Smart news for a change

[MyrnaLoy]

Carrying a concealed weapon on campus in Idaho failed in the senate today.
http://www.dnews.com/breaking-news/1630/

Idaho’s guns-on-campus bill fails to advance

March 25, 2011, 10:26 am

A bill to allow firearms on Idaho’s public university and college campuses has failed to advance in the Senate.

Lawmakers on the Senate State Affairs Committee decided against moving the legislation forward today after two hours of public testimony.

The issue hit home for Senate Majority Leader Bart Davis, whose 23-year-old son died from a gunshot wound to the chest at a Boise party eight years ago. Cameron Wade Davis, a Boise State University student, was shot by another student carrying a concealed weapon.


Eight years ago next Tuesday, the 23-year-old son of a state senator was shot to death at a keg party at Boise State University, after he reportedly tossed beer on another partygoer, a 21-year-old fellow student. That student responded by pulling a handgun and shooting Cameron Wade Davis, son of Senate Majority Leader Bart Davis, R-Idaho Falls.

[midnight]

1. Great news... Hopefully we can help these students afford to carry books instead...

[PavePusher]

2. And I'm sure you're volunteering to help provide security on a campus near you...

amIright?

:shrug:

[MyrnaLoy]

3. Don't need it

The only killing done on an Idaho campus was done by a person with a concealed weapon. I think the shooter had cwp. did that sting?

[gejohnston]

4. prove it

and what was the context?*

[MyrnaLoy]

8. Ok you asked

Eight years ago next Tuesday, the 23-year-old son of a state senator was shot to death at a keg party at Boise State University, after he reportedly tossed beer on another partygoer, a 21-year-old fellow student. That student responded by pulling a handgun and shooting Cameron Wade Davis, son of Senate Majority Leader Bart Davis, R-Idaho Falls.

College, beer, frat party, and a gun. That may leave a mark.


"To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment," Davis told Jonathan Sawmiller, a student at the University of Idaho, a graduate of Boise State and an Iraq War veteran.

[Factoid]

10. And this student, of course,

had a concealed weapons permit?

[MyrnaLoy]

14. Looks like it

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f

[Factoid]

17. hmm. Carrying while intoxicated,

Big no-no, and this is why.

[MyrnaLoy]

25. Yes

"To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment," Davis told Jonathan Sawmiller, a student at the University of Idaho, a graduate of Boise State and an Iraq War veteran.

[rrneck]

13. Link?

[MyrnaLoy]

16. Read the article and comments

He may have been a permit holder. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f

[MyrnaLoy]

30. Just in case you missed it

"To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment," Davis told Jonathan Sawmiller, a student at the University of Idaho, a graduate of Boise State and an Iraq War veteran.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[right2bfree]

83. What a tradgedy! nt

[petronius]

15. The bill in question has nothing to do with off-campus behavior - as sad as Davis' murder is,

it's irrelevant to the question of the (il)legality of carrying firearms on campus...

[GreenStormCloud]

44. OFF-CAMPUS!!! Not effected by the proposed law. N/T

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taitertots]

91. That would have remained totally illegal if this law had passed

How is it anything but intellectually dishonest to cite this when you know/should know that it has nothing to do with the proposed law?

[aikoaiko]

108. Do you know the diffrence between off-campus and on-campus?

:shrug:

[cleanhippie]

116. Oh, it knows the difference, it just doesn't care, as long as it thinks it is making a point.

[PavePusher]

5. Not until you can cite to evidence.

Sorry, "concealed weapon" does not equal CWP.

[MyrnaLoy]

7. Open carry state

So does it really matter? College, frat party, beer, gun on campus bad.

[gejohnston]

11. think before talking points

Every college I have ever been even in Wyoming, guns were prohibited in dorms
The age group you are talking about are not qualified for ccw licenses unless you are talking about places like Vermont or Arizona, in which case see above.
Also, life long learners and what was once called nontraditional students are very well represented.
I don't know where you went to college, where I went those folks are a small minority, but it does add humor to B rated coming of age/slasher movies

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. The gun in Davis' case wasn't *on* campus. Were we not supposed to notice this?

