GUNS IN THE NEWS--February 12, 2004

[MrBenchley]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er or violations of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

1. Witnesses Testify About Williams Shooting (NJ)

"SOMERVILLE, N.J. - The first paramedic to reach Jayson Williams' estate on the night a limousine driver was shot said the driver's death did not appear to be a suicide.
A shotgun was five to six feet away from the body of Costas "Gus" Christofi and weapons in suicides usually are closer to the body, paramedic Matthew D. Wilson testified on Wednesday.
Wilson also said the former NBA star was wearing a T-shirt and sweat pants, while his guests looked like they were about to go out or had been out. Prosecutors have alleged that after the shooting, Williams removed his clothing, jumped into a pool downstairs and put on new clothes. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040212/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bkn_williams_trial_17

[CO Liberal]

20. Yet Another "Model Citizen" Gun Owner

Has he been appointed to the NRA's Board of Directors yet? Sounds like he'd fit right in......

[pnb]

31. I thought the NRA was nothing but racists?

What would they want with Jayson Williams?

[MrBenchley]

35. No, they have a few tokens too

I'm sure people who want to pretend Trent Lott's not a bigot can pretend to be fooled.....

[pnb]

40. Who said anything about Trent Lott?

I certainly didn't. Why do you need to bring it up?

[MrBenchley]

47. You brought up racism...and Trent's a leading exponent

and pro-gun all the way, too....he even was an NRA keynote speaker.. Think anybody's fooled by the NRA's few tokens...or Trent's sea change last year? I sure don't.

[pnb]

52. You're missing the point

You talked about people pretending Lott isn't racist. I have never claimed that he isn't racist and you imply that I believe that for no reason. That's why I ask why you bring him up?

[MrBenchley]

53. No, I nailed the point....

You wanted to pretend that the presence of a few tokens on the board fools anyone into thinking the NRA isn't a bunch of racist shits....which it doesn't...any more than people believe Trent has been a figure of racial healing.

[MrBenchley]

2. NE Indiana man avoids death penalty

"FORT WAYNE, Ind. -- The triggerman in a teenage girl's abduction and killing avoided a possible death penalty by pleading guilty and agreeing to a life prison sentence without parole.
Ronrico Hatch pleaded guilty to murder and abuse of a corpse after reaching a plea agreement with prosecutors and an attorney for one of his accomplices.
Hatch was to stand trial beginning March 8 for his role in the August 2002 abduction and killing of Cheri Sue Hartman, who was shot through the mouth in a remote Allen County field after being beaten and stripped. The 17-year-old's body was later doused in gasoline and set on fire.
Hatch, 23, was the last of five defendants to stand trial. Hatch's accomplices, who have all been convicted, identified him as the shooter."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/120140-6566-093.html     

[pnb]

32. Interesting

I somehow get the feeling, what with the stripping, beating and fire, that not only was a gun not the problem here, but that this could've/wouldv'e happened even without one.

[MrBenchley]

39. Partners Reportedly Argued Before Fatal Shooting (FL)

"Court documents have revealed new information about the fatal shooting at a Boca Raton delicatessen in October.
Ralph Liotta, 47, told deputies that on the day his business partner, John Gurino, was shot and killed, Gurino had slapped Liotta in the face, threatened to stab him and told him he was not going to open the business. Liotta allegedly shot Gurino four times. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040212/lo_wpbf/2005134

[MrBenchley]

3. Brothers guilty in death of man, 27, in Turners Station (MD)

"Within two days of 27-year-old Tylan Baylor's murder, detectives had tracked their suspects - brothers Tavon and Jerry K. Owens - to a house in North Carolina.
The Dundalk pair quickly surrendered, but what seemed like an open-and-shut case in the Turners Station shooting became more complicated as the brothers changed their stories - each claiming that he pulled the trigger.
Prosecutors had planned to try both brothers this week. But on Tuesday, the day the murder trial was scheduled to begin, Jerry Owens, 25, surprised prosecutors by pleading guilty to first-degree murder.
Yesterday, a Baltimore County jury convicted Tavon Owens, 22, of second-degree murder, as well as handgun charges.
According to court papers and testimony, Tavon Owens believed Baylor owed him $950. So when the Owens brothers ran into Baylor on March 17 of last year, prosecutors said, they shot him."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/yahoo/bal-md.verdict12feb12,0,1641909.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines

[MrBenchley]

4. Order revives murder case (MD)

"Reviving a troubled Annapolis murder case, the state's highest court said yesterday that prosecutors could use the confession of a man accused in a chilling carjacking-killing in the heart of the city's Historic District.
An Anne Arundel County judge had thrown out prosecutors' crucial evidence, a confession by defendant Terrence Tolbert, 21, in the September 2002 killing of Straughan Lee Griffin. The judge ruled that Tolbert had not been given the proper Miranda warnings.
Griffin, 51, a businessman, was unloading groceries just before dusk on Sept, 19, 2002, in front of his home in Annapolis when he was shot in the head and robbed of the keys to his Jeep. As he lay bleeding in the street, his fleeing attackers ran him over with the vehicle. "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.tolbert12feb12,0,2502152.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

[MrBenchley]

5. Survivor tells jury of attack that left two friends dead (MD)

"When his attackers arrived, letting themselves in the front door of his grandmother's West Baltimore rowhouse, Charles Brockington was dozing in a basement bedroom. The footsteps pounding on the stairs, he assumed, meant his buddies had arrived to play video games, smoke marijuana and sell drugs, just as they did most days.
Instead, Brockington told a federal jury yesterday, he rolled over to discover three armed, masked men standing by his bed, ordering him to turn over any cash and drugs he had stashed in the house.
What followed at 303 N. Calhoun St. on Sept. 23, 2001, has become the grim centerpiece of a rare federal death penalty trial in U.S. District Court in Baltimore. By the end of the day, two of Brockington friends -- who arrived at the rowhouse shortly after the masked men -- had been executed. Brockington was shot eight times and left for dead. "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-md.gang12feb12,0,1354504.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

[pnb]

33. Wow...

...a bunch of drug dealers shooting each other up!!!

Seems if Brockington had had a gun handy he might well still be alive...or if he had not engaged in a dangerous lifestyle...

[MrBenchley]

6. Teen to be tried as adult in crime spree (MO)

"A 16-year-old was charged with 12 felonies Wednesday in connection with a shooting rampage at Blue Ridge Mall last year.
Ronald Morris of Raytown was certified to stand trial as an adult earlier this week. He faces charges of assault, armed criminal action, robbery and attempted robbery. He was 15 years old when the incident occurred.
Morris' co-defendant is Adrian Peugh of Independence, who was charged last year with assault, robbery and armed criminal action. He was 19 at the time of the incident."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/7932894.htm

[MrBenchley]

7. Armed Men Wearing Ski Masks Rob N.W. Side Restaurant (TX)

"SAN ANTONIO -- Three armed men wearing ski masks burst into a Northwest Side restaurant Wednesday night and robbed customers at gunpoint before getting away.
No one was injured following the commando-style robbery at the Buffet Palace on Culebra and Pipers Creek, but the incident left about 30 customers and restaurant workers terrified.
Police said the gunmen were very well organized and had a getaway car with a driver waiting for them outside."

http://www.ksat.com/news/2842396/detail.html

[slackmaster]

8. L.A. Riots Beating Defendant Shot, Killed (CA)

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES (AP) - One of four men prosecuted in the beating of truck driver Reginald Denny during the 1992 Los Angeles riots was killed in a nightclub shooting, police said Wednesday.

Antoine Miller died Sunday after being shot Feb. 1 in Hollywood, said Officer Lucy Diaz. He was 31.

One other man was wounded. The shooting remained under investigation.

