GUNS IN THE NEWS--February 11, 2004

[MrBenchley]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

1. Police Arrest 2 in Alleged Shooting Plot (CA)

"SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Two 15-year-old students in a suburban Sacramento school district have been arrested, averting what police say was a plan to open fire on a group of students during lunch on Wednesday.
The boys — a freshman and a sophomore — planned to steal guns from a local sporting goods store and set off explosives in Laguna Creek High School's cafeteria, the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department said Tuesday.
The boys had not obtained any weapons or explosives at the time of their arrest, police said, but they had access to a rifle at one of their homes. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040211/ap_on_re_us/school_threat_2

[MrBenchley]

2. Independence Police Investigate Drive-By Shooting (MO)

"Police are investigating a drive-by shooting in the 1300 block of North Osage.
The shooting happened Tuesday afternoon. A neighbor told police a black vehicle -- possibly a Monte Carlo -- left the scene at a high rate of speed.
Independence officer Bill Pross said the shots were fired into a vacant second-floor apartment. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_kmbc/2002162

[MrBenchley]

3. Police Officer Shot In Boston

"Officials are investigating the shooting of a Boston police officer.
The officer was shot on Massachusetts Avenue early Wednesday morning while serving a warrant.
According to sources, the injuries are not serious and the officer was taken to an area hospital. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_WCVB/2002720

[MrBenchley]

4. Wayward sea lion was shot in head (CA)

Praise Jeebus! The spirit of the wilderness descends again!

"Chippy, the sea lion found wandering in the Central Valley on Monday, had been shot in the head within the past few days, according to officials at the wildlife center where he is being treated.
Brodie said the bullet wound had not healed over, indicating that he had probably been shot ``within the last couple of days.'' She said California sea lions heal quickly.
Brodie said sea lions are the only kind of animal the Marine Mammal Center sees with gunshot wounds. About 8 percent of California sea lions the center treats each year have been shot. The animals are notorious for seizing fish from lines and nets of fishing boats."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7926478.htm

[RoeBear]

5. Point is...

...what?

[MrBenchley]

8. Thuddingly obvious

[slackmaster]

13. Then you should be able to articulate it pretty easily

For the benefit of those among us who don't pull assumptions out of the air.

[RoeBear]

22. "pull assumptions out of the air"

That wasn't the location I was thinking of. O8)

[CO Liberal]

10. Point Is This

Yet another "responsible, law-abiding gun owner" that none of us have to worry about......

[demsrule4life]

11. So the point is if

NOBODY owned guns you would never have to worry again?

[Sandpiper]

18. Seems to work pretty well in Japan

[demsrule4life]

19. Common people in Japan

has be forbidden to own weapons for centuries, and it wasn't because the Govt was trying to make life safer for them.

[Sandpiper]

21. Thanks for answering a question I never asked

But, if gun control doesn't work, why hasn't Japan gotten the message? Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the industrialized world, the U.S. some of the loosest. Let's take a look at the ineffectiveness of gun control:

*All rates are per 100,000

Japan: Gun Homicides: 0.03, Gun Suicides: 0.04,
Total Intentional Gun Deaths: 0.07

United States: Gun Homicides: 6.24, Gun Suicides: 7.23,
Total Intentional Gun Deaths: 13.47

[slackmaster]

ROTFLMAO - "Gun suicides" statistic for Japan?

If you want to engage in an honest discussion about the effect of gun laws on suicide rates you'll have to talk about overall suicides in Japan.

Last time I checked the suicide rate in Japan exceeded the rate of total "gun deaths" for all causes for the US.

[demsrule4life]

23. You can print all the stats you want

Life in Japan is much more stringent and controlled and the average American would refuse to live that way. And of course Japan does not have a "melting pot" culture as we have. Is suicide by gun worse then suicide by knife? If I'm not mistaken Japan has a higher suicide rate then ours.

[Sandpiper]

24. And I will

I love throwing data in the faces of you pro gunners that shows effective gun control policy, and how more guns leads to more gun deaths.

Here's another one for you. Of the 26 industrialized nations, 85% of all children killed by firearms are killed in the United States.