-1 for your prevarication on this matter.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. The gun was off-campus. Do you have a problem with the truth? N/B

[cleanhippie]

54. IT WAS NOT ON CAMPUS!!! You left that part out

Eight years ago this month, Davis' 23-year-old son Cameron Wade Davis was shot and killed at an off-campusBoise State party by a fellow Boise State student.

Read more: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f#ixzz1HiQIg427

[MyrnaLoy]

68. I didn't

Write the article and point of fact, I added the off campus part in a later post. If you want to continue wi the false accusations I suggest contacting the newspaper.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[right2bfree]

84. They dont want to hear the truth about guns. Thats all they have left to hold, IMO. How sad. nt

[cleanhippie]

117. No, the OFF CAMPUS part is in YOUR OP. You FABRICATED it. You are being untruthful.

Why?

[GreenStormCloud]

55. Yes, it matters. Because we are talking about an ON-CAMPUS law,

not an off-campus one.

[catenary]

66. It seems you have no idea what "campus" means.

Have you ever even seen one?

[rl6214]

72. Frat party beer on campus not allowed

Try again?

[MyrnaLoy]

12. He may have been a cwp permit holder

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f

Sounds like he may have had a permit. If so then the only thing to fear on Idaho campuses is cap holders.

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Still falsely claiming this happened on campus, eh?

[MyrnaLoy]

22. You hate this

Don't you? That student only needed protection from someone who quite possibly held a cwp. Two issues here, guns in and around universities and cwp holders and drinking. Neither helps your side of the debate. I actually think the exact location is irrelevant, it was a college frat party in or around a university.

[Factoid]

28. Why not ban carrying with alcohol use then?

It does seem this has nothing to do with campus carry, reading the full text.

[MyrnaLoy]

32. Wait

Are you suggest he was shot with a six pack?

[Factoid]

33. I'm suggesting,

That Idaho make it illegal to carry a firearm when under the influence of Alcohol, like Colorado does.

It seems strange that that would be allowable up there.

[MyrnaLoy]

34. It is illegal

The college student still did it. So ban what, the less dangerous can of beer? No need to do the whole drinking and driving stat thing, doesn't pertain to this. No one was driving all he was doing was DWCAG. Drinking while carrying a gun. Without the gun, no one would have been shot. With just the beer, they would have been dunk, hungover, and probably alive.

[Factoid]

36. So... what he did was ALREADY ILLEGAL?!?!

... Then what does this have to do with law abiding citizens? I'm very confused now!

Also, far far FAR more people die to drunk driving than any other cause I can think of, short of maybe cigarette smoking. (How can you say it is LESS dangerous?)

So yes. Ban the Beer. (I don't drink anyways).

[MyrnaLoy]

39. Lol

Nice try. Hey guess what? A cwp holder killed a kid in or around a major university in Idaho and based on that the senate decided it was bad to allow cwp on campuses, yea aren't you happy?

[Factoid]

42. About as happy

as I was when a drunk killed my uncle.

a DRUNK cwp holder killed a kid, OUTSIDE OF a major college.

Don't let pesky facts get in the way of your hyperbole, now!

Facts like, on average someone is killed in an alcohol-impaired driving crash about every 50 minutes in the U.S. (Source: NHTSA/FARS, 2010)

I'm glad you can laugh about other people dying, though.





Ban Alcohol.

Save Lives.

Don't you agree?

[rl6214]

73. which was it "in or around"

If you are talking about not allowing guns on college campuses around a university dosen't count.

Also the senate did not decide not to allow it. It cannot be brought up for descussion again this session but will probably be brought up again next session with amendments. See your own link here:
http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f

[Starboard Tack]

75. Why not ban them anywhere people congregate except where they

congregate to show and shoot their guns to and at each other.

[rl6214]

77. "congregate to show and shoot their guns to and at each other. "

The #1 most stupid post ever on DU?

[Starboard Tack]

78. Thank you. Stupid is as stupid does

Did you know that there are shows where they show them to each other? I remember when we used to do that as kids, before we discovered girls. I think I might prefer concealed nowadays.
And then they gather in Mississippi to shoot at each other over dog poop.

[PavePusher]

149. Gun shows?

Sort of like car shows, gem shows, fashion shows....?

Oh well, at least your bigotry is carried openly. One might even say on your sleeve...

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. The location is extremely relevant because the law would have had no effect off-campus.