Denny's beating came at the start of the riots sparked by the acquittal of white police officers in the beating of black motorist Rodney King....

slackmaster comments:

If Antoine Miller had gotten a proper prison sentence instead of probation for his role in the beating of Reginald Denney he might be alive today.

[pnb]

34. Did the story say if he was trying to beat someone else up...

...when he was shot?

[slackmaster]

58. Oh crap, I forgot the link

I read it in the fishwrap this morning.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/thu/news/news_1n12region.html

Please scroll down to find the article.

[MrBenchley]

9. Psychiatrist says Prozac shooter was not insane (MI)

"A University of Michigan psychiatrist testified Wednesday that the man accused of fatally shooting two men after a bar brawl over a pool game was sane at the time of the incident.
Dr. Phillip Margolis, professor emeritus for U-M's Psychiatry Department, said Christopher Bernaiche was in mental control when he shot up Drinks Saloon in Gibraltar in December 2002. Two men died in the shooting, and three others were wounded.
Bernaiche is on trial in Wayne County Circuit Court, charged with two counts of first-degree murder and three counts of assault with intent to murder.
Police and prosecutors said Bernaiche, 27, was wagering $20 a game in billiards and lost. He began to argue with bar patrons and employees and was tossed out. Bernaiche told police and numerous psychiatrists that he returned to the bar with a gun and began shooting. "

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/prozac12_20040212.htm

[slackmaster]

10. Prozac and alcohol DO NOT MIX!

...Police say Bernaiche did not appear intoxicated when he was arrested after the shooting. His blood alcohol level was not tested.

They damn well SHOULD have tested him! Drinking any alcohol at all while taking Prozac is contraindicated by the warning labels on the bottle and therefore a violation of federal law (i.e. using the drug in a manner inconsistent with its labelling.)

My ex-wife became violent when she was taking Prozac and drank alcohol. Two beers was enough to make her go from even-tempered to volatile.

A pool game that happened at Drinks Saloon, eh?

:eyes:

[alwynsw]

11. Agreed!

For that matter firearms and alcohol NEVER mix either.

[MrBenchley]

12. Tell that to the idiots in the gun lobby....

"Fairfax, VA - Fairfax County residents and community leaders met outside a local bar today (Tuesday) to oppose concealed handguns in businesses which serve alcohol. The top legislative goal of Virginia's gun lobby last year, H.R. 1997, the "guns in bars" bill, could become law in the next legislative session.
Speakers at the news conference chastised Fairfax elected officials for aiding the measure. H.R. 1997 passed the House of Delegates last year, but was narrowly blocked by a divided committee in the State Senate.
"Enough is enough!," said Jim Atwood, a Springfield gun owner and board member of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "I'm tired of so-called Fairfax moderates standing with right wing extremists."
Members of the Fairfax delegation, including Senators Ken Cuccinelli (R-Centreville) and Jay O'Brien (R- Springfield) have expressed support for allowing concealed handguns in bars. Moreover, House candidate Rob McDowell (R-35) is employing gun lobby rhetoric on the campaign trail, and has in the past received an NRA endorsement. "

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,567304,00.html

"For the past several years the gun-rights advocates have tried — so far in vain — to expand the law to permit 100,000 Virginians with concealed weapons permits to take their guns with them into any establishment that serves alcohol.
But the guns-in-bars advocates are back this year with a new, far-fetched twist.
Their bill (SB579) would allow sober Virginians with a concealed weapon permit to carry their guns into a bar. Its flaw is that it ignores what happens when one of them gets sloshed and refuses to leave. "

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=65635&ran=72882

[alwynsw]

23. Many go into bars, yet do not consume alcohol

I am not in favor of weapons in bars, but it appears that you're being omniscient again. Nowhere in the article does it state that anyone was mixing drinks and firearms as you imply.

[MrBenchley]

36. Yeah, some go for the beer nuts and the second-hand smoke

How desperately CAN the RKBA crowd spin?