[demsrule4life]

25. Anything you say

grasshopper.

[Sandpiper]

26. You can't refute the numbers

So you try to shrug it off by acting snide. It just keeps getting better. ;-)

[demsrule4life]

27. What is it

20,000 plus kids die a day around the world due to lack of clean water and enough food? Have you donated today?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sandpiper]

36. I'm sorry

But was their some sort of point you were trying to make?

[demsrule4life]

42. I see Japan is finally starting to join the 21 century

Japan set to criminalize gang rape

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20040211p2a00m0dm010001c.html

Looks like thier tough gun laws cant keep guns out of the country either.

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20040212p2a00m0dm001000c.html

[slackmaster]

50. The funny part is that you look only at "gun deaths"

As if that was a meaningful measure of something particularly in the realm of suicide ratess, which most research has shown to be independent of the availability of any particular method. In Japan the preferred route to the afterlife is by jumping off a tall building. Before they had tall buildings people used edged weapons.

[CO Liberal]

20. No....

Just that there are people in this world who do stupid things. And many of those stupid things are done with guns.

[slackmaster]

12. Under what circumstances was that sea lion shot?

Since nobody knows, it is not proper to assume that it was shot illegally. Even protected animals can be shot in self-defense or to stop depredation of livestock here in California. There are many fish hatcheries along that river, so it's quite possible that the animal was shot by a farmer protecting his assets.

[CO Liberal]

28. I Doubt It Was Engaged in a Home Invasion....

...or a shootout with a cop.

:-)

[Sandpiper]

29. It was probably a drug crazed sea lion

That was trying to violate the man's wife. :D

[CO Liberal]

32. Or Rob a 7-11

:-)

[slackmaster]

48. For all the trite responses to my post

Y'all still don't know where, when, why, or by whom the animal was shot.

[CO Liberal]

51. From The Article

Brodie said there are a number of reasons why someone might have shot the animal.

"It could be out of fear, it could be out of protection, or because of suffering and to put the animal out of its misery," she said.

The poor sea lion may have also been shot by some sicko asshole son-of-a-bitch who shouldn't be anywhere NEAR a gun. We'll probably never know.

But we DO know the sea lion was injured by a bullet piercing his body.

[slackmaster]

52. It seems some of you always want to assume the worst

In the absence of any way to know what happened I simply have no opinion. The fact that the animal may be in pain matters a lot more to me than what bad reason there might have been for it to have been shot.

[CO Liberal]

54. And It Seems Some Of You...

...will go to any length and stretch the limits of logic to defend just about any asshole with a gun.

[slackmaster]

58. Who's defending anyone here?

I said we don't know who shot the sea lion or why.

How does that constitute defending some asshole with a gun?

[alwynsw]

43. Another option

Yet another "responsible, law-abiding gun owner" that none of us have to worry about......

Or it could be the result of a commercial fisherman protecting his livelihood.

Problem is, we won't know unless the shooter comes forward. Don't strain too hard jumping to conclusions.

edited to fix html booboo

[NorthernSpy]

33. poor sea lion

At least they think he'll be okay. Apparently, the bullet didn't enter his cranium. Whoever hurt him was a lousy shot, fortunately.

Mary

[slackmaster]

49. I second the vote of sympathy for the unfortunate animal

Whatever circumstances resulted in the bullet in his head, it surely had something to do with human encroachment on his environment. He's an innocent victim no matter what.

[MrBenchley]

6. Prosecutor links S.J. slayings

"A Santa Clara County prosecutor said Tuesday that the Dec. 22 slaying of Nelson Mayorga was a ``gang-type assassination-murder'' that is related to a double homicide at an East San Jose Jack in the Box restaurant less than two weeks later.
In both cases, authorities say, the alleged gunmen were Norteño gang members and the victims were rival Sureño members.
As a result, the public defender's office and the alternate defender's office, which are each representing suspects in the Jack in the Box shootings, declared a conflict of interest Tuesday at the first court appearance of the 16-year-old charged in the Mayorga slaying."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7926486.htm