The law concerned on campus only. Concealed carry by licensed people is ALREADY legal off campus, even at frat parties, although the carrier can't drink.

[Straw Man]

67. Irrelevant?

I actually think the exact location is irrelevant, it was a college frat party in or around a university.

The bill is about carrying ON CAMPUS. It would have done nothing to prevent the incident in question, which happened OFF CAMPUS. This is only relevant if your real agenda is an outright ban on CCW. If it is, just say so and stop all the posturing about campuses not being an appropriate place for firearms.

[MyrnaLoy]

24. Here ya go

"To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment," Davis told Jonathan Sawmiller, a student at the University of Idaho, a graduate of Boise State and an Iraq War veteran.

[PavePusher]

64. Would have more weight coming from an unbiased, checkable source...

such as the police or State permit department.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[right2bfree]

82. True enough. Last thing we need is more guns flooding schools and colleges.,, and the people who

pack them onto campus grounds.

[krispos42]

89. Not on campus.

So the "guns on campus" law would have had no effect on the off-campus murder during a purely private party.

And if the shooter was carrying while drinking heavily, he should have been in jail whether or not the gun ever left his holster. Intoxication and firearms do NOT mix!!!

[VoteProgressive]

58. What in the world does this post mean? nt

[PavePusher]

63. It means, since the O.P. wants to restrict a lawful Citizens' Civil Right to self-defense...

they should be making an effort to compensate for that restriction.

Since they refuse to do so, this proves that their efforts have nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with being an authoritarian with control issues.

[brewens]

6. Well f#*k me runnin'! I would have thought that would sail through.

I live in Idaho and am glad that didn't pass. I register donors at blood drives, and I'm always amused by the people that show their concealed weapons permit for ID. They are just so proud of those. I really wish the FDA would tell us those aren't accepted. It's usually the biggest freakin' tools you can imagine that do it. I'd love to be able to say, "nope! gotta see a real ID." Make them get the drivers license out.
If I get one, I'll never show it to anyone, or let anyone know I'm carrying. If someone was going to jump me, I'd rather the gun was a surprise. If it was known that I was armed and carrying a bunch of cash, someone might just try a more vicious ambush.

[MyrnaLoy]

9. It shouldn't be accepted

It's not an ID, it's a permit.

[Factoid]

20. It's a government issued photo ID,

the same as a drivers license.

That being said, yes, using it as a primary ID just to thump your chest is pretty foolish.

It can be handy if someplace requires two forms of government issued photo ID and you don't have your passport handy, however.

[MyrnaLoy]

23. Mines not

No photo on it at all.

[gejohnston]

26. Idaho?

Wyoming's does

[Factoid]

27. Colorado's, too.

I didn't know any state handed out permits without a photo ID attached to it.

[RSillsbee]

56. Colorado's permit has a photo on it

but it is not considered valid ID

[PavePusher]

60. New Hampshire and Arizona, for starters. n/t

[Euromutt]

96. The Washington state Concealed Pistol License doesn't have a photo

It does state the number of your driver's license so that it can be verified that the CPL is actually yours, but it doesn't serve as a valid photo ID in this state.

[AtheistCrusader]

106. I've used mine as a secondary form of Government Issued ID many timws.

But correct, it only contains my Drivers License number and my signature. No photo.

[MyrnaLoy]

Cute

Slip in the word secondary. Takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it?

[AtheistCrusader]

125. I've used it as primary ID in other situations.

But I guess I am pretty cute.

[MyrnaLoy]

126. buy

beer with it, cross the border with it, rent a car with it, tell us, did they know you were you used it as a primary ID? Where was this? With no photo how can it possibly be a primary ID? Think about that just for a second, a primary ID without a photo. I'll be in the corner laughing my ass off. What are they IDing your handwriting in the sig? LOL

[AtheistCrusader]

127. Sorry, can't parse that sentence.

Edit: Ah, you cleaned it up.

A CPL should be prima facie evidence one is 21 years of age or older. After all, you must be 21 to obtain one.


You keep calling it a permit. Pull yours out and look it over. Does the word 'Permit' or 'license' appear on it multiple times?
Other than a photo, does yours fail to contain any information that is on your drivers license?

You realize my brother, who is 4 years older than me, could totally pass for me on my DL based upon photo alone, right? So could 2 of my friends at work.