[alwynsw]

46. What spin?

I like beer nuts, but the bars around here don't serve them.

[Columbia]

27. More distortion

These bills are so people can patronize restaurants that serve alcohol while carrying concealed (and in Virginia, this is pretty much every restaurant). Currently, you must carry openly if you want to eat at such a place. Regardless of the restaurant or method of carry, one cannot drink alcohol while carrying and these bills will not change that so your assertion is null and void.

[MrBenchley]

38. Drunks with guns

That's what this law is meant for...

[Columbia]

41. No

It's meant for law-abiding folks who carry to be able to go to restaurants to have an option to carry concealed rather than openly.

More denial, distortion, and outright deception from the anti-crowd...

[MrBenchley]

43. Drunks with guns

[Columbia]

50. LOL. You are quite funny.

You ever think of doing standup?

[MrSandman]

63. You can now legally carry in these establishments

if you do so openly.

[MrBenchley]

74. Drunks with guns

[MrBenchley]

13. Smith & Wesson chief did time for '50s armed heists

The corrupt gun industry in person....

"He is board chairman of Smith & Wesson Holding Corp., parent company of the famous gunmaker. He also ran a successful non-profit agency serving delinquent and disabled Michigan youths for 20 years before retiring to Scottsdale in 1997.
But he also is a former convict who spent 15 years in prison in the 1950s and 1960s for a string of armed robberies and an attempted prison escape. News articles in the Detroit News said he was known for carrying a 16-gauge, sawed-off shotgun.
Other Smith & Wesson board members did not know about Minder's criminal record until he called and told most of them Wednesday, offering to resign.
"I offered my resignation . . . and to a man they refused it," Minder said. "As long as it's at their pleasure, I'll stay. Quite frankly, I've done nothing wrong." "

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0212minder12.html


Other gun manufacturing scumbags include nutcase cult leader Sun Myung Moon and Robert Hodgdon and John Olin (price fixing). And the NRA board has a number more.

[alwynsw]

25. Rule #6

You posted 'em. You oughta follow 'em.

[CO Liberal]

28. Will You PLEASE Explain...

...what the hell you're talking about with these references to "Rule #6"?

[MrBenchley]

42. Simple

He can't pretend this bozo from S&W isn't a former armed robber....

He can't pretend the other scumbags mentioned in the post aren't crooks....

[alwynsw]

45. Nothing could be farther from the truth

Guideline #6 clearly states that those wishing to comment on the story should do so in a reply, not in the body of the post.

Insofar as the rest of the story goes; I have no issues with Mr. Minder holding any position he's big enough to hold unless he is barred by law. The article clearly states that he owns no firearms. As a Director of the holding company, he is in no way associated with the daily operations of Smith and Wesson. Directors guide the strategic positions of companies. Where's the problem? Are we going to start picking and choosing career choices for others.

[alwynsw]

49. So now we're picking on religious leaders?

How liberal is that, what with the freedom of religion (however silly we might personally believe it to be) and all?

nutcase cult leader Sun Myung Moon

[MrBenchley]

55. You stand over there with nutsy Reverend Moon then

and you're welcome to him.

[alwynsw]

56. Whether I agree with his teachings or not is of no consequence

I do have a problem with those who attack any religious leader. Last time I checked, we do have religious freedom in this country. Tolerance goes with that freedom.

[MrBenchley]

59. Then you stand over there with Nutsy Reverend Moon

and you're weclome to him.

"Tolerance goes with that freedom"
And right wing turds bob in the same cesspool...

[CO Liberal]

60. So When Jim Bakker Went To Prison...

...do you think he went there for religious persecution? Or for committing a crime???

[MrBenchley]

61. When nutsy Moon went to prison

it was for tax fraud...

[CO Liberal]

62. He's Such a Model Citizen.....

NOT!!!!!

