Republican bill would let gun owners carry concealed weapons without permits (Maine)

[jpak]

http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wgme_vid_6978.shtml\

A Maine lawmaker wants to make it easier for Mainers to carry around guns by stripping down the concealed weapons laws.

Under current Maine law, legal gun owners can bring their guns at most places in public, as long as they're exposed and out in the open. Gun owners tried to draw attention to Maine's open carry law in April 2010 when a University of Maine student staged a demonstration where people could show up with their guns legally displayed on their persons.

Under current Maine law, if your gun is exposed, you don't need to have your permit with you. But if it's concealed you need to have a permit to present on demand.

Now, Republican Representative Dale Crafts moran of Lisbon wants to change the law for gun owners so they only need to bring their permit when they're at places like a polling place or school.

<more>

This asshole republican law serves no useful purpose.

nope

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Makes sense to me. What's logical about requiring a permit when the gun can be carried without it?

The pistol can be alternatively carried without a permit to begin with. Seems like a waste of police/state resources to maintain a permit and record system that doesn't necessarily do anything. The state might as well save money if people don;t need to buy those licenses anyways.

:shrug:

[mvccd1000]

2. +1 (nt)

[jpak]

3. Asshole republicans want guns in schools, town meetings, libraries, polling places for political

intimidation.

We are not experiencing a crime wave in Maine

There is no rash of car jacking

Mugging

Hold ups

etc.

This is about political intimidation

period

[PavePusher]

4. Those poor Vermonters, so intimidated....

or... NOT.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. Why do you feel that adequete self defense is a partisan issue?

Yup

[jpak]

6. Republicans/teabaggers want guns everywhere to intimidate that's why

This has nothing to do with self defense

nope

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. There is no partisan correlation. How do you know democrats don't want to intimidate others?

Hell, you haven't even established that carrying a CONCEALED gun (let alone wearing it visibly) is actually "intimidation"... because no court in america has yet stated this axiom of your argument.

In not so many words... Your viewpoint is baseless.

[jpak]

8. Asshole Republicans nationwide are sponsoring these stupid gun and anti-union bills

the same big steaming pile of republican shit

yup

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

10. Blind squirrels find nuts all the time. I don't care if Oompa Loompas sponsor it, what's your point?

[jpak]

11. It's republican policy and it sucks

yup

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. Civil rights suck... gotcha.

Thanks for clarifying

yup

[jpak]

15. Trampling my rights - yup

yup

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Anytime, partner (n/t)

[jpak]

18. What is that supposed to mean - partner?

n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

39. It means we will trample your imaginary rights, with enumerated civil rights anytime.

Anytime.

[jpak]

43. The 9th and 10th amendments are imaginary? - who knew?

:rofl:

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Maybe if you READ them, you would understand how an incorporated, enumerated civil right

trumps states.

Keep laughing. It looks good on you.

[jpak]

51. I read them and understand them - the Founders put them there for a reason

So no one can trample on your rights that aren't specified

The Holy 2A does not trump all

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

57. The 2nd IS a specification.

[rl6214]

65. Please show where in the 9th and 10th amemdments

where is says you have a right to not be around a gun.

Go ahead, I'll wait,

and wait

and wait.

[armueller2001]

79. In that case

i will claim the 9th and 10th give me the right to not be around screaming kids. I will demand from the nearest police officer that he arrest the parents for violating my rights.

No but seriously, you do have the right to not be around people with (legal) guns. Just move to Illinois, or don't leave your house. No one is forcing you to go to the store or the movie theater, or anywhere in public for that matter. You have the right to CHOOSE FOR YOURSELF! Isn't freedom awesome?

[GreenStormCloud]

85. Those amendments don't forbid carrying guns.

Nor do they grant you a right to not be around them.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. Concealed weapons don't intimidate.

If you can see it, it isn't concealed.

If you can't see it, how can you be intimidated by it?

[PavePusher]

59. Cite to evidence, or cease your bullshit. n/t

[DWC]

63. jpak - Was I Wrong?

I recently wrote that, though our positions on gun issues were polar opposites, you maintained the High Road in the debate and had earned my respect.

I am a conservative which does not make me a Republican and I support the Tea Party Movement which does not make me homosexual.

Your comments here are repugnant.

Concerning "teabaggers". I do know several and they are all active, homosexual Democrats.

Semper Fi,

[jpak]

73. Dear DWC

This is Democraticunderground.com - I can't speak for all, but we do not support the tea party.

Teabagger is what most people here call tea partyiers

Please don't let on that you support the tea party - it's against the rules

[DWC]

74. Dear JPAK

You are absolutely correct. This is DEMOCRATICunderground.com and no one can speak for all.