[MyrnaLoy]

129. rightttt

didn't think so

[AtheistCrusader]

132. You edited your post to fix it.

Thank you, now I understand it. I posted a response above.

As for where I have used it for ID, to obtain alcohol at an event. And no, I was not carrying. But we had run for 10k prior to getting there, so I wasn't carrying my wallet. I have also used it as primary ID at a King County Courthouse.

What now?

[MyrnaLoy]

135. so

they used a piece of paper with no photo to ID you? See where this is going? Either they were very stupid or well, ya know....

Can you see where this is sort of hard to believe? You bought alcohol with a non-photo ID? No matter how I say it it sounds so unlikely doesn't it.

[AtheistCrusader]

138. I'm over 30, the guy just wanted to see something, likely.

But the courthouse, specifically, a King County Sherrif used it as primary ID. I did not offer him my driver's license. He signed me in, and sent me on my way. I don't tend to think of them as idiots.

And I really don't care if you believe it or not.

[MyrnaLoy]

139. Glad to

know King County is so diligent LOL. I need to sell fake CWPs, evidently in King County you can use them for everything, LOL Easier to make than drivers licenses too!

[AtheistCrusader]

140. If you have one, like you said

you can see multiple watermarks, and security artifacts. It's not just a piece of paper.

[MyrnaLoy]

142. I do have one

and without a photo on it, it's a stupid ID lol. Answer me this, do you think it's easier to make a Wa DL or a Wa CWP? It's a very simple question.

[AtheistCrusader]

146. The new Drivers License is harder.

The DL I had when I was issued this CPL, was not harder. The media had a watermark. Just like the securitized paper of my current CPL. The entire 'paper' backing of the old DL was a photograph. Adding someone's face is trivial. I'll let you know next year if the CPL's security marks have improved or not. I'm up for renewal in 14 months.

[AtheistCrusader]

147. This is more of a snark, but what is a CWP?

[PavePusher]

150. Only ID I know of outside of Military or LEO agency....

that actually requires a background check.

I'd call that a little more legit than some candy-ass Driver's Licence obtainable by anyone with a pulse and open eyelids.

[cleanhippie]

144. Funny, you questioning the validity of a story, considering you have TWO whoppers

you refuse to reconcile.

:rofl:

[MyrnaLoy]

114. Cute

Slip in the word secondary. Takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it?

[rrneck]

122. Was this a secondary post?

I can't resist a straight line. :evilgrin:

[MyrnaLoy]

31. Washington

[krispos42]

90. The one I had from South Dakota didn't have a picture

Just an address and a description of me. I didn't even have to sign it... just the Sec. of State's printed signature was one it.

[YllwFvr]

101. Same here

I got mine not long before they switched to drivers license style cards. Mine is an ugly slip of paper, without photo.

[rl6214]

74. It is issued by the state, it has a picture

It is an ID

[MyrnaLoy]

79. Wrong again

Mine from Washington doesn't have a photo

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Euromutt]

98. It varies by state, people

Some state-issued CCW permits are valid photo IDs, some are not.

[GreenStormCloud]

47. It is a valid government issued ID.

That being said, I always show my driver's license and keep the CHL out of sight. Only a few select friends, with whome I talk about guns, know that I have one.

[MyrnaLoy]

80. iD

Without a photo? Good luck with that.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. Mine's been accepted at two different banks.

Including by a notary public as a secondary piece of ID.

You know people use their SSID card as a secondary form of ID as well right? That doesn't even have your signature on it. They did away with the red letter warning at the bottom of the card that said 'Not to be used for Identification Purposes' in the mid-80's, IIRC.

[MyrnaLoy]

113. I like

How when you're wrong you try to slip in the word secondary, that was cute. Go buy beer with it.

[GreenStormCloud]

123. Depends upon the state. Texas has photo. N/T

[MyrnaLoy]

88. Have you

found out yet that Washington's CWP doesn't have a photo? Makes a great ID doesn't it?

[YllwFvr]

100. When I go out on patrol

I will hide my firearm under my vest. If I ever need it I will surprise them by pulling it out.
When the criminal has his knife on you, our pulls a gun on you, go ahead and surprise them. When you are ambushed, you don't respond by ambushing them back. Thats how I was trained at least.

[MyrnaLoy]

29. So, to sum up

Historically, the only thing Idaho college students needed to fear was concealed weapons permit holders. ""To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment," Davis told Jonathan Sawmiller, a student at the University of Idaho, a graduate of Boise State and an Iraq War veteran."

Idaho did the right thing today. College, drinking, frat parties and guns don't mix.

[Factoid]

35. I would think,

That Idaho's primary issue is that they allow people to drink and carry at the same time.

That's dangerous anywhere, and I would recommend that they focus on that, rather than curtailing those who are NOT drunk from carrying on campus.

That's what we've done up here in Colorado, and there haven't been any drunk permit holders shooting anyone at CSU. :)

[MyrnaLoy]

41. Yet

[RSillsbee]

57. I carried all through college. no blood in the streets

No one even knew I had it

[YllwFvr]

102. You were an accident waiting to happen

Don't know how to insert sarcasm smiley on my phone

[oneshooter]

134. And I bet you don't have any video to proove it!!! n/t

[rl6214]

86. And you haven't sexually assaulted anyone

yet

[LAGC]

59. In Idaho, its a misdemeanor if you are caught carrying concealed while inebriated.

Arrests of that sort don't happen very often.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. To be blunt, Idaho colleges are no safer than they were before.

All the legal factors that were in effect when the younger Davis was shot and killed are still the same, all efforts to portray

his shooting as something that would have been affected by the proposed legislation notwithstanding:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x395363#395366

[MyrnaLoy]

40. Well

They'll be safe from drunk cwp holders for now.

[pipoman]

49. They will? How's that?

Apparently cwp holders weren't allowed on campus at the time of the shooting you are citing, no?

[PavePusher]

62. Right.... Hint: Ink on paper doth not a fortress wall produce. n/t

[pipoman]

48. Wrong

Historically, the only thing Idaho college students needed to fear was concealed weapons permit holders.

Historically only 1 concealed weapons permit holder has been involved in a college shooting, and that was apparently off campus and was alcohol related.

The thing most college students should fear is a laughable little non-issue to you...

A Snapshot of Annual High-Risk College Drinking Consequences

The consequences of excessive and underage drinking affect virtually all college campuses, college communities, and college students, whether they choose to drink or not.

* Death: 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor vehicle crashes (Hingson et al., 2009).

* Injury: 599,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are unintentionally injured under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2009).

* Assault: 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking (Hingson et al., 2009).

* Sexual Abuse: 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape (Hingson et al., 2009).

* Unsafe Sex: 400,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 had unprotected sex and more than 100,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having been too intoxicated to know if they consented to having sex (Hingson et al., 2002).

* Academic Problems: About 25 percent of college students report academic consequences of their drinking including missing class, falling behind, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall (Engs et al., 1996; Presley et al., 1996a, 1996b; Wechsler et al., 2002).

* Health Problems/Suicide Attempts: More than 150,000 students develop an alcohol-related health problem (Hingson et al., 2002), and between 1.2 and 1.5 percent of students indicate that they tried to commit suicide within the past year due to drinking or drug use (Presley et al., 1998).

* Drunk Driving: 3,360,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 drive under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2009).

* Vandalism: About 11 percent of college student drinkers report that they have damaged property while under the influence of alcohol (Wechsler et al., 2002).

* Property Damage: More than 25 percent of administrators from schools with relatively low drinking levels and over 50 percent from schools with high drinking levels say their campuses have a "moderate" or "major" problem with alcohol-related property damage (Wechsler et al., 1995).

* Police Involvement: About 5 percent of 4-year college students are involved with the police or campus security as a result of their drinking (Wechsler et al., 2002), and 110,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are arrested for an alcohol-related violation such as public drunkenness or driving under the influence (Hingson et al., 2002).

* Alcohol Abuse and Dependence: 31 percent of college students met criteria for a diagnosis of alcohol abuse and 6 percent for a diagnosis of alcohol dependence in the past 12 months, according to questionnaire-based self-reports about their drinking (Knight et al., 2002).

http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/statssummaries/snapshot.aspx

[spin]

81. Just because you live in Idaho there is no guarantee ...

that some shooter with a severe mental problem will never decide to visit one of your campuses because it is a shooting gallery where he can rack up a high score before he chooses to kill himself or is shot by the police.

If licensed people were allowed to legally carry on your campuses, the shooter might decide to attack another target. If he did launch his attack on the campus, there is also a chance that a person with a legal concealed weapon could stop his attack.

The overwhelming number of people who are licensed to carry a firearm are responsible individuals who know that firearms and alcohol do not mix. If they were so stupid as to drink to excess while "packing heat" there would be far more than 168 people in Florida who have had their licenses revoked for a crime involving the use of a firearm after the license was issued in the last 23 years. Florida has issued 1,935,722 concealed carry permits in that period of time and currently 793,809 are valid. (source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html)

Perhaps I am wrong and going to college today means most students who attend are so immature and totally irresponsible that they can not be trusted to carry a firearm, while other young people of the same age who do not attend college are mature and ARE responsible enough to carry one.

Lots of things have changed in this nation since I was of college age in the 1960s. Perhaps you can explain to me why college is such a bad environment for young people that it causes them to lose commonsense. Perhaps we also need to deny college students driver's licenses because they might drive after attending a frat party. How many people are killed or injured by drunk college students? Perhaps we need to make alcohol consumption illegal for people who attend college. Maybe we should make colleges illegal as they cause so much irresponsibility and bad behavior.

Maybe I need to try to convince my grandsons that they should avoid going to college at all costs - especially if college students are as bad as you suggest.

[Callisto32]

43. Your carefully constructed ruse (or CCR, for short) is beginning to crumble.

:hi:

[Atypical Liberal]

50. Off-campus shooting unaffected by proposed law.

""To you and the other presenters here today, my 23-year-old son was shot, eight years ago last week, by a concealed weapons permit holder. Both BSU students. Off-campus at a college environment,""

The shooting happened off-campus, and was one of the very rare instance where a CCW permit holder committed a crime.

The proposed law would do nothing to affect concealed carry off-campus.

[LAGC]

61. Exactly.

Most of the college binge drinking happens off-campus in frat houses to begin with.

The proposed law wouldn't have made it any more legal. Drinking while carrying concealed is already against the law in Idaho.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cleanhippie]

70. You seem to be having trouble with the facts. It was OFF campus, not on, so this OP is irrelevant.

But you knew that.

[MyrnaLoy]

87. wanna know what's relevant?

Concealed carry failed to pass in the Idaho session LOL. I don't need a laughing icon, you're funny all by yourself.

[cleanhippie]

104. For someone who has a record of untruth, you sure are full of yourself.

I guess that integrity or credibility is something you care little about, since your posts have none.

[rl6214]

110. As stated in post 71

Not dead, just not in this session

Debate continues on the bill, which passed the House earlier this month. The bill will likely need amendments to make it through the Senate.

She has just proven again that her posts are full of half truths and outright lies.

[rl6214]

71. Not dead, just not in this session

Debate continues on the bill, which passed the House earlier this month. The bill will likely need amendments to make it through the Senate.



Read more: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/03/25/idahopolitics/sen_davis_says_guns_campus_not_intellectual_exercise_me_and_my_f#ixzz1HjzKYRns

[YllwFvr]

103. I imagine it will make a come back

Perhaps as a rider attached to another bill. It took a few tries for us to get a stand your ground law passed here.

[Starboard Tack]

76. Some sanity remains.

[Taitertots]

92. Why are you being intellectually dishonest?

By citing a story about activities that would be totally unaffected by this law.

[MyrnaLoy]

93. You should

really bring that up with the senate majority leader, he's the one who brought it up on the house floor. See, it was his son killed by a cwp holder.

[Taitertots]

94. Why don't you address it, you are the one posting it here?

You are the one who is on DU being intellectually dishonest. Why post things that you know/should know are totally bullshit?

[MyrnaLoy]

95. Ok

A drunk college student with a concealed weapons permit got mad at a fraternity party and shot a kid to death. A, who goes to frat parties? B, who goes to colleges? Answer to both, college kids!

Location? Fraternity House on Greek row controlled by the university. No, the university didn't own the house, none do, no they don't own the neighborhood either. Most are under university police protection though. Location? Doesn't matter, shooter had gun everywhere he went, drinking or not. Next point, if he showed bad judgment carrying a gun and drinking then he would have used the same bad judgement somewhere else.