[alwynsw]

65. I'm not holding the guy up as an example of anything

except to say that he is the leader of a religious group. Except for its size, his position roughly matches the position of the Pope in Roman Catholocism. THerefore, bashing Rev. Moon is the moral equivalent of bashing the Pope.

[CO Liberal]

66. As an Ex-Catholic...

...I consider your comparison between the Pope and a swindler like Moon to be highly insulting.

[alwynsw]

67. Sorry that you feel that way

but the comparison within the organization is accurate. Both are essentially chairmen of bureacuracies. In this case, one is a long-established religion while the other is a relative newcomer.

on edit: It's not a religious comparison, simply a hierarchial comparison.

[CO Liberal]

68. There Is No Comparison

The Pope is The Pope. Sun Yung Moon is a right-wing scumbag tax evader.

And your spirited defense of such an asshole seems quite out of place on a progressive Democratic site such as DU.

[alwynsw]

69. Show me a defense, spirited or otherwise

I simply pointed out his position within his church.

edited to add: The deliberate bashing of any religious leader should go deeply against the grain of any liberal. Whether we agree with their politics or religious beliefs is immaterial if we indeed believe in the First Amendment. We are duty bound first as Americans and second as liberals to support anyone's choice of religion and to support their practice of that religion. Bashing of their beliefs or their religious leaders, who often mold their beliefs, is anathema to me, as it should be to all Americans, regardless of their political preferences.

If one wishes to bash the politics of a church leader, go right ahead; but state that specifically. By simply referring to any religious leader as a nut case, without qualification, is to imply that the entirety of his or her positions - both secular and religious - are suspect; the logical end of which is that the religious beliefs of his or her followers are suspect.

There's where my problem with the statement lies. I personally have no liking for Rev. Moon, his politics, or his particular brand of religion, but I am not so presumptuous as to broadly label him a nut case.

My comparison stands.

[CO Liberal]

70. Oh - You Won't Label Moon a Nut Case....

...but you dont' seem to have any problem attaching derrogatory labels to the likes of Diane Feinstein, Sarah Brady, or Rosie O'Donnell.

I just don't understand why you're standing up for that right-wing asshole tax evader Moon......

[alwynsw]

72. Read a little more carefully

I am most certainly not standing up for Rev. Moon. I am most certainly defending our freedom of religion and the rights of others to practice as they will without fear of recrimination.

I maintain that it's notvery liberal for anyone to broadly bash the leader of any religious group in such a way that would call their religious beliefs into question.

As I stated earllier, feel free to bash Rev. Moon or any other religious leader for their political position. Just be certain that it is clear that their religion doesn't get caught up in the blast. It's a fine line, but I believe that we're all intelligent enough to see the difference.

If I didn't know you better, I'd swear that you were baiting me. It's not your style. On the other hand, I freely admit to baiting to drive home a point.

I'm going to bed now. Post your reply and I'll pick it up in the morning.

[CO Liberal]

73. I Never Dsiputed Moon's Religious Beliefs

I said he was a right-wing asshole. No better than Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, D. James Kennedy, or any of the other right-wing assholes who are out to use religion to divide us.

I'm just very suspicious of anyone who wants to stand up for an asshole like that - that's all......

[alwynsw]

76. I agree that he is a right wing asshole

The huge difference between him and the others you mentioned is the fact that, even though it is a small sect, he is the leader of the Unification Church. Regardless of his political beliefs, his religious beliefs should be off limits to scorn. An undefined swipe at him necessarily attacks those beliefs.

Pound his political beliefs all you want. I'll help. I am repeating the thought: specify why you're bashing him (or in this case, not you but another poster) or his religion gets bashed as well. This is particularly so in the case of anyone who is the leader of a unique religion, regardless of what deity(ies) they worship.

[CO Liberal]

77. So If Someone Doesn't Specify the Problem They Have With Moon...

...you just automatically assume they're attacking his religious beliefs??

Do me a favor - have your wife and her Master's degree read my posts on this thread and tell you if I've attacked his religion.

[alwynsw]

78. If you read up, you'll find that you've jumped into the middle of an issue

My original comments were pointed at another poster's comments; not yours. You've taken up the torch. I have no problem with that. I'll not rehash the blanket nutcase statement.

We continue to lead the fight to end discrimination on the basis of race, gender, religion, age, ethnicity, disability, and sexual orientation.

http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html

Since the 2000 Platform is the most recent, it's what I'm referencing. I doubt that the 2004 Platform will vary greatly on this issue.

I maintain that referring to any religious leader as a nutcase, without qualification, is both prejudicial and demeaning to the followers of that religiion, which is in direct conflict with the current Party platform. It is also questionable conduct to make such postings on this board according to DU rules concerning bigotry.

BTW, my wife agrees.

[CO Liberal]

79. So...

I maintain that referring to any religious leader as a nutcase, without qualification, is both prejudicial and demeaning to the followers of that religiion, which is in direct conflict with the current Party platform. It is also questionable conduct to make such postings on this board according to DU rules concerning bigotry.

So following your "logic", anyone who speaks out against the actions of a pedophile priest is attacking the entire Catholic Church???? You're wife may buy that, but I don't.

And IMHO, no one get a free ride because they claim to be a religious leader. An asshole is an asshole.

[MrBenchley]

81. You might recall

that this "religious" leader recently called for a "purge" of gay people in America.

[MrBenchley]

80. Pretending a scummy gun manufacturer ISN'T scum

because he's got a nutcase cult he can hide behind.

[alwynsw]

64. Apples and oranges

Baker was a popular pentecostal preacher/TV personality. Rev. Moon is the leader of the Unification Church.

[MrBenchley]

14. Guns don't kill; records do? (FL)

More idiocy from the "gun rights" crowd....

"Florida lawmakers, prominent among them Rep. Carl Domino, R-Jupiter, are promoting legislation that would make it harder for police to solve violent gun crimes. Perhaps Rep. Domino and the others are operating from benign ignorance.
Basically, Florida Senate Bill 1152 and House Bill 0155 would keep police from compiling records of pawned guns. The bills taking away that useful law-enforcement tool are framed in the paranoid prose often employed by National Rifle Association lobbyists: "The Legislature finds and declares that... a list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law-enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."
Who knew that keeping track of pawned guns was such a threat to hard-won liberty? Most people understand that pawnshop records help police to track down stolen guns and guns used in crimes. Cops use pawn records to find stolen cameras, watches and necklaces. Guns are no different, and law-abiding gun owners have every reason to hope that police in Florida can continue to use pawn records to solve gun crimes.
Rep. Domino's concerns about constitutionality appear to be unfounded. The Palm Beach County Criminal Justice Commission asked the Firearms Law Center about the proposed Florida laws (for information about the center, see www.firearmslawcenter.org). Laura Cutilletta, senior staff attorney for the center, sent a lengthy response that included this plain conclusion: Federal courts uphold all kinds of firearms restrictions "and the Second Amendment is completely irrelevant to laws requiring firearm record-keeping."
The same memo addressed concerns that keeping records of pawned guns might violate Florida's constitution. The Florida Supreme Court "established that 'the right to keep and bear arms is not an absolute right, but is one which is subject to the right of the people through their legislature to enact valid police regulations to promote the health, morals, safety and general welfare of the people.' " "

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/opinion_04a2db6a763250b20094.html

[CO Liberal]

15. Slim Whitman Records Kill...

...remember what happened to the Martians in "Mars Attacks"?? The sound of Slim Whitman's voice made their heads explode.

[alwynsw]

22. No No No

Rule number 6

[CO Liberal]

24. What the HELL Are You Talking About, Alwynsw????

[alwynsw]

26. Just this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=39223#39600

In case you're on dial-up and don't want to wait for the whole thing to load, it's post #56.

on edit: It's the answer to the same question that you also posed in that thread. If we're all going to play nice, we all need to use the same rules - and they are your rules.