[MrBenchley]

7. Prosecutor links S.J. slayings

"A Santa Clara County prosecutor said Tuesday that the Dec. 22 slaying of Nelson Mayorga was a ``gang-type assassination-murder'' that is related to a double homicide at an East San Jose Jack in the Box restaurant less than two weeks later.
In both cases, authorities say, the alleged gunmen were Norteño gang members and the victims were rival Sureño members.
As a result, the public defender's office and the alternate defender's office, which are each representing suspects in the Jack in the Box shootings, declared a conflict of interest Tuesday at the first court appearance of the 16-year-old charged in the Mayorga slaying."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7926486.htm

[MrBenchley]

9. 1 Of 12 Shots Fired At Pickup Truck Kills Driver (TX)

"Random gunfire killed the driver of a pickup truck parked on a northeast Houston street Tuesday night, News2Houston reported.
Investigators said the victim, along with two other friends, were sitting in the truck on the 8700 block of Lockwood around 10:15 p.m. when someone fired a gun at them several times.
Officials said one of the friends quickly got behind the driver's wheel and drove his friend to LBJ Hospital, where he was pronounced dead on arrival. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_kprc/2002862

[MrBenchley]

14. Woman: 4-Year-Old Grandson Shot Me (TX)

Another family made safer with guns....

"A Houston woman shot in the face told officials her 4-year-old grandson pulled the trigger.
 The victim's grandson told officials he was not responsible for the shooting.
Investigators suspect the grandmother's boyfriend might have been the shooter. Family members told investigators the couple has a rocky relationship and that the gun was his. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_kprc/2002844

[MrBenchley]

15. Police: 13-Year-Old Shoots, Kills 14-Year-Old (FL)

Police are investigating a reported fight between two young teenagers in Riviera Beach that ended in a shooting death.
According to police, a 13-year-old boy shot and killed David Walker, 14, outside an apartment building around 6 p.m. Tuesday in the sea-side community just north of West Palm Beach.
It is unclear at this point what the shooting was over. Neighbors described Walker, who was in eighth grade, as a happy boy who never got into trouble. He was shot in the chest. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_wplg/2003334

[MrBenchley]

16. Man Shot Several Times On Local Street (OH)

"Few details are available, but police said the shooting took place shortly before noon Wednesday near 956 Fairbanks Ave. in East Price Hill.
The severity of the victim's injuries is not known, nor is the reason for the shooting. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&ncid=410&e=3&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_wlwt/2003360

[MrBenchley]

17. Child, crossing guard wounded by gunfire in North Philadelphia

"PHILADELPHIA (AP) | -- An 8-year-old boy was shot in the face in a school playground and a school crossing guard was wounded in the foot by gunfire Wednesday morning in North Philadelphia, police said.
The victims were apparently caught in the crossfire as two men began shooting at each other from separate cars just after 8:30 a.m., police department spokesman Cpl. Jim Pauley said.
The shooting occurred at 23rd and Cambria streets near the Pierce Elementary School, where the boy was standing in the schoolyard when he was shot, Pauley said."

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-shooting0211,0,2979007.story?coll=all-aol-yahoo-nws-hed

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[MrBenchley]

31. Priest Sentenced in Church Gun Incident (PA)

What made America great is God, Guns and....holy crap! the priest shot himself!

"LEBANON, Pa. - A Serbian Orthodox priest was sentenced to at least six months in prison for pulling a gun on a church leader while arguing over church business.
The Rev. Filip Velisavljevic was sentenced to between six and 23 months for simple assault and the same term for reckless endangerment. Judge Samuel Kline said the priest can serve the sentences together and should be eligible for work-release.
During the 2002 argument in the church social hall, Velisavljevic's pistol went off and the bullet apparently grazed his own foot. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040211/ap_on_re_us/brf_priest_gun_struggle_1

[MrBenchley]

35. Mom Sentenced for Tot's Shooting Death (MI)

JACKSON, Mich. - A woman whose 6-year-old son was killed while playing with a loaded gun was sentenced Wednesday to a month in jail.
Police said the boy was playing with the handgun on Sept. 10 when one of his older brothers tried to take it away, and the gun discharged. D'juan and his two brothers, ages 7 and 11 at the time, had been alone in the apartment, where Anderson said the unregistered gun was kept in a closet. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040211/ap_on_re_us/brf_mother_sentenced_1

[MrBenchley]

37. Truck Struck By Possible Bullet Being Examined (OH)

"A tractor-trailer is being examined by the Cuyahoga County Trace Evidence Examiner after it was discovered that it may have been hit by the Columbus area highway shooter Tuesday, NewsChannel5 reported.
According to A & R Transport, truck driver William Love was driving the truck from Louisville, Ky., en route to Avon Lake, when he drove through an area just south of Columbus Tuesday at about 12:30 a.m. The driver stopped in Columbus at the company's Harmon Avenue terminal. The driver left the terminal at 1:20 a.m. and traveled north through Marion to Route 4 to Avon Lake.
A & R said Love did not hear any gunshots, but when he exited the truck after reaching Avon Lake, he noticed what appeared to be a bullet hole in the sleeping compartment of the truck. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=387&ncid=387&e=4&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_wews/2002163

[MrBenchley]

38. Police Chase, Carjacking End In Suicide (NM)

"It all began about 9 a.m. at 208 Bowman St. in Farmington, where police came looking for Watanna Racawan, 21, who was wanted on a weapons charge. Officers said he avoided them at his house, jumped in his vehicle and sped away.
After several failed attempts to stop him - including trying to spike his tires - police said Racawan finally pulled over at a rest area south of Bloomfield. But police said that with a gun in his hand, Racawan carjacked another vehicle and sped away for the second time.
The chase continued on New Mexico Highway 550 for several miles before coming to an end just north of Cuba. Police said Racawans vehicle got stuck in the mud and he ran off on foot. They said he fired at officers numerous times and the officers returned the fire.
Investigators said the standoff continued for about an hour until Racawan turned his gun on himself and fired into his chest. They said he died instantly. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ibsys/20040211/lo_koat/2002442&e=3&ncid=375

[Stoker]

39. Aint it great?

When the criminals take themselves out of the gene pool?

Stoker

[MrSandman]

40. Saves on bleach

;-)

[NorthernSpy]

41. No.

"Great" is when a criminal, no matter how far gone, makes a decision to stop doing harm and to reform his life. People you'll never hear about do just that every single day -- your facile essentialism notwithstanding. This guy's suicide was just a pointless bloody ending, that's all.


Mary

[alwynsw]

47. Coffins are cheaper than courtrooms

There's a little boost to the NM budget this year - and for several more to come.

[alwynsw]

44. Shame, shame, shame

6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

See posts 4, 14, 31.

Please abide by your own posting rules when commenting on news reports.

[demsrule4life]

45. You just catching on?

Two sets of rules here.

[alwynsw]

46. Nah.

Just being nitpicky this morning. Sometimes it's fun to illustrate the obvious.


COFFEE MUST HAVE MORE COFFEE.

[slackmaster]

53. Rules? Ther're not even ink on paper here

Just 1s and 0s.

[CO Liberal]

55. Who Are You Directing This Comment To??? And Why???

Please illuminate us.

[alwynsw]

56. Read the referenced posts and the rule

(rule #)6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

Adherence to this rule clearly phohibits editorializing in the post that introduces a referenced "Guns in the News" report. Rule #6 clearly states that comments are to be made by replying to the story, in this case the reply would, by necessity, be directed to the post in which it was introduced.

I realize that adherence to the rules is on the honor system, but it would seem that the originator of the thread, whom I would like to point out, posted the rules, would adhere to those rules in the same manner that he requests others to do so.

This begs a question. Do the rules apply selectively, dependent upon subsequent poster's alignment with the originator?

edited to remove improper plural

[slackmaster]

57. Thuddingly obvious

"See posts 4, 14, 31."

[alwynsw]

59. You stated it so much better than I ever could.

I bow to your wisdom, O Great Master of Pith.