Pro-gun has Mary Rosh the Antis have Mr. Bellesiles

[demsrule4life]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/kstrassel/?id=110004653

[el_gato]

1. noone speaks for me

only I can do that

No matter what your particular position may be you
are setting yourself up to be a sucker if you let
someone else speak for you.

[demsrule4life]

2. Nicely put

[MrBenchley]

3. Another swell source, dems....

Why does the RKBA crowd always dredge up these turds from right wing cesspools?

[demsrule4life]

4. Free country

read what I want. :)

[MrBenchley]

5. Right wing crap

[RoeBear]

6. So do you deny the truth of the article...

...or not?

[demsrule4life]

7. Guess I have to find a link from an edu

site stating that he is a liar.

[MrBenchley]

8. What truth?

It's an idiotic rant from some right wing shitheel. Today's pantload also brings up the issue of John Kerry and prisoner sex changes, for no other reason than empty conservative venom.

Dredge up another turd frrom another right wing cesspool any time. It shows better than anything I could do that "gun rights" is just right wing extremist horseshit masquerading under a different sheet.

[el_gato]

9. you make me laugh

"that "gun rights" is just right wing extremist horseshit masquerading under a different sheet"

so if I own a gun I'm a sheet wearing right wing extremist. You see
bench it's your broad brush strokes that discredit you. If you
had any respect for those of us who believe in the right to own
a gun and are very dedicated to fighting against right wing extremism
I might take you seriously.

Of course I already know your answer "but your the one who hangs
with the (insert insulting adjectives here) rkba crowd."

As I have said before I really do feel sorry for you.
The world is a complex and multifaceted place. I'm sorry
you don't understand that.

[MrBenchley]

10. Gee, gato

You guys are the one dredging turds out of right wing cesspools like "Opinion Journal," not me.

"The world is a complex and multifaceted place."
And most of it ended up on the NRA enemy list.

[el_gato]

11. ha ha you did just as I predicted in replying to my post

aww but gee gato your the one (insert potty talk here)

funny and sad all at the same time

you know it's pretty clear you don't even read anything
i have said in this thread. hell go back and read my very first
post in this thread.

"aww but gee gato (more references to fecal matter etc.)"

[RoeBear]

12. So do I put you down for a 'No'?

I saw an attack of the Journal, but is Bellesiles someone you would use to support your point of view?

[MrBenchley]

13. You can't put anybody down

using this tired right wing horseshit....

[demsrule4life]

14. This should be an approved MrB site

same fucking conclusion.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/s_99961.html

[slackmaster]

18. Genetic Fallacy

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/genefall.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/genetic-fallacy.html

http://www.friesian.com/genetic.htm

:smoke:

[iverglas]

15. here's an idea

Why doesn't somebody read the goddamn thing for themselves, instead of (or at the very least in addition to) reading ANYBODY else's opinion about it???

I read the thing in the initial post in the thread, and knew no more about what the allegedly offending author had said in either of his works than I knew when I started.

Maybe somebody else could tell me, from reading that thing, what Bellesiles' books said, and what was wrong about what they said.

Or maybe, if I actually want to know what they said, I'll go beg, borrow, rent or buy them. Amazing, luddite, pre-internet concept, I know, but it has proved useful for several decades now.

.

[demsrule4life]

16. Kind of hard to buy them unless

you can find one of the used market. To put it simply he wrote a book stating there wasn't much gun ownership during the formative years of our country. It was the new bible of the anti crowd. Several historians investigated his claims and concluded they were false. His book was taken out of print and he lost his job at the university he was working at.

[MrBenchley]

17. Soft Skull Press just reissued it

they also published the biography of George Bush that outlined his drinking and drug use....

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/culture/Horns_and_Halos.htm

http://www.softskull.com/

"Beginning with the European tradition from which the American colonists emerged, Bellesiles indicates that ordinary people had virtually no access to or training in the use of firearms; it was swords, axes, and fire that were most commonly used against the Indians, and the few guns that did exist were kept under strict control by colonial governments. By the mid-1850s technological advances and the soaring gun production and industrialization encouraged by the Civil War era transformed the gun from a seldom-needed tool to a perceived necessity and fostered an emotional connection between man and weapon.
There was an immediate outcry from the anti-gun-control lobby. Questions qrose as to his research in probate records and the political firestorm expanded to include a committee of scholars and historians who devoted months to checking Bellesiles's footnotes in the archives where he did his research—a practice that is extremely unusual in historical scholarship—and found evidence of sloppy research in five pages.
In this revised edition, Bellesiles answers his academic critics, providing updated research addressing their legitimate concerns, and finding that the underlying thesis of his book remains as solid as ever."

http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-07-7

Worth noting that the entire fuss is over five pages supposedly detailing probate records in an appendix.....not the basic work.

You might be interested in this, too....

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,566717,00.html

[slackmaster]

19. Soft Skull Press

If the shoe fits...

:smoke:

[MrSandman]

20. Is this a front for Brady and VPC?

Checkout the links.

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,566717,00.h...

[MrBenchley]

21. Hahahahahahaha!!

Join Together is a project of the Boston University School of Public Health.

"About Join Together Online

Join Together Online (JTO) has long been a pioneer in using the Internet to support people working on substance abuse and gun violence issues. Every month, three-quarters of a million JTO web pages are viewed by over 350,000 people -- users of this site, subscribers to our e-mail news services, and visitors to websites in our syndication network. "