[CO Liberal]

29. About Rule #6

What that means that if Person A posts a story, Person B would add his comment by replaying to that story. But Person A is free to add his comments within his original post. In fact, I usually do that by puttin my comments in italics atht eh top of my posts.

There is no rule violation here - just unnecessary nit-picking by a pro-gunner who's pissed off at these stories. I've seen it before - we'll see it again. If these "Guns in the News" threads bother you that much, don't open them.

Remember, we started doing "GITN" threads because some pro-gunners were bitching and moaning about the board being flooded with gun-related stories. So we moved them to daily threads. And some people are still bitching and moaning.

Guess the truth hurts......

[CO Liberal]

One Other Thing....

Those are not "rules" - they're voluntary guidelines. And the last one says that "if you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread."

[alwynsw]

44. I have no objection whatsoever

I do however, read and comprehend the language. My comments on the interpretation of Guideline #6 stand.

I also got my retired teacher wife with the masters in English to read the guidelines. She agrees.

What's good for the goose...

on edit: Your comment in post #21 does not to appear to violate that guideline. You made no pro or con comments, nor did you editorialize. You merely mentioned your personal connection to the location of the incident.

[CO Liberal]

57. I Have Revised Guideline #6 To Eliminate Any Confusion

It's in the thread I've already started for tomorrow's stories. I hope this clarifies the issue.

(BTW, this is consistent with DU's requirements for postings on other boards, such as General Discussion, where the poster is REQUIRED to state their opinion.)

[MrBenchley]

16. Police probe double shooting on Honeysuckle Drive (KY)

"HOPKINSVILLE -- Two men remained hospitalized today after being shot late Tuesday night in the 1300 block of Honeysuckle Drive.
Hopkinsville police were continuing to investigate the incident; however, no suspects were listed on reports and no arrests had been made this morning. Police were planning to interview one of the victims at a Nashville hospital.
Details about the shootings, which were reported at 10:10 p.m., remained sketchy. "

http://www.kentuckynewera.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200402/11+Crime-02-11-04_news.html+20040211+news

[MrBenchley]

17. Boy clings to life after being caught in shooting crossfire (PA)

"PHILADELPHIA - A 9-year-old boy caught in the crossfire of a shooting near his elementary school was clinging to life Wednesday after a bullet struck him in the head during a dispute between two "warring factions," police said.
Faheem Thomas-Childs, a third grader, was shot in the face and a school crossing guard was struck in the foot outside the Thomas M. Peirce Elementary School in North Philadelphia. Police knew they had no time to wait for an ambulance and rushed the boy to Temple University Hospital, where he underwent four hours of surgery and remained in "extremely critical condition" Wednesday night, Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson said.
Children were arriving for class and some were playing in the schoolyard when dozens of shots rang out shortly after 8:30 a.m., police said. Youngsters ran screaming toward the building as teachers and parents frantically tried to pull them inside to safety, witnesses told police.
At least three guns were fired between the two groups, police said."

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/103-02112004-244919.html

[MrBenchley]

18. College Pt. engineer guilty of shooting homeless man (NY)

"A College Point man was convicted last week of murder charges stemming from a September 2002 shooting in which a homeless man was killed in Powell’s Cove, the Queens district attorney said.
Vadim Traut, 54, was found guilty of murder and criminal possession of a weapon Feb. 4 in State Supreme Court in Kew Gardens.
He now faces a prison term of 25 years to life. He will be sentenced March 4.
Traut shot the victim, a 46-year-old man known in the neighborhood as “Mouse,” once in the back on Sept. 19, 2002, according to the DA’s office.
Three other homeless people emerged from their shanty when they heard the gunshot and saw Traut standing over Kevin Monroe, the DA said. Traut then ordered one of the witnesses to help dispose of the body and when the onlooker did not agree, Traut hit him in the head with his 12-gauge shotgun, according to the DA"

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10957843&BRD=1079&PAG=461&dept_id=506458&rfi=6

[MrBenchley]

19. Friends Mourn Boy Killed In Shooting (FL)

"As of Thursday, no charges had been filed against the boy, 13, who reportedly pulled the trigger, and he was released from custody. Investigators haven't said why the shooting happened, but they are calling it a homicide and said charges will likely be brought against the shooter.
Investigators talked to her son and believe the two teenagers were playing a game with the gun when the shooting occurred Tuesday. They haven't said why the younger boy had a gun with him or who owns the weapon. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040212/lo_wpbf/2005265

[CO Liberal]

21. Student arrested for threatening to kill teacher (NJ)

A gun incident at my late father's alma mater - Wayne

* * * * *

Student arrested for threatening to kill teacher

By JAMES P. QUARANTA
Staff Writer; [e-mail]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VINELAND -- Police arrested a 16-year-old Vineland High School student for threatening to kill a teacher and making remarks about bringing a gun to school.

Police gave this account: The incident began at 11 a.m. Tuesday in a classroom at the 9-10 building when the boy was gathering his books and apparently arguing with other students. A teacher overheard him say, "You wonder why people bring guns to school and shoot people."

Then, while in a hallway being escorted to the principal's office by a substance-abuse counselor, the teen said, "I'll kill that teacher -- what are they going to do, arrest me?"

The reason for the initial classroom disturbance was unclear.

<more>

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/news/stories/20040212/localnews/396918.html

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[MrBenchley]

37. Amazing that so many of those posting gun porn

and whacking their monkey in public over how much monery they've wasted on their toys don't have a dime to give to the board....

[demsrule4life]

71. I have an idea

and I have seen it mentioned on the ask the admin board, why don't you pay for everyone if it is such a concern to you?

[MrBenchley]

75. Why don't YOU, dems...

You're the one always boasting about how much money you've pissed away on your gun fetish.

[MrBenchley]

48. Driver Reportedly Fires Shots At Hummer (TX)

"Several tow truck drivers helped police stop a shooting suspect accused of shooting at another driver on the Southwest Freeway Wednesday night.
The shooting happened around 8:40 p.m. just past Gessner.
Police responded to the scene after a driver of a red truck allegedly fired shots at the driver of a Hummer. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040212/lo_kprc/2004880

[MrBenchley]

51. Ohio Highway Shooter May Have Been Caught On Tape

"OLUMBUS, Ohio -- A Fayette County resident may have captured images of the serial shooter on tape, WCMH reported.
Lester Beers said a surveillance camera mounted on his Brock Road home takes pictures of his driveway. The camera also might have been in the line of sight of the Brock Road overpass, where serial shooting investigators believe on Sunday a man shot a car traveling on Interstate 71, Laven reported.
Beers said he expected law enforcement officers to go to his home Wednesday night to pick up the surveillance equipment.
Beers would not say if he saw anyone on the surveillance tape. He said the equipment is old, and that the video is recorded on a VHS tape. He said the tape can be a little bit snowy. "

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2842519/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

54. Shootout hitchhiker mistaken for hunter (AZ)

"Arivaca - Robin Critchlow thought nothing of picking up the man she mistook for a hunter in need of a lift Tuesday along Arivaca Road.
Critchlow, 40, and her niece were driving toward Interstate 19 about 3:15 p.m. when she spotted 67-year-old Lawrence Emery standing in front of a ranch she grew up on, flagging her down. Minutes later, Emery was firing at a Border Patrol agent’s vehicle from the back of her pickup truck, then died when the woman crashed.
Minutes later, Don Critchlow said Emery, “shot through the window and told her, ‘Don’t stop. If you stop, I’m going to kill you.’” "

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/metro/9542.php

[Wickerman]

82. Locking

Gang, lets try to bring the level of discourse back in line. Its Friday, start practicing being sweet for Valentine's Day. O8)

:pals: