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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:21 PM
Original message
Just my opinion.
What follows is my opinion and not a request for debate of individual points made here. It is an invitation for contemplation of issues and solutions.

Why do people other than criminals own guns? For some segments of the population the answer is quite simple: some are genuine collectors preserving historical pieces, a small number actually live or work in places that make self defense a real possibility, some are target shooters who enjoy honing the physical and mental skills necessary to make holes very close together in targets far away, and of course there are the hunters.

For the rest, that part of the population not easily pigeonholed, the reasons vary. Children are fascinated by the “magic” of firearms; something done here causes something to happen over there. For some this carries over into adulthood because of the feeling of power that magic implies. Others enjoy a finely tuned piece of machinery and some, let’s face it, just enjoy the noise and mayhem.

For most of these there are parallels with other things. People collect stamps or old letters to preserve history, others master chess or cabinetry as a skill and gear-heads enjoy both the power and finely tuned machinery of their cars. In any event, for those who enjoy them, guns are just fun neat things to shoot and keep.

As for the justifications, well, that’s all they are; justifications. Self defense? At 20 feet an assailant with a knife can reach you in 1.5 seconds. Reaction time of college freshmen expecting a stimulus is .2 seconds, twice that if not anticipating it. That leaves 1.1 seconds to draw, unsafe, aim and fire. The assailant will always have the advantage because they are prepared and no amount of situational awareness can offset that. Have a gun in your car for protection? What if that “will work for food” guy suddenly sticks a gun in your face through the window and carjacks you? Opening the glove box, console or reaching under the seat is pretty much out of the question so now the guy has your car and a second gun. It might be possible to defend someone else if you aren’t the target, but SELF defense is exceedingly difficult.

Overturning a tyrannical government is likely the same. Tunisia and Egypt succeeded in revolt because the army let them and they didn’t use guns. Libya isn’t doing so well even though the Rebels have equivalent weaponry (except air power) to the Loyalists but they don’t have Command and Control, a Chain of Command, or training in tactics or strategy. Waco, Ruby Ridge and the Republic of Texas didn’t end well for those “rebels” and they only had the ATF to deal with, how would they fair against the Marines?

For all the teeth gnashing about self defense, the militia and the second amendment the reason we like guns is that they’re fun, interesting and just downright enjoyable to shoot, collect and study. Only a tiny minority of sane non-criminals hurt themselves or others through clumsiness or ignorance. Besides, hard cases make bad law, so reacting to Columbine, Virginia tech and Tucson while ignoring the thousands hurt one at a time through that clumsiness and ignorance or mental illness makes no sense.

So, given all this doesn’t it make sense for those with experience and knowledge in firearms to be involved in the process of defining the issues surrounding gun violence and finding solutions to those issues?

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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. You are a rock star NT
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. On the issue of self defense ...
... where is there any evidence of concealed carriers getting killed or seriously injured? I know of exactly two: one dead and one seriously injured

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=387029&mesg_id=387086
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I didn't say that and I didn't invite debate on my opinions. The OP is
simply an invitation to contemplate why we really own guns and what part we, as knowledgeable experienced gun owners should take in the shaping of policy.
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. So everyone should just hush up and let false information stand? I'm going with a no.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes. I collect them because they are pretty damned interesting.
They represent some of the best metallurgy, engineering, and manufacturing available at whatever time they were made.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I enjoy rhe varience of development brought by the society they served.
The MN is designed for a soldier who never used a tool more sophisticated than a shovel and the trigger mechanism has two parts. The Swiss 7.5 has multiple cams in the bolt and levers, springs and cams in the trigger assembly. Just too cool!
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Panic pays.
The debate surrounding guns is another example of the Shock Doctrine in action.

Any event, a shooting, an election, or the internal politics of some neighboring country is enough to open the thundering rush to the tribal group-think defensiveness market. That's where the big money is. Selling something to people that they've already got.

Never touched a gun? Who needs 'em! Make 'em go away and solve my problems. Really into guns? They're indispensable do everything tools no home should be without. The more extreme the partisan rhetoric, the more market value it has.

Thars gold in them thar hills!
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Can't say I disagree. T'would be nice to not have THAT conversation. nt
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Let's contemplate why having guns should be elevated to a constitutional right, shall we?
Takes considerable mental contorting to accomplish THAT.

"Fun" just doesn't cut it.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
13.  Lets not. n/t
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Already been decided
and FUN had nothing to do with it.
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The single best reason to own a gun,
After personal and family defense is as a gesture of defiance. To thoroughly piss off people who think civilians should not have guns.

Just think of all those guns out there as giant metal, wood and plastic middle fingers saying

"Screw you jack, I'm not going to let someone with your mindset tell me what to do. I'm not going to let you self appointed moralists on the right and left tell me how to behave. You will not stop me from owning as many guns as I want. Or stop me from drinking, or smoking, or eating "bad" foods, or going to a strip club. "
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. That an exercise in futility, shares, as it already IS a Constitutional right.
But you knew that.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. You expect us to let that incorrect information and spin go unchallenged?
a small number actually live or work in places that make self defense a real possibility,
In Texas alone over 400K citizens have gotten their Concealed Handgun License. Nationally the best estimates are about eight million citizens with CCWs.

The assailant will always have the advantage because they are prepared and no amount of situational awareness can offset that.
Anybody who would say something like that is completely unaware of proper tactics. The element of surprise can be taken away from the criminal before he strikes so that he attacks into a prepared defense.
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. OP appears to be exercising the "la-la-la I am not listening" approach
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. Having defended myself from a man with a knife at less than 20 feet..
And having known others who've defended themselves from others with guns and knives.. I think you're a bit off base.

In answer to your question, though, yes, it does make sense to define the issues from a position of knowledge, rather than ignorance or ideological pedagogical peccadillo.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. How do we "contemplate" your incorrect information or assertions?
I spotted several incorrect pieces of information right off the bat in your editorial - why would I knowingly use bad data to contemplate the issue?
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I'd say the best way to contemplate it
Is to just keep the OPs subject line in mind "just my opinion" ;)
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DWC Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks for expressing your opinion openly and honestly
I will respect your request for no debate at this time and will contemplate your points and assumptions.

When you are ready for an open exchange of ideas on this topic, just let us know.

Semper Fi,
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. You have provided me nothing to contemplate because I disagree with some of your premises

and you do not wish to discuss those premises.
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