I was a registered Democrat for a significant portion of my life and did not leave the party. The party left me. A significant percentage of Tea Party Movement supporters are in exactly the same position.

I participate in this site because I am wise enough to know that the political Right is NOT all right and the political Left is Not all wrong. On this site I am privileged to thoughts and perspectives from all political persuasions which leads to better understanding.

However vulgar, denegrating statements from any source is beneath the dignity of this site and civility in general. No matter how much we may disagree, such language is not appropriate.

Semper Fi,

[jpak]

76. Teabaggers have called themselves teabaggers - and most people on DU refer to them as teabaggers

that's the way it is

[DWC]

87. I must agree

Any self-described "teabagger" is probably proud of the moniker and may carry the title like The Red Badge of Courage. However, I have never encountered one participating in a Tea Party Movement event.

Semper Fi,

[rl6214]

64. But if they're concealed

and that's what this story is about, right, then how can you be intimidated by something that isn't even seen?

[oneshooter]

69. Because He/She/It believes that they are there, and so He/She/It is skeered. n/t

[WatsonT]

14. "We are not experiencing a crime wave in Maine "

And yet Maine has one of the highest rates of gun ownership, allows people to open carry, and does not have strict anti-gun laws.

And the Brady Campaign only gave them 1 star.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/bcam/stategunlaws/scorecard/StateRatings.pdf

[jpak]

16. Exactly - we do not need people running around with unlicensed concealed handguns in schools/polls

yup

[WatsonT]

25. Because that one thing would somehow reverse everything else

this trend of lots of guns/low crime would suddenly be reversed.

[jpak]

26. This bill will not be well received by Mane law enforcement

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

40. Because THAT matters, right?

[jpak]

44. It does and it undermines the stupid NRA argument that more concealed guns = more public safety

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

46. Have you ever talked to a beat cop about private citizens carrying legal weapons?

I bet you haven't.

[jpak]

48. Just wait for the public hearings on the republican POS bill

yup

[S_B_Jackson]

56. Why? Are you going to appear, and threaten to hold your breath

until this bill is dropped?

You realize that after you pass out, you'll start breathing again, right?
Still, I guess there might be some interest in watching how many shades of blue you turned.

Yup.

Yup.

Yup.

[jpak]

60. I just left messages with my state senator and rep. - both Dems. That's why we have them

yup

[rl6214]

66. Well done

while I oppose your point of view you are FINALLY DOING SOMETHING rather than whining, moaning, bitching and complaining.

[ManiacJoe]

41. What do you base that conclusion on?

[WatsonT]

52. Do you realize how often you change your arguments?

Almost as if you have a weak position that you are desperately trying to defend.

[WatsonT]

54. Also I think many cops would oppose

search and seizure restrictions, miranda rights, and various criteria for entering evidence in to a trial.

Do you still think we should do whatever the cops say?

[WatsonT]

55. Let's look at the arguments:

More guns will cause crime: actually Maine has a high gun ownership rate and low crime.

Guns kill children: actually guns are very low on the list of things that kill children.

Well the intent of guns is evil: actually the intent doesn't really matter whatsoever.

Well concealed guns cause more crime: actually concealed gun holders are generally the least likely to commit crimes.

Well cops won't like it: actually there is no evidence for that and even if there were it wouldn't be justification for limiting 2nd amendment rights.

Well I'm scared shitless of guns for some reason: well ok I'll give you that one.

[speltwon]

72. By actual line officers or by "chiefs associations"?

The former generally strongly support concealed carry. Chiefs, who are political animals, support whatever their masters (Mayors etc.) do, generally speaking.

[GreenStormCloud]

88. Every patrol officer I have ever talked with is in favor of civilian concealed carry.

Because of my job I know a bunch of Dallas Country Deputy Sheriffs. All support the CHL program. They love it when some criminal tries to rob the wrong person.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Concealed weapons don't intimidate.

Otherwise, they aren't concealed, are they?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. do you really think that your running commentary helps your cause?

do you really think that you are winning friends and influencing people?

[jpak]

12. I think that republican/teabagger gun laws are a threat to civil society and political discourse

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. I hate that you find the need to qualify your statements with such

childish terminology. I hate it when Dems and Repubs resort to such childishness but, thats just me. yup.

[jpak]

20. Nothing childsh about that - teabaggers bring loaded guns to Obama political rallies

yup

Man Carrying Loaded Assault Rifle Attends Obama Protest

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5248889-504083.html

PHOENIX (AP) About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday — the latest incident in which protesters have openly displayed firearms near the president.

Gun-rights advocates say they're exercising their constitutional right to bear arms and protest, while those who argue for more gun control say it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.

<more>

Gun-Toting Man Draws Scrutiny Outside Obama Town Hall

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5235445-503544.html

New Hampshire state law is pretty clear about protecting its citizens' rights to carry firearms in public. Carrying a pistol or revolver openly is permitted without a license; carrying a concealed weapon requires a license from the state or local police.

William Kostric took advantage of that law on Tuesday to show up outside President Obama's Portsmouth, N.H. town hall meeting and hold a sign saying "It Is Time To Water The Tree Of Liberty." That invokes a phrase from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

<more>

teabaggers and republicans are assholes

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. it would work both ways, don't you think?

sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

[jpak]

22. What horseshit - why bother with democracy ? Just have a bunch of armed warloards running things

just

plain

stupid

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. please define democracy...

[jpak]

31. A place where ballots - not bullets - rule

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. how simplistic of you and I guess the 2nd amendment has no place in your

reality...........

[jpak]

34. The Holy 2A like the other amendments has its limitts, guns are not meant to substitute for ballots

nope

[Tuesday Afternoon]

82. guns are NOT trying to be a substitute for ballots

only in jpak's world, yup.

[S_B_Jackson]

42. I seem to recall Quanell X and members of the New Black Panthers showing up armed at the Texas GOP

convention (state) in 2000. Other than a single incident with an elderly veteran who took exception and actually instigated physical contact, there weren't any problems.

No hystrionics, no screaming outrage about guns at a political even, no charges of "Intimidation!"

Would be nice if some persons grew up and engaged in rational, logical behavior.

[PavePusher]

58. There is no evidence the rifle was loaded....

and Kostric was some distance from the meeting.

Fail-post. Again.

[jpak]

61. Political intimidation is GOPbagger job 1

yup

[PavePusher]

62. Dodging easy refutations is jpak's job 1.

yup

[rl6214]

70. Reply to post #42

Does that apply here as well?

[S_B_Jackson]

75. Yes, it would be nice if our OP

could get past the hystrionics, past the wailing of "doom, doom is upon us!" and he engaged in adult behavior. I see in post #60, that our OP has contacted his representatives. This is a novel change, and to be commended....it's a start.

[rl6214]

68. So because he was making a statement about

his right to carry a firearm, and you oppose that right, anyone that does exercise that right is an asshole?

How progressive of you.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[rl6214]

67. Agreed 100%

Well said. If Dems could frame their arguements in facts and back them up instead of hand wringing and childish games so much more would be accomplished. Civil discourse, is that what I hear?

[Common Sense Party]

23. I think you mean "republic" bill and "republic" law.

Your schtick is slipping.

[jpak]

24. republics still suck - the schtick sticks

yup

[Common Sense Party]

27. The schtick stinks like week-old fish.

It's tired, it's worn, it's ineffectual. The yup's and "because I said so" illogic...you're not helping your cause, and you're not convincing anyone of anything.

Maybe it's time to try a new tactic.

I know! How about you actually DEBATE the facts?

[jpak]

29. Republicans suck

better?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. I am honestly worried about this person's grip on reality

I think they are off their meds.

[jpak]

33. Who? John Boehner? Completely off his meds

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/01/boehner-machine-gun-unions/

More republic gun imagery and violent wacko dog whistling

yup

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jpak]

47. Yes - it is absolutely insane to want to keep concealed weapons out of Maine schools and polls

insanity!

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

49. Washington State had no problems with firearms in polling places.

Why do you think it's a problem for Maine?

[Common Sense Party]

50. The maple syrup makes them jumpy. n/t

[armueller2001]

53. They get all antsy in their pantsy's

lol

[Tuesday Afternoon]

78. must be something in the water, reckon....

yup.

[AtheistCrusader]

81. Well, we did end up banning polling places. :)

[ManiacJoe]

84. Good call !

:evilgrin:
I have been voting my mail for so long I forgot that the state finally closed the last polling locations.

[rl6214]

71. I was almost going to give her credit

for dropping the schtick.

I guess not,

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[Ken_Fish]

77. Haah ha.. I will be sure to carry next time I go to Deweys for Chili while on vacay(nt)

[GreenStormCloud]

86. I carried last night when wife and I went out for pizza. N/T

[ileus]

80. Sounds like Maine is on the right path....good on them.

[old mark]

83. Good-it is about time that bit of fascism was overturned...We should do away with

licensing and registration requirements and have things revert to the pre 1968 Gun Control Act days. That was a terrible injustice and totally ineffective. The main thing it accomplished was to vastly increase the cost of guns and put much more money in the hands of gun dealers.

Bring back the good old days!

mark

[ProgressiveProfessor]

89. The permit law does indeed serve no legitimate purpose

If you qualify to own, you qualify to carry

yup yup