something is a sin does not mean that the problem is NOT also a Secular (i.e. Non-religious) problem. For example, most (if not all) religions call Murder bad, that does not mean when a State calls Murder Bad, that the State is enforcing RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS.

The Supreme Court has long acknowledge this duality, in that the mean fact that a religions opposes something (or supports something) does NOT by itself make the issue a first amendment issue (the most recent case being peyote and anti-drug laws. American Indians claimed the right to use peyote do to religious reasons, but the Supreme Court ruled the anti-drug law is a GENERAL LAW not one aimed at Indians and therefore smoking Peyote is NOT protected under the first Amendment). Similar attitude to religion and the enforcement of general laws have upheld the baning of Jewish Scull caps from being worn by observant Jews if their are in the Military, sacrificing live chickens from various Caribbean religions even enforcing Zoning laws against the building of Churches in Residential areas, and even the recent decision by the California Supreme Court enforcing California law requiring anyone providing medical insurance to include birth control even if it is a religious group that oppose birth control (among other cases where Religion and the enforcement of General laws come into conflict).

As to Sunday Closings, Sunday was only picked by the Christians under Constantine because the Sun Worshipers of his time period (who still had a sizable number of followers) wanted every other Sunday to be their Holy Day. The Christians only required ONE DAY A WEEK to be their day of rest, it did not have to be Saturday. Thus to accommodate the Sun Worshipers the Christians made Sunday their Holy Day (The Romans had a 14 day week prior to Christianity, our names for the days of the week are Germanic in origin do to the Germans having a five day week. When the Germans became Christians they added Sunday and Saturday to their Week to make it Seven).

Thus Sunday closing is NOT Christian but the product of a need for families to have one day together AND the sad fact the only way to guarantee such family meetings is if almost all people were off work. The Ancient Romans used a 14 day cycle, the Ancient Germans used a 5 day cycle. Each had at least ONE DAY OFF in their weekly cycle so that people can be together with their families.

This need to be together, even if it is no more than watching dad clean his car, has tremendous value. People get along better if their have something in common and that commonality can only be achieved if they are together. Remember the OJ trial? All the Conflicts of the Jury members during the trial? The jury members had nothing to common to talk about (except the trial which they were forbidden to talk about). This lack of commonality was the cause of the conflicts NOT the conflicts themselves (It should be noted all the conflicts ended as soon as the Jury members could talk about the one thing the jury members had in common, the guilt or innocent of OJ. Remember how fast they decided on a Jury Foreman, seconds when people would thinking it would take days on that issue alone). People work better together the more they work together.

The same things with families, the family that works, plays and eats together is closer than the family that pass each other as they go from each of their work/school and rarely have time where they can learn to work and live together.

Thus my support of Sunday Closings is NOT religious in Nature (through religion does support it) but based on my belief that a healthy society has healthy families and healthy families only exists when members of that family work/play/eat together on a regular basis.

[Hammie]

47. The Saturday hunt drives the birds away.

It takes a couple days for them to filter back. Everyone know that Wed and Sat are the only days worth hunting.