Analysis, college kid with a concealed weapon permit shot and killed an unarmed citizen while at a University recognized fraternity. Result, you guys lost Idaho. I hope you loose many more.

That about do it for you?

[Taitertots]

97. That has nothing to do with the law in question

Not on campus
Already illegally carrying
Would remain totally illegal if this law passed.
Does nothing to support your cause.

Analysis, you can't find any evidence to support your assertions that this law is dangerous so you post intellectually dishonest non-sense in the hopes that some people are so ignorant that they don't know that the law has nothing to do with this case. Look across the nation, legal carry has done nothing but expand and cause no problems. Seems like the only losers are the people who oppose Concealed Carry.

[MyrnaLoy]

105. Actually

The looser here is the kid killed by someone with a concealed weapon permit. Also what makes you think I oppose concealed carry, I have a Washington permit. I oppose concealed on college campuses.

[Straw Man]

112. So...

The looser here is the kid killed by someone with a concealed weapon permit. Also what makes you think I oppose concealed carry, I have a Washington permit. I oppose concealed on college campuses.

...do you think that this a shooting could not have happened off-campus? Or that it's worse because it happened on-campus? Do you think that you would shoot someone if you were to carry on campus? Do you think that college campuses are somehow unique in either (a) being free from violent crime and therefore from the need for self-defense, or (b) being places where concealed-carriers are more likely to shoot someone illegally and unnecessarily?

If the answer to these questions is "no," then the campus carry ban is pointless.

[cleanhippie]

118. But THIS incident happened OFF CAMPUS. This law would have had NOTHING to do with it.

But you KNOW that, even though you have tried, unsuccessfully, to portray it as having happened ON campus.

You are being very untruthful and dishonest. You have BEEN untruthful and dishonest on several occasions.


Why should anyone give your opinions any credibility at all?

[PavePusher]

151. So, you must also believe that you, personally, would be a threat to the public...

should you walk onto a campus while armed? But 20 feet prior, you were just a good Citizen?

[rl6214]

111. Reading is fundamental

Try it. The bill is NOT dead, just tabled for this session. It can and will be brought up in the next session with or without amendments. See post #71 for the link although you should have already read it.

[cleanhippie]

119. No, MyrnaLoy, YOU stated that it took place ON campus, when in fact, it took place OFF campus.

And you KNEW that and intentionally changed it in your OP.


Why?

[friendly_iconoclast]

124. Indeed she did, in post #3 above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x395363#395365


Protip: Leave such blatant prevarication to Newt Gingrich or the governor of Wisconsin. It ill suits

a DUer...

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MyrnaLoy]

130. I'm a He

don't be so sexist

[cleanhippie]

133. You should be more concerned with why you chose to post a falsehood

Quote from you: The only killing done on an Idaho campus... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=395363&mesg_id=395366


When in FACT, it took place OFF campus.


Why would you do that?

[MyrnaLoy]

136. did

you ever answer or are you still running?

[cleanhippie]

145. The only one running is you. You have TWO whoppers you refuse to reconcile.

Your credibility is shot, so I don't expect you to.

[Union Scribe]

99. We can only trust young people with guns when they're killng Muslims overseas.

I guess that's the message.

[aikoaiko]

109. This will change in time. Eventually.

The argument against on-campus carry is intellectually bankrupt.

[MyrnaLoy]

115. Evidently

Not in Idaho lol

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aikoaiko]

121. Maybe not, but I do know laws concerning carrying guns are becoming more liberal.

If this is a victory for you, then cling to it like your blankie from your toddler days because such victories are fewer and fewer.

[rrneck]

131. Another wandering thread with no light but lotsa heat. nt

[MyrnaLoy]

137. Did you hear the news?

NO GUNS on campus in Idaho, Yeaaaaaa!

[rl6214]

141. Did YOU hear the news?

It's not dead, just #71 but you don't have the honesty to address that, you just keep crowing that there are "no guns on campus in Idaho" when it's not settled yet.

Try to be honest in at least one of your posts.

[MyrnaLoy]

143. LOL

wait.... NO GUNS ON CAMPUSES IN IDAHO.... YEA!!!

[armueller2001]

148. No guns on campuses in Idaho...

yet.

YEA!!!

[oneshooter]

152. Don't you mean no LEGAL guns on campus?

After all the ILLEGAL weapons are still there.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas