The Pink Pistols

[La_Serpiente]

The Pink Pistols

Erik Piepenburg heads off to a shooting range in Cleveland to explore a small but growing trend: gay people with guns

Like many gay men who live in New York, I don’t own a gun and I don’t want to be around one. Even though I’ve lived in urban areas half my life, I’ve never even heard live gunfire.

With guns and gun culture as familiar to me as a Hooters menu, my mental image of a typical gun owner is pure cartoon. I picture a right-wing, violence-prone straight man compensating for a dangerously small penis.

It never occurred to me that the person with the finger on the trigger might be gay. “Gays have been taught that guns are irredeemably evil and that anyone who associates with guns is tainted,” says lesbian gun owner Gwen Patton. “It ain’t necessarily so.” Patton is the national spokeswoman for the Pink Pistols, a group of GLBT gun owners and their straight allies who get together to practice shooting and teach gays gun safety. Although the group keeps no official membership records, there are currently over 30 active U.S. Pink Pistols chapters, with more expected to launch this year.

more...

The Pink Pistols

This is not the entire article. Buy Out magazine to read it.

[FeebMaster]

1. uh oh

duck and cover

[alwynsw]

3. Chicken!

[Bertha Venation]

5. hey, you

:hi:

Been reading what you sent me a few weeks ago, thinking it over.

Mulling... mulling....

[alwynsw]

6. Glad to see ya in the Gungeon

Take your time. I'll be here.

[alwynsw]

8. PM me if you have any questions

:toast:

[Bertha Venation]

9. you know I will

Thanks. :toast:

[alwynsw]

2. Thanks for reviving this one.

I'm straight and I joined PP. It's a support thing.

Some of us are trying to get a Louisville, KY chapter going. Makes sense. We have the perfect place to shoot at Knob Creek.

[Lazpash]

50. Hey - we should talk ;)

I read your post about "Some of us are trying to get a Louisville, KY chapter going. Makes sense. We have the perfect place to shoot at Knob Creek."

The Central Ohio Pink Pistols (which I'm currently heading up - AND who has also started both the Dayton and Cleveland Area Pink Pistols)

Has been putting "feelers" out for Cincinnati and Lima and possibly Youngstown and Toledo. And as I have received a couple of "bites" from folks from KY (can't recall where in KY - still) we figured after we had "hit" all the main cities in Ohio, we'd help KY.

Probably won't be until May or June for the Cincinnati group to start, but I'm more than willing to give you ideas and the like ...

Plus I make a mean flyer ;) (Plus I've been in graphic Arts for years, so I know lots of "tricks".

I WOULD have sent this privately - but I don't have enough posts to do so. :(

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ardrhi]

53. Let me know.

When you're ready, drop me an email and I'll set you up on the PP website and everything. I'm one of the webmistresses.

---Gwen

[alwynsw]

57. Will do!

Thanks!

[alwynsw]

61. email sent

[Bertha Venation]

4. Lesbian gun owner Gwen Patton is full of crap.

"Gays have been taught that guns are irredeemably evil and that anyone who associates with guns is tainted" -- :wtf: GMAFB.

I wrote to Ms. Patton:

"Dear Ms. Patton:

"I hope to learn on what you based your generalization about what 'gays have been taught' in the March issue of Out Magazine.

"Eric Piepenburg quoted you as saying: 'Gays have been taught that guns are irredeemably evil and that anyone who associates with guns is tainted.'

"When were we gays taught this? Did they sit us down en masse in kindergarten or Sunday School?

"I would agree if you'd said, 'Perhaps because our politics tend to be liberal, most gays seem to align themselves with the anti-gun crowd.' But in a single statement you've made gay folk sound like brainwashed idiots -- which is what most pro-firearms activists seem to think of anti-gun activists, anyway. Well done; you've perpetuated yet another gay stereotype.

"If you've time, please let me know why you chose to make that strange sweeping generalization."

"thank you, signed, etc"

I'll let you know if I get a reply.

[alwynsw]

7. I understand her statement if she's driving home a point

but it's a little over the top.

[DonP]

10. She's overstated but ...

I think her point is that being anti-gun is just one more stereotype she has to confront with less than open minded people on both sides of any issue.

She might just be over the top to try and shake people up a bit with their own firmly held beliefs about; "All Gays are ... (fill in the blank)".

But, as we have all been told repeatedly, this isn't a real gay organization anyway, in spite of a regular series of articles and reports from the media. Since they don't spend all their time railing against a carefully defined set of homophobic groups and just focus on the 2nd amendment and gun training they can't be.

(Did I get that right guys?)

Nice group of people and some damn good shots in the local chapter.

[Bertha Venation]

16. Hopefully, she'll write me back

and explain what her motive was for using that particular soundbyte. As I said, I'll post her reply.

Good sarcasm, btw. You're right: unless we try to piss off those who hate us, we're not "real" gay groups. :eyes:

[DonP]

28. Thanks for catching that note in my note

I help teach firearms safety and marksmanship for a local PP group about once every other month. Monthly in the summer.

Since we are near the People's Republic of Chicago, and no guns are allowed, we spend a lot of time talking about the legal implications of using deadly force (we have a lawyer come in for that discussion) . IMHO it has as much to do with confidence building as it does with marksmanship.

The recent Wilmette self defense shooting issue is still a major point of discussion.

I just think it's sad that people that espouse being progressive have a very narrowly defined set of standards of behavior that other must follow to meet their definitions.

We have a real mix in the local group. A lot of gay men, some lesbians and some plain old straight women that just wanted to learn to shoot. Some are probably conservative, but that's not the issue.

Politics is almost never an issue for discussion, except in terms of legal restrictions on owning or carrying. We still have some folks here that either can't believe that or are more comfortable embracing vintage stereotypes of their own.

The primary function is to learn to use firearms safely and well. Their motto; "Armed Gays don't get bashed" kind of summarizes it.

I'll watch for her response.

[ardrhi]

51. Chicago???

Do you know Uncle Tommie Parker?

-- Gwen

[DonP]

65. Heard the name

I live way the heck down on the far Southwest side, Will County.

Most of the folks live up in the city proper. (most in neighborhoods where I couldn't even afford the taxes, yikes!)

Glad you're here.

[alwynsw]

18. Right in the 10 ring, Don

Some would have us believe that this is a fictitious group, founded by right-wing gun fetishists to promote the corrupt gun industry's agenda of blood in the streets.

I know better.

[NorthernSpy]

14. yeah

Uh huh -- and her comment fits with the general tone of the article, which irks the hell out of me. I'm violently allergic to anything that boils down to this: all my life, my liberal minders have told me that (fill in blank), and sweet little dumdum that I am, I believed them; but now, watch me throw off my mental shackles and embrace (usually either a fishily reactionary opinion or some particularly inane item of conventional wisdom).

Sure, I'm exaggerating here, but not by much. Articles that follow this pattern are practically a genre of their own in the "alternative" media. Those who write them always seem so puffed up with pride at their bravely taking on the straw boogeymen of the small, underfunded American Left in order to break all those dreadful supposed taboos that the Left hasn't got the power to impose on anybody anyhow. Yessir, these folks do us quite a service in guiding us to Liberation ... by joining the already deafening chorus of media voices persuading us to adopt the beliefs and attitudes recommended to us by the most powerful factions of our society: how very groundbreaking of them!

Whatever. Anyway, there is no sadder conformity than the kind that advertises itself as rebellion.


As for Ms. Patton, I understand her utterance less as a supportable statement of fact, and more as an attempt to persuade by giving anti-rkba readers a way to credibly and honorably disown their opinions. It's a technique of persuasion, and it probably even has a name. In any case, the point is to convince the listener that:

1. his current opinion is wrong, because
2. the perceptions and facts that underlie his opinion are incorrect, ultimately because
3. the source of these perceptions and facts has an Agenda, and
4. if he had known this, he would not have reached the opinion that he holds: therefore
5. his opinion is not really his own, and so can be abandoned without emotional discomfort.

All this is to induce the listener to take an "open-minded" stance (which the persuader will be sure to recognize and praise until the listener has adopted the persuader's beliefs -- after which, naturally, further open-mindedness becomes a threat to the persuader, who will then make appeals to firmness of principle, or something).


Of course, Ms. Patton has every right for argue for rkba. I do that myself. It's just that I don't much like arguments that resemble propaganda, or that invite people to adopt new opinions by disavowing any responsibility for their current ones.


Mary

[Bertha Venation]

17. In other words, her statement is one big fat

logical fallacy, from beginning to end? ;)

Don't hold back, Mary. Tell us how you really feel - and welcome to DU. :hi:

[NorthernSpy]

19. I know, I know...

Okay, I know I'm reacting an awful lot to an awful little in this case. And I can't even comment on anything else she may have said, 'cause I'm too damn cheap to buy the magazine. ;)

It's just that it seems as though there's no getting away from that faux-iconoclastic, "recovering liberal" ploy. God, it just bugs me so much! The Left has very little real power in this country; puffing it up into some kind of Kommissariat that can actually dictate people's opinions is silly in the extreme. Even a hint of that turns me off completely. Hey -- everyone has peeves, right?


And thank you for the welcome! :hi: I've mostly been posting here (and in the lounge a few times). I think you mentioned that you're new to the Justice/Public Safety forum? It'll be nice to have you around. :)


Mary

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alwynsw]

21. Accent?

With a WV accent, many will underestimate you. Sometimes you use it.

It's amazing when you don't mask your native accent. My Kentucky twang has served me well on many occasions. It kills me when people hear my accent and automatically assume I'm an idiot. It's even better with Ms. alwynsw. She's the smart one in the family. How many folk do you know that had a triple major (English, Earth Sciences, and Education), got the masters thing done and had started a teaching career - or any career for that matter - before their 23rd birthday. Oh. And she did it while working as a hotel maid to pay her way through school.

Nah. I'm not proud of her. Not one little bit.

She supports PP, too.

[MrSandman]

22. A KY native nailed my accent...

While I was interning in OR. They seemed offended when I asked if they were from eastern KY.

[eileen_d]

24. Wow - you read my mind

The kind of argument you are describing - it irks me to no end, and you have analyzed perfectly

BTW - I don't even have a stake in the RKBA issue - I just like to lurk here! :hi:

[NorthernSpy]

71. merci

Thanks, Eileen_D! :)


Mary

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. That, ma'am, is sig line material!

"There is no sadder conformity than the kind that advertises itself as rebellion."

That's a quote worthy of the Greats. I'm adding it to my sig line.

[NorthernSpy]

73. gosh...

It's really nice of you to say that, JCCyC! I'm really tickled that someone thinks I'm quotable. :)

Y'know, whenever I write anything, I always fret about whether I might be reciting something I've read without realizing it. It's all the fault of that damn lecture on plagiarism we all had to attend as freshmen at my university. It was a fine sermon in the style of Jonathan Edwards, and even to this day I'm terrified of ever screwing up and committing the Deed.


Mary

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

84. Don't they all? (nt)

[ardrhi]

30. *smile*

Oh, I don't know...I do get a lot of fiber in my diet.

I see you posted my reply to your letter. If anyone has any further questions for me, I would be more than happy to discuss my point of view with them.

--- Gwen

[alwynsw]

32. Welcome to DU, Gwen

PP has received quite a bit of attention here lately. The group definitely has supporters. I'm one!

[alwynsw]

33. Sorry for the second post, but

Feel welcome to hang around the Gungeon as much as you like. We RKBA'ers can always use another voice.

I have to know. What's your preferred handgun? Typical guy here, .45 ACP, Colt, of course - my wife likes the 9mm Ruger P-89.

[ardrhi]

37. No huhu...

Hey, I can talk about gunzuh all day...*grin*

I have a wonderful Hungarian clone of a Browning Hi-Power 9mm that I carry when I'm not concerned about size and weight, and have a smaller .32 H&R Magnum revolver when I am. I also have a couple of other little mouse-gun pistols for plinking. But I *love* a good .45, and would dearly love to get my hands on a Springfield or a Kimber. But I wouldn't turn my nose up at a S&W model 625 .45acp revolver with full moon clips, either. They're FAST to reload, and the clips don't cost $60 a crack...only a few cents each in bulk. But it's BIG. I might wait for the new scandium-frame 625 with the 2" barrel. Weighs half as much, designed for carry.

Glad to meet you all.

-- Gwen

[alwynsw]

38. After reading that post

Half the guys down here will want to have your children.


edited to add: It's only a trite, somewhat sexist bit of praise. (That's for all of you who take me too literally.)

I prefer the Colt. Looking hard at the Taurus Milennium, though.

[Superfly]

40. Taurus? You must be shitting me...

I thought you were a connoisseur of firearms, and here you are thinking about the "Natty Light" of handguns. C'mon man!

[alwynsw]

42. Not at all

I figure at $350.00 and reliable, it won't mind living in some of the places I'll put it. You know - country boy, pickup truck, tackle box, etc.

Aside from that, I'll stick with my Colts.

edited to add: One thought on my Weatherbys: OUTFRIGGINSTANDING! Same for the Benelli.

[Superfly]

43. Which Benelli?

I am thinking of selling my Browning Gold 12 ga for a Benelli Super Black Eagle.

[alwynsw]

49. You'll like it, but keep the Browning if you can

I's like parting with a kid to let a Browning go.

I got these Benellis:
On the bottom


On the top

[ardrhi]

60. *chuckle*

D'you know how often I hear that? Goils that love gunzuh aren't all that common, so it would seem we attract guys like sugar water attracts hummingbirds.

I think the phrase Heinlein once used is appropriate: "like cantharides on a bull".

But it takes a real exceptional guy to cock my hammer, so to speak. And children just are NOT in the picture. Not even with long-range sensors. You couldn't find 'em with a stargate. Not interested. My partner's children are parenting enough for me.

I used a Taurus Millenium once. It was tweaked pretty heavily, though. Nice gun. Accurate as all get-out, but I'm not crazy about 'em enough to buy one. Rather get a Rock Island Armory 1911, if I had to get something. If I'm going to get a new gun, I'm going to get something bigger than a 9.

---Gwen

[jhfenton]

62. An obvious sci-fi nut too

There were way too many gratuitous sci-fi references in that post. :)

I'm sure there is some connection between firearms and sci-fi, but I'm not sure what it is.

[ardrhi]

66. Gratuitous? ME?

Never.

Gratuitous would be me plugging my new Sci-Fi book, available on Amazon, but I'm not going to do that, because that would be against the RULES.

*WEG*

Can't help it...I write the stuff. But I do it in private and wash my hands afterwards.

--- Gwen

[DonP]

69. I recommend the Springfield Armory Mil Spec 1911

The RI's are nice guns, but if you can find one, the Spriingfield Armory 1911 Mil Spec model is a very true to life replica of the original slabsider.

They can be had used for under $300 and new for only about $400 if you shop carefully and aren't in a hurry.

The slide has a slightly looser fit than a lot of the current modified models but that's the way JMB designed it for greater reliability.

The sights are kind 'o sucky to some folks but they do the job for me. Thousands of rounds downrange and never a misfire ... except with some damn WinClean ammo that has a flat nose the kept jamming on the feed ramp. When in doubt use ball.

All this and Heinlein too. Ah, what more could you ask for in a new member.

[jhfenton]

46. Welcome aboard

Welcome aboard, Gwen. I'm delighted to see you here.

I'll have to check out the snubby S&W 625. I don't think I've seen one of those yet. That might have to go on my "list."

[ardrhi]

48. 625 snubbie

It was in Guns & Ammo a few months ago. It's on the S&W site, too. Look up the model 625. There isn't a separate listing for it, it's just another type of 625, shown under the original on the page. I saw one listing a while back that claimed they were going to call it the 325, but they must've changed their minds.

--- Gwen

[jhfenton]

56. 625 snub

That is one pretty little revolver. :)

It's going to cost a pretty penny too when you can find one for sale.

[alwynsw]

58. Bet it won't be as bad as my 500 was

OUCH! But I just HAD to have it.

[beevul]

68. Welcome to DU!

[MrSandman]

74. Welcome aboard...

If you like the SA/DA, get a Sig p220. If you like the SA, let the 1911 and the p220 co-mingle and get a Sig GSR. I like my 220st, though. No manual safety to get in the way. :-)

Seriously, it is good to meet you.

[Superfly]

34. Welcome aboard

Glad to have you on DU!

[DonP]

35. Hoorah and welcome!

Always good to have someone willing to speak their mind and stand by to defend their POV.

Welcome to the Gun Dungeon.

Now, to the important stuff, what do you shoot?

(Inquiring fellow liberal/progressive shooters always want to know so we can immediately criticize your choice of 9mm over .45, or vice versa.)

Ha!

Don P.

[Columbia]

36. Welcome aboard!

Glad to have you here! Enjoy the fireworks!

:toast:

[Bertha Venation]

39. Yahoo! Hey, Gwen!

:hi: In case you couldn't tell, I bristle at stereotyping. I'll answer your reply -- and I thank you very, very much for it. I appreciate the time you took. Briefly: I'm not a bit surprised that the article's author was so choosy and it's clear I've more of a bone to pick with him.

BTW, what brought you to DU?

Also BTW, I don't own any firearms and don't know if I ever will. My partner is adamant that we shall never have one in our home. I have had a loaded one held to my head, so that may give you a quick view of my POV.

Must work now - more later.

[ardrhi]

44. Bwahh-hahh-haaa...

My spies are everywhere! I have a microphone in your toothbrush and a video camera in your box of Oat Bran! *WEG*

Seriously, after you sent me that note last night, one of my members sent me a URL to this site saying we were being talked about. She didn't know about you writing to me, or that I had replied. I thought it would be a kick to register and chat with y'all.

My partner has a 9mm I got her for her birfday. *grin* She helps me run the Delaware Valley chapter of the Pink Pistols. I haven't had a loaded gun to my head, but I have been at knifepoint. And I've been beaten nearly to death before. I do not recommend either as a learning experience.

--- Gwen

[Bertha Venation]

63. How did you become

the Pink Pistols' spokeswoman?

Was your partner like-minded before you met, or is she a "convert?" :)

[ardrhi]

67. Well...

I've known Doug Krick, the Founder of the Pink Pistols, since 1988, back when we both lived in the Chicago suburbs. We've run science fiction conventions together, and know each other well. He knew my strengths, and my ability to motivate people. When I moved out of gun-unfriendly Illinois to gun-friendly Pennsylvania six years ago -- to live with my lifepartner -- I didn't really have guns on my mind. I had resigned myself to gunless life in Illinois.

But when I saw an article about the Pink Pistols, and saw his name, I contacted him. He was in Boston by then, and the organization was starting to snowball. There was no chapter in the Philly area, so he suggested I start one. My partner was pro-rights and had just never gotten around to doing anything about it, so we explored it together. It was one of the first big projects we did as a couple. (It was actually the second...the first was getting our amateur radio licenses together. Geeky, huh?)

As the organization got larger, there was more and more need for a single point of contact with the media, and Doug liked the way I handled myself with them. I *enjoy* talking with them, while he finds it something he can do, but it is not something he seeks out for fun. So after a time, he asked if I wanted to make the unoffical role of "press secretary" an official one.

And here I am.

--- Gwen

[NorthernSpy]

70. hello

First: Hello.


Now, you wrote:

I see you posted my reply to your letter. If anyone has any further questions for me, I would be more than happy to discuss my point of view with them.

Well, no, I don't think I have any questions for you at the moment. Between the excerpts from the article and your reply to Bertha Venation, I think that there's better-than-ample support for my original judgement of the quality of the rhetoric you've employed.

I appreciate that you have come here to answer our questions, and I would like to oblige you with a few, but I honestly can't find anything in what you've said that is novel enough to warrant enquiry. Liberal-baiting is by no means a rare thing in American politics; I am never surprised to see it. Even when it crashes our gate here at DU with a host of straw men in tow, ready to party.


Mary

[Lazpash]

72. Liberal-baiting?

Someone comes here to address you directly, asks if you have any Q's - and that's "liberal-baiting"?

Okay .....

[alwynsw]

75. Once again, welcome to DU

you and Gwen are much-needed additions to the forum, IMHO.

[Lazpash]

77. "Once again, welcome to DU"

Yeah, but I'm WAY liberal - with the one little exception. Although I see a NEED for taxes, here in Ohio they're ALL getting a tad slaphappy about `em.

And I KNOW it'll likely be a BAD thing for the AWB and generally firearms rights - but there is NO way I wanna see Bush get a second term. He's WAY too wishy-washy to be trusted on ANY issue, IMO, he's an "opportunist" ... plus all the way right stuff he's pulled. NO THANKS.

My more conservative leaning friends keep trying to nudge me toward it - I didn't vote for him in the general either last time. (I wasn't AS concerned about RKBA in 2000) and I voted for the Green party candidate `cause I couldn't QUITE stomach any of the other options.

[MrSandman]

78. We have talked about this...

What gun control has Bush repealed? He will even sign a repeal of the AWB sunset.

[Lazpash]

80. "We have talked about this..."

Yeah, frankly, I'm not as optimistic as SOME (mostly conservatives) who tout the Bush Banner about the AWB. Hopeful, of course, optimistic (and I;m more a realist than either an optimist or pessimist - but I don't hold much hope the turkey will "come through" like the conservative bunch thinks he will (all evidence to the contrary).

Shoot, out Governor is a Republipuke, and he was blocking CCW ... until it started to "backfire".

[MrSandman]

81. I got a letter from my Rep. Saturday(Rahall-D- WV 3rd)

and I quote:
"Plese know that I continue to work in oppostion to any legislation to extend the ban on semiautomatic assault weapons."

He voted against the 94 ban and for the repeal in 96. One of the good guys.

No "I will consider your views when this comes to debate...blahblahblah" that I so often get.

[alwynsw]

82. Good for him

I got Ron Lewis R-Cecelia (KY) but he is in favor of the sunset as well - or so he says.

[MrSandman]

83. He did vote for repeal in 96.

http://www.awbansunset.com/house_ky.html

[skippythwndrdog]

11. Can anyone blame them?

There have been too many attacks on gays by homophobes. One atta ck is too many.

Forget their sexual orientation, what about peronal protection from ordinary every day thugs?

[beevul]

12. Good points...

and welcome to DU!!

[lcordero]

13. I hate to use a group like this but I think that the GLBT

community, and ONLY the GLBT community can fashion gun rights into a legitimate Progressive cause.

[alwynsw]

15. Are you serious?

I thought progressives embraced all. Now you're telling mr that you think it takes a special kind of progressive to make 2nd Amendment rights palatable to all progressives?

Say it ain't so!

[David__77]

23. What about other oppressed groups?

I think any group targeted by others on the basis of defining characteristics would fall into this category. The Black Panthers got started by stressing self-defense.

I see a change in this country, where progressives are much more friendly to gun ownership.

[Spentastic]

25. What?

I find it difficult to believe that it's progressive to arm gays in order to fend off attacks by bigots. I'm pretty sure a true progressive would be looking to address the causes of such bigotry.

As far as their right to self defence go, Gays are in the same boat as everybody else.

[RoeBear]

26. What does that mean?

"As far as their right to self defence go, Gays are in the same boat as everybody else."

Is the 'boat' sinking or sailing forward?

[alwynsw]

29. What about the interim?

How many have to be beaten, crippled, or killed until the education process takes hold? aside from that, what's the plan for the run-of-the-mill criminal who is an equal opportunity felon?

WWBBD?

[Lazpash]

45. Education vs. Firearms

One of the Pink Pistols "detractors" who push education, not guns, is missing a VERY valid point, which is this.

Can't we do both?

That's what I'm doing, (My name is Kim Rife, BTW - and my ugly mug is in the OUT! article as I am one of the co-founders of the Cleveland chapter, the focus of the article) - and I too had about an hour interview, and another co-founder John (a straight guy) had about an hour interview.

AS I've not yet SEEN the article, I've no idea how long it is. The photographer, Paul who came to a meeting to get photos, said he read the final draft and thought we'd be pleased w/it though.

Anyway, I digress. I have had far more support for being a lesbian in the firearms community than I have in the gay community (from alleged "leadership" anyway) for being pro firearms.

Not that the straight firearms community has been happy at the very beginning ... MANY have - but some were less than thrilled, but as they saw we were just "people" who enjoyed the shooting sports and wanted to be capable of defending ourselves, that reticence quickly dropped away.

Glad to see MOST folks here are a bit more welcoming of us "Pink Pistols" than the gay leadership.

And don't think for a second that some of the people in the firearms community (granted, mostly straight white guys) aren't gonna give a hard time to some "would-be basher" who makes some derogatory comment about "queers" - or an inappropriate joke. It's not gonna be an "overnight" thing, BUT _I_ personally have seen pretty hard line types warm to the idea of "live & let live" after meeting some of our people at the local range.

THIS _IS_ education (too)... it's just not the structured sort the PTB are "used" to is all.

[jhfenton]

47. Hi Kim!

Hi Kim, from another ccw-talk participant! Welcome.

[Lazpash]

54. hey! I know you! ;)

I've seen you around, and yes, on ccw-talk.

Cool.

[alwynsw]

52. Welcome to DU, Kim

Since I'm retired, I'd be happy to help with starting a Louisville Chapter. My wife and I travel a fair amount, so I can't be there all the time, but I'd appreciate any advice on getting started. Been to the website. Looking for nuts and bolts stuff here.

[alwynsw]

59. Straight white guy here

Any questions? The floor is open. Bash my buddy Wally and I'll kick yer ass.

[Lazpash]

64. Which is sorta my point ...

Straight folks and queer folks interacting IN the club and those affiliated with the club, (Other shooters at the range, people at events we attend - like the march on the Guv's "mansion" etc..)

And to know us is to love us ;)

OH, BTW - Cincinnati group is 1/2 "up" at: Yahoo! under CincinnatiPinkPistols.

I'll try posting a link, but I'm thinking that gets deleted.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CincinnatiPinkPistols/

Or maybe not .... <g>

[MrSandman]

76. Welcome aboard...

[Bertha Venation]

27. Offered w/out comment for now: Gwen Patton's reply

to my email. Please give your thoughts.

~~~~~~~~

I did explain it to Mr. Piepenberg in far greater detail, but the article in OUT was not specifically about me, but was focused far more upon the chapters forming in Ohio, so he did not concentrate upon what I was saying, but upon the Ohio activities. He did not go into the details I gave him, but instead only put a small part of what I told him into my article. I had spoken to him for well over an hour, and only a couple minutes' worth of our discussion made it into print.

When an hour's discussion is reduced to the equivalent of a sound bite, yes, it does tend to become generalized, and yes, some of the finer detail was lost. And while we did discuss precisely the point you made, and I did in fact TELL him that statement -- that because most gays tend to be liberal in their politics, they tend to be allied with those who share anti-rights sentiments -- he chose to use another of my statements as a quote instead, perhaps because it sounded "punchier".

And I do feel that gays have been taught that guns are irredeemably evil -- by the media, by doctors pretending they have expertise in household risk management, asking if you have firearms in the home, by movie directors and screenwriters producing movies that perpetuate myths, anti-gun ideas, and outright inaccurate "facts" about firearms, by "news" shows that make no attempt to verify their information, and liberal "docu-dramas" that retell historical events "based upon a true story" -- but slant them so everything relating to firearms is dark, evil, scary. The emphasis is on never relying on yourself for protection or defense, but on calling for someone else to protect you. The subtext is that the police are the ONLY ones who can EVER properly protect you, and that if you try, you are always in the wrong. The use of a firearm is portrayed with an air of "moral equivalence", as though self-defense against an attacker is the moral equivalent of murdering a pregnant woman in an alley, and that anyone who even TOUCHES a gun unless they're a soldier or a cop MUST be a criminal. It wasn't en masse, it was slow, insidious, and perpetual.

So I stand by my statement. I did not perpetuate a stereotype -- I pointed out that it exists, and that we must fight against it. And frankly, too many of our brothers and sisters out there *have* been brainwashed, and we desperately need to rescue them! That's what we're doing!

We have thousands of members out there. Out of those thousands, we have hundreds willing to be seen each month, gathering publicly with their guns, going shooting at ranges nationwide. The number is growing every month. As we gain in notoriety, the number increases, and the *ratio* improves, as the ones willing to be *seen* gets larger. We're came out of the closet, now we're coming out of the gun safe. It's a very different thing, one we've been taught -- largely by being steeped in a society that disapproves of gun use -- that guns are inherently "evil", and "violent".

One of the tasks ahead of me is to show that while all violence is force, not all force is violence. While the dictionary bears me out, not all who hear it can be made to see the distinction.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from, and I hope your frustration with the sound bite did not distract you from other benefits of the article.

Sincerely,
Gwen Patton

[alwynsw]

31. I seems as though Ms Patton went over the top to make a point

and got the usual press treatment - bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate in order to get a soundbite with a hook.

[Wickerman]

85. Locking

I think we done talked about the Pink Pistols enough - This thread is getting large and it must be about the 75th on the topic.

Thanks for playing, don't forget to tip your waitresses! Stop by the counter on your way out and pick up your discount tickets for next week's thread! clank-crash-ba-